Create some plays for offense

[33jacket]

Two things:
1) we do have plays for AB or WR to throw a pass
2) There is a necessary difference in blocking as a consequence of illegal receiver downfield rule. Our OL cannot get to the next level as some do on most option plays.

We had one of the most efficient scoring offenses in the country just two years ago. I think last year's struggles rest more on poor play than a lack of innovation on O.

Your last sentence is 100 percent correct. However I would argue some innovation on O may allow for easier play when you have guys struggling. There are aspects of our O as is today that quite simply require 3-4 year guys to be able to execute properly. We are really seeing this in the AB and BB positions in leiu of not having nfl talent there. I just wonder sometimes if paul can do some different things to help that when guys are green. It seems to me our O can have more there to help. So i actually agree with both of you. There is a stagnation aspect to our O we have seen all of Ken monken and bohannon change and add too or tweak from pauls base set that I think helps. Navy is the best example. They do do things that help. At the same time what we do can work it just seems to need more experienced timing to do that. Now. I am talking about taking a b offense and moving it to an a. Or bplus to a. Not c to a. Or d to b.

Defense would be d to c discussion or bminus.

 

[iceeater1969]

Two things:
1) we do have plays for AB or WR to throw a pass
2) There is a necessary difference in blocking as a consequence of illegal receiver downfield rule. Our OL cannot get to the next level as some do on most option plays.

We had one of the most efficient scoring offenses in the country just two years ago. I think last year's struggles rest more on poor play than a lack of innovation on O.

At time of coach's new contract award I think we all were hopeful that we would project at least some of 14 into most of the future. Above we showed the orin run where the fefense lb and safety stand 3 6 yards down fieldc and wait to challenge the blocker. The same style of defense by alcorn and Tulane worked equally bad.

With the pressing defense -OF COURSE we need some better coaching of the regular plays. The goal is to get 5-6 yards but if defense is sold out to play GET 2 instead of MINUS 2.
We must make them pay if if they sell out to the LOS. Some level of effectiveness at PLAY EXECUTION AND NEW PLAYS ARE NEEDED

 

[AE 87]

Your last sentence is 100 percent correct. However I would argue some innovation on O may allow for easier play when you have guys struggling. There are aspects of our O as is today that quite simply require 3-4 year guys to be able to execute properly. We are really seeing this in the AB and BB positions in leiu of not having nfl talent there. I just wonder sometimes if paul can do some different things to help that when guys are green. It seems to me our O can have more there to help. So i actually agree with both of you. There is a stagnation aspect to our O we have seen all of Ken monken and bohannon change and add too or tweak from pauls base set that I think helps. Navy is the best example. They do do things that help. At the same time what we do can work it just seems to need more experienced timing to do that. Now. I am talking about taking a b offense and moving it to an a. Or bplus to a. Not c to a. Or d to b.

Defense would be d to c discussion or bminus.

I could not disagree more with some of this. For example, Lynn Griffin was one of our most productive A-Backs at the end of last year. He averaged over 10 yds a carry in our last two games, and he spent the first 4 or 5 games as a DB. I just don't think you need that much time in that position.

B-Back last year was beat up, all three guys that played, often played hurt reportedly. However, that position requires the OL to do the right thing, and I think that's where we struggled.

It doesn't matter what you do with the OL, if the guard doesn't look up and see that the DT is on his left shoulder rather than his right shoulder, he's going to blow the play.

In other words, I'm not convinced that last year's problem was a matter of difficulty of scheme or lack of innovation in the scheme as it was guys not dialed it for whatever reason.

I still don't think that the comparison between 2014 vs Tulane and 2015 vs Tulane is insignificant. Our O dominated this year. Then, our OL coaches reportedly tried to play around with blocking assignments, apparently to make it easier on guys who had trouble scooping, and the results went to hell.

 

[33jacket]

I could not disagree more with some of this. For example, Lynn Griffin was one of our most productive A-Backs at the end of last year. He averaged over 10 yds a carry in our last two games, and he spent the first 4 or 5 games as a DB. I just don't think you need that much time in that position.

B-Back last year was beat up, all three guys that played, often played hurt reportedly. However, that position requires the OL to do the right thing, and I think that's where we struggled.

It doesn't matter what you do with the OL, if the guard doesn't look up and see that the DT is on his left shoulder rather than his right shoulder, he's going to blow the play.

In other words, I'm not convinced that last year's problem was a matter of difficulty of scheme or lack of innovation in the scheme as it was guys not dialed it for whatever reason.

I still don't think that the comparison between 2014 vs Tulane and 2015 vs Tulane is insignificant. Our O dominated this year. Then, our OL coaches reportedly tried to play around with blocking assignments, apparently to make it easier on guys who had trouble scooping, and the results went to hell.

Yrds per carry means nothing to me for ab or bb evaluation. I couldnt read past your post. I got stuck on that point alone. You may have had good points. But i am so stuck on yards per carry point. A old lady in a wheel chair can darn near avg 5 yds per carry as a well positioned ab in this offense. Thats the design. The impact the ab and bb have to the overall success of the offense when they dont touch the ball is key and takes a ton of time to learn. Their ability to be physical without the ball. Sell the run in pass. Block. Option route. Etc etc etc takes time in system and we are best on O when those guys are 3-4 year guys. Its a tough spot to master and when they are young and inexperienced plays are limited and the perimeter is awful. So i give you 2015

 

[chewybaka]

It was 2 years ago.

That was fun to watch thank you!

 

[AE 87]

Yrds per carry means nothing to me for ab or bb evaluation. I couldnt read past your post. I got stuck on that point alone. You may have had good points. But i am so stuck on yards per carry point. A old lady in a wheel chair can darn near avg 5 yds per carry as a well positioned ab in this offense. Thats the design. The impact the ab and bb have to the overall success of the offense when they dont touch the ball is key and takes a ton of time to learn. Their ability to be physical without the ball. Sell the run in pass. Block. Option route. Etc etc etc takes time in system and we are best on O when those guys are 3-4 year guys. Its a tough spot to master and when they are young and inexperienced plays are limited and the perimeter is awful. So i give you 2015

LOL. "Data schmata. I'm a @dressedcheeseside wannabe. My wag opinion is golden."

Keep trolling 33.

 

[InsideLB]

We have fast tackles so I'd like to see a quick screen into the short side to MLD and pull Klock to level the boom on the CB.

 

[InsideLB]

I'm in the camp that AB and to a lesser extent BB take some time to learn particularly what to do without the ball. Of course it also will depend on both the individual's ability to pick things up quickly and the play of other units. It's hard to gain confidence and get in a rhythm when other things are going wrong to foil the play.

That's to say the better a player is and the better the supporting cast the more plug and play any offense or position gets. Last year d/t injuries, new WRs, and sketchy line play the ABs struggled as a whole. Perimeter blocking was a big issue.

Thats why IMO these ideas are hotly debated...there are defensible positions based on truth for the competing perspectives. Really it's some mixture of "all of the above".

 

[InsideLB]

Will add that I see AB group having a better year d/t more experience, competition (Jarrett, JJ Green, hopefully Cottrell added to the mix), and more experienced blocking mates at WR. Plus hard to see the injury bug hitting as hard.

A guy like Lynch is now more of an old hand who can teach, and MLD will take some perspective of what the AB blocking assignments are to WR.

Interested to see how Mills progresses at BB. Just seems like a really smooth athlete who can do a lot things above average and has great ball security and physical maturity right out of the box. IMO potential to be a very foundational player like a Laskey/Days, but for more years.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I'm in the camp that AB and to a lesser extent BB take some time to learn particularly what to do without the ball. Of course it also will depend on both the individual's ability to pick things up quickly and the play of other units. It's hard to gain confidence and get in a rhythm when other things are going wrong to foil the play.

That's to say the better a player is and the better the supporting cast the more plug and play any offense or position gets. Last year d/t injuries, new WRs, and sketchy line play the ABs struggled as a whole. Perimeter blocking was a big issue.

Thats why IMO these ideas are hotly debated...there are defensible positions based on truth for the competing perspectives. Really it's some mixture of "all of the above".

Agree, but I think mastery of the position is born of repetition. Blocking in space is not easy, just knowing where to go and what to do is just the start of it.

Additionally, every postion unit is either aided or hurt by the proficiency, or lack thereof, of the others. the Abacks job is exponentially easier if the Bback is ripping off sizeable chunks of yardage consistently on the dive. Of course, the OL making blocks makes everybody's job easier, but their job is made easier by correct qb reads and quick and decisive Bbacks. Wr's who catch contested balls in man coverage force safeties to back off the LOS which helps the ground game which forces corners to bite which opens up passing lanes.

Our O is so interconnected and interdependent it's not funny. It's what makes it so much fun to watch, or conversely, so painful to witness if one or more unit is struggling.

 

[g0lftime]

OL inconsistency:
1) players not athletic enough for their blocking responsibilites
2) blocking scheme is too complex to execute consistently
3) defenses have adjusted to take away some key elements of this offense
4) majority of practicing for run blocking does not translate well into execution of pass blocking
5) subpar OL coaching has translated into subpar results on the field
6) OL depth is highly exposed with injuries to starters
7) offense requires perfect execution, e.g. one whiff and the play blows up
8) not one or two main problems but combination of the above

 

[dressedcheeseside]

OL inconsistency:
1) players not athletic enough for their blocking responsibilites
2) blocking scheme is too complex to execute consistently
3) defenses have adjusted to take away some key elements of this offense
4) majority of practicing for run blocking does not translate well into execution of pass blocking
5) subpar OL coaching has translated into subpar results on the field
6) OL depth is highly exposed with injuries to starters
7) offense requires perfect execution, e.g. one whiff and the play blows up
8) not one or two main problems but combination of the above

1) Maybe last year to a degree. This year's group are plenty athletic
2) Hasn't been a problem in the past.
3) agree, but we have counters to their adjustments. The question is are we able to execute the counters.
4) agree to a point. Our pass blocking looks loads better when our run game is on point, however. When second level defenders have to sit back and cannot bum rush gaps, it's amazing how much easier it is to pass block. Passing when we want to as opposed to when we have to helps this big time, too.
5) Maybe, but our OL coaching looked pretty good in '14 and it's the same guy.
6) same for 90% of OL's in the nation
7) disagree. There are plenty of examples of big to moderate gains on plays where one or more assignment is blown. Just ask @Longestday.
8) agree, multifactorial problem means there's no easy fix. Having proficient skill play goes a long, long way to better OL execution and you didn't even mention that.

 

[WrexRacer]

Tight flexbone formation. Motion AB to wide out position (wide). If LB covers AB, throw deep. If CB covers AB, run rocket toss to wr from the single side or inside AB from the trips side to the open side of the field depending on where the safety lines up.

This would probably take some though to make sure the wideout AB is eligible.

 

[1939hotmagic]

From last December, a 10-minute video profile of Arkansas HS coach Kevin Kelley, the coach who never punts, always onside kicks, always goes for it on fourth down, and now is incorporating freedom to downfield lateral -- think rugby, though such wasn't uncommon in American college football in the '30s among more innovative coaches: http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-high-school-football-coach-who-never-punts/

 

[zhavenor]

So I was at work today on a brake and this play came to me. It's off rocket motion and counter tray blocking but instead of an A back or the QB getting it it is a give to the b back away from the motion. The qb reverse pivots and fake the rocket toss while the b back freezes in his stance takes a step towards the direction of the motion and then receives the hand off and follows the pulling guard and tackle. The non motion a back comes down and cuts off backside pursuit. What do you guys think.

 

[AE 87]

So I was at work today on a brake and this play came to me. It's off rocket motion and counter tray blocking but instead of an A back or the QB getting it it is a give to the b back away from the motion. The qb reverse pivots and fake the rocket toss while the b back freezes in his stance takes a step towards the direction of the motion and then receives the hand off and follows the pulling guard and tackle. The non motion a back comes down and cuts off backside pursuit. What do you guys think.

Short yardage?

Iiuc, if he's following the pulling OL, he's running into the flow of the D without the benefit of the speed to the edge.

 

[zhavenor]

Short yardage?

Iiuc, if he's following the pulling OL, he's running into the flow of the D without the benefit of the speed to the edge.

I think I said it wrong. The b back and the pulling ol are going away from the rocket motion. To say it differently they are going towards where the a back who went in rocket motion started from.

 

[Milwaukee]

Quick slants. That is all.

 

[vandervoort]

Quick pass over the middle to Trey Klock acting as tight end

 

[AE 87]

Quick pass over the middle to Trey Klock acting as tight end

We'd have to change his number and add an OT and remove an ABack. They might see it coming.