Dave Patenaude's Offense

85Escape

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
472
About 100000000000000% less to me, not sure why a horribly embarrassing loss would hold the same importance as a championship to anyone who loves GT
Well, either past things matter or they don't. You can't logically just pick and choose. Past facts either matter or they don't. We lost to the Citadel. It's a matter of record. We've won four nattys, it's a matter of record (well I guess some stupid people choose to debate one of them, but piss on'em.)

I'm just saying we can't say that losing the Citadel isn't relevant to who we are as a program and then say that winning a natty 100 years ago is relevant. At least, that's where my intellectual integrity draws a line.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
500
Well, either past things matter or they don't. You can't logically just pick and choose. Past facts either matter or they don't. We lost to the Citadel. It's a matter of record. We've won four nattys, it's a matter of record (well I guess some stupid people choose to debate one of them, but piss on'em.)

I'm just saying we can't say that losing the Citadel isn't relevant to who we are as a program and then say that winning a natty 100 years ago is relevant. At least, that's where my intellectual integrity draws a line.

I can’t tell if you’re serious. I hope not. If you can’t differentiate between a national championship and a random loss in a bad year then I don’t know where to take the conversation.

Can you tell me about how much losing to Louisiana Tech in 97 or Northern Illinois in 2003 means to Bama? Those losses matter as much as all their national championships? Even the ones from a long time ago?

No way. Nobody is saying that we shouldn’t have lost. The point is, nobody (besides most GT fans) gave a crap about us going into last year other than the buzz Collins created. We’d become an afterthought in the college football landscape. We were transitioning from an option offense that led us to great things but then obscurity and were expected to suck.

Most people’s reaction to us losing to the Citadel last year (outside of our fan base and maybe some dwags) was something to the extent of: “hmm.” If they even cared at all. That’s the point being made. We lost, but nobody but Tech fans care. It sucked, but we were supposed to suck so it wasn’t that shocking to the rest of the world and nobody cared.

On the other hand, everyone cares about national championships. So you can logically pick and chose what matters. Logically, a national championship carries more weight than a game played by two bad teams in the middle of September in 2019.

Now if there is a trend of losing to far inferior teams or no signs of improvement, you can logically say it is relevant to who we are as a program.
 

herb

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
937
Why exactly does The citadel loss matter now?

We may not look at this in the same way, and that's ok. I have a good many friends who went to Citadel and I hear about it a lot. In terms of recruiting, I agree it matters not. But the team means more to me than who are the recruits for next year.
 

85Escape

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
472
I can’t tell if you’re serious. I hope not. If you can’t differentiate between a national championship and a random loss in a bad year then I don’t know where to take the conversation.

Can you tell me about how much losing to Louisiana Tech in 97 or Northern Illinois in 2003 means to Bama? Those losses matter as much as all their national championships? Even the ones from a long time ago?

No way. Nobody is saying that we shouldn’t have lost. The point is, nobody (besides most GT fans) gave a crap about us going into last year other than the buzz Collins created. We’d become an afterthought in the college football landscape. We were transitioning from an option offense that led us to great things but then obscurity and were expected to suck.

Most people’s reaction to us losing to the Citadel last year (outside of our fan base and maybe some dwags) was something to the extent of: “hmm.” If they even cared at all. That’s the point being made. We lost, but nobody but Tech fans care. It sucked, but we were supposed to suck so it wasn’t that shocking to the rest of the world and nobody cared.

On the other hand, everyone cares about national championships. So you can logically pick and chose what matters. Logically, a national championship carries more weight than a game played by two bad teams in the middle of September in 2019.

Now if there is a trend of losing to far inferior teams or no signs of improvement, you can logically say it is relevant to who we are as a program.
I'm just trying to say let's be intellectually honest. To say that that Citadel loss 'doesn't matter' depends, I suppose, on the existential question of the meaning of 'matter.' In the grand scheme of things nothing matters, as we'll either explode or freeze in the end. ;)

But to just ignore the fact that we lost to The Citadel last year as a point of data in the question of 'how is this coaching staff doing' just seriously undermines any argument doing so. It IS a point of data in that conversation and, therefore, does 'matter.' In fact, in with regards to the question of does it 'matter' when it comes to the debate about this coaching staff it matters way more than a 1917 or 1928 Natty.

For the record, I think this coaching staff is doing very well even with the fact that their loss to The Citadel was a black eye that should be entered into the equation when we evaluate them as professionals. Let's just be honest about the facts here.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,124
Well, either past things matter or they don't. You can't logically just pick and choose. Past facts either matter or they don't. We lost to the Citadel. It's a matter of record. We've won four nattys, it's a matter of record (well I guess some stupid people choose to debate one of them, but piss on'em.)

I'm just saying we can't say that losing the Citadel isn't relevant to who we are as a program and then say that winning a natty 100 years ago is relevant. At least, that's where my intellectual integrity draws a line.
Is Florida’s loss to Georgia Southern relevant to their program? Is UCF’s loss to Furman in 2015 relevant to their program? Is Ole Miss’ loss to Jacksonville State relevant? Hell, is Tennessee’s loss to Georgia State relevant? Or their 3 straight losses to Vandy?

One random loss to a bad team means nothing in the grand scheme of things. It’s just a blemish on a record and something opposing fans can bring up every once in a while. Touting national championships paints a picture that those heights are achievable again. Bringing up random losses really has no impact.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
500
I'm just trying to say let's be intellectually honest. To say that that Citadel loss 'doesn't matter' depends, I suppose, on the existential question of the meaning of 'matter.' In the grand scheme of things nothing matters, as we'll either explode or freeze in the end. ;)

But to just ignore the fact that we lost to The Citadel last year as a point of data in the question of 'how is this coaching staff doing' just seriously undermines any argument doing so. It IS a point of data in that conversation and, therefore, does 'matter.' In fact, in with regards to the question of does it 'matter' when it comes to the debate about this coaching staff it matters way more than a 1917 or 1928 Natty.

For the record, I think this coaching staff is doing very well even with the fact that their loss to The Citadel was a black eye that should be entered into the equation when we evaluate them as professionals. Let's just be honest about the facts here.

I get your overall point. I think we were talking about different things.

The loss is on the coaching staff. It did happen. You also have to take into account (which you’ve done) what’s happened since then and what we were trying to do last year. We obviously wanted to win, but sacrificed potential wins in order to begin implementing and showcasing the new offense and direction we were/are heading.

I have no doubt that we could’ve just ran some base option plays and most likely moved the ball at will against them last year. During the game i was hoping we would’ve just ran more of it with Tobias when they game was tight so we wouldn’t lose. It is what it is as one esteemed coach used to say.

We are light years ahead of where we were last year offensively now and continuing to improve.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,300
The citadel game may matter to you or it may not. That's a personal thing for the individual to decide.

However in terms of evaluating the staff it is pretty much irrelevant going forward as is the entirety of last year. Unless you have an agenda to push, you're not going to draw significant conclusions about a staff based on what is done during a year where such a huge transition happened. You judge coaching staffs based on how they are in a relatively normal circumstance, not in an extremely abnormal one. Because going forward it doesn't really matter how good a staff we have at switching from the triple option to a normal offense. We're not going to be doing that going forward so why would it be relevant?

Some people will of course still try to use it because they had their mind decided before Collins coached a game here and are just looking for things to back that conclusion up.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,549
I still remember the Citadel loss because of how poorly coached we looked. I've seen some very bad Tech losses in the past - believe it - but we never had a "juice box" on the sidelines (Thank God that's gone) or sloppy play for almost an entire game or open taunting of opponents or a variety of stupid and needless penalties or … well, you get the picture. There's nothing wrong with losing to an inferior team, especially if you give them the game, but that game will stick in my craw for some time. I literally couldn't believe what I was seeing down on the sidelines.

The redeeming trend is now showing up, however. The coaching staff seems to be in better control of the players and the games. Some of them are visibly learning how to coach better as well. I now think things are looking up and Collins and co. may take the bad taste out of my mouth this year, even if we only win 3 - 4 games. I want us to win, but it matters a lot to me how we do it.
 

LibertyTurns

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,212
Why exactly does The citadel loss matter now?
You all must work with women. At
my company college football dominates discussions in the fall- current and future. To be honest it comes up regularly the rest of the year as well just not as much. Anything you can make fun of another program with is fair game. You all must be talking about wrapping paper or some other crap where you work.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
461
Some of you are just funny. The only thing that will be remembered about 2019 is that LSU was unbeatable and pulled the Natty and Heisman. No one cares about any GT win or loss or UGA wins or losses or Utah State‘s wins or losses. Congrats to the Citadel for beating GT. They should build monuments on their campus. But I doubt they will because they finished 6-6 and finished with a 20 point loss to Wofford. But according to some I should remember the 1988 loss to Maryland the same as I should remember the win over Nebraska. You know what I remember, that it took Bobby Ross two and a half years to turn the roster and get us into the top tier.
 

85Escape

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
472
Some of you are just funny. The only thing that will be remembered about 2019 is that LSU was unbeatable and pulled the Natty and Heisman. No one cares about any GT win or loss or UGA wins or losses or Utah State‘s wins or losses. Congrats to the Citadel for beating GT. They should build monuments on their campus. But I doubt they will because they finished 6-6 and finished with a 20 point loss to Wofford. But according to some I should remember the 1988 loss to Maryland the same as I should remember the win over Nebraska. You know what I remember, that it took Bobby Ross two and a half years to turn the roster and get us into the top tier.
It is one of my serious goals in life to make people smile, so thanks!
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,162
Well, either past things matter or they don't. You can't logically just pick and choose. Past facts either matter or they don't. We lost to the Citadel. It's a matter of record. We've won four nattys, it's a matter of record (well I guess some stupid people choose to debate one of them, but piss on'em.)

I'm just saying we can't say that losing the Citadel isn't relevant to who we are as a program and then say that winning a natty 100 years ago is relevant. At least, that's where my intellectual integrity draws a line.
Past Championships really aren’t relevant to current teams, I mean hell look at LSU this season...i understand your point of view but the Citadel loss is of course a part of our history now but I don’t want to keep dredging it up and thinking about it personally.
 

85Escape

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
472
Past Championships really aren’t relevant to current teams, I mean hell look at LSU this season...i understand your point of view but the Citadel loss is of course a part of our history now but I don’t want to keep dredging it up and thinking about it personally.
Me either! I was just saying you can't say "It doesn't matter" and be taken seriously. Of course it matters...but it matters as motivation not condemnation.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
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4,009
See what I mean @slugboy
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