CPJ discusses QBs

Ash

Ramblin' Wreck
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684
AMEN!
IF IF IF the Oline functions semi-well,we can muddle through on OFF even with new QBs and avg backs.If they don't,I shudder.Think VT/BYU game-at times.

This yr could be the biggest house of cards since TW's first yr.The Oline crashes.The Off stops.Puts the DEf back on field.The Def can't stop run so teams keep ball and wear out DEf.
Then we get ball back with "cold" Off and the process repeats itself.

My buddy is high on off season optimism. "JT is going to run all over everyone". I keep bringing up this scenario, pointing out no matter who is talking snaps they can't perform at a high level if they are running for their life because the OL isn't blocking. Our D is improving, but can't win games for us if they are going to be gassed in the 3rd. What you described is not out of the realm of possibility.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
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Vad ain't the boogie man now. And he didn't play awful. Had a few great moments. Some of those passes in the UGA game for instance. He sure didn't play our base well though. And I think others are just as capable of making the throws he tossed vs UGA.
 

jacketup

Helluva Engineer
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This is true, to some extent. Our O was definitely down by the standards of previous years. But it still has to be put into some context. Clemson had a very good defense last year. Only U[sic]Ga, 35, FSU, 51, and Ohio State, 35, scored more on CU than the 31 that we put up, matching the 31 put up by SCar. Even when we were scoring in the second half, CU scored TDs in 4 straight possessions.


Here's some context: We scored 14 of those points after the game was no longer in doubt, and not against Clemson's "very good defense." The score was 41-17 halfway through the third quarter, and Clemson substituted freely.

More context: Clemson allowed at least 31 against 5 of its 12 FBS opponents--almost half.

What is your point again?
 

AE 87

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Past experience would indicate that the possibilty you are excited about will be limited (at best) by who is calling the plays. I, too, would like to see us burning secondaries more than we do, but I am jaded about the chances of my dream becoming a reality. Especially if we "get back to basics" and are somewhat more successful at running the football. For us it seems if we run and are successful, we run some more.

I apologize for not being more clear. I'm wasn't talking about necessarily throwing more. I was talking about the passes we throw already being more effective because they get to the receiver quicker and give the DBs less time to recover.

I know I may be in the minority, but I also actually believe CPJ when he ties frequency of passing, to some extent, to how well we pass. Obviously, we're going to be a run-first, run-mostly team, but we're not even going to change the ratio if we're not successful at passing. If CPJ has confidence we can be successful, I wouldn't be surprised to see the ratio change some.
 

AE 87

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Here's some context: We scored 14 of those points after the game was no longer in doubt, and not against Clemson's "very good defense." The score was 41-17 halfway through the third quarter, and Clemson substituted freely.

More context: Clemson allowed at least 31 against 5 of its 12 FBS opponents--almost half.

What is your point again?

Four of those five teams were ranked in the top 10 when they played Clemson. We were the fifth. Two of them ended the season in the top 5, a third at #12. Still, since they only played 11 FBS opponents, it is closer to half of them.

With 12 min left in the 3rd qtr, it was 27-17, still within reach. That 17 points in just over 1 half was more than WF, NC St, Syracuse, BC, and UVA scored in their entire games. Then again, NC State held Clemson to 26, and BC held them to 24.

Hey, I know it's a live question whether we would have been able to score those points during the last third of the game if we were still in it. Again, I agreed that our offense was not as efficient in 2013 as it was in 2011 or even 2012. I was responding to a particular point raised about the degree to which the offense was to blame for putting the D under stress.
 

iceeater1969

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I apologize for not being more clear. I'm wasn't talking about necessarily throwing more. I was talking about the passes we throw already being more effective because they get to the receiver quicker and give the DBs less time to recover.

I know I may be in the minority, but I also actually believe CPJ when he ties frequency of passing, to some extent, to how well we pass. Obviously, we're going to be a run-first, run-mostly team, but we're not even going to change the ratio if we're not successful at passing. If CPJ has confidence we can be successful, I wouldn't be surprised to see the ratio change some.
Agree completely with the observation that JT has quick release and when combined with indisputable quick feet will set up possibilities for highly efficient passing attack. Hope he gets his reads straight. Byerly will give good competition.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Now after agreeing CPJ may have stuck with him too long; I wonder what fan reaction would have been if he'd have pulled him? If he had benched Vad and Vad had transferred....I think there would be a completely different hell storm brewing over that among the fanbase.
You got that right. The haters are gonna hate no matter what he does, I don't care what happens. We can win the natty and the haters are still gonna hate.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Vad was not as bad as you remember (Yes he did still take a slide with one yard to go for the 1st).
I think the OL was as bad as you remember (or worse than you remember because everyone is always watching the QB).
JT might have caught up to Vad had he been given the in game snaps from day 1.
Without the real game snaps, Vad was better than JT, as a whole, throughout the year.

No doubt in my mind, most of the offensive issues are OL first and QB second.

You can be excited for the season, but neither QB will be the Moses to lead us to the promised land. The OL is the biggest question mark, the biggest issue last year, and either QB will work their type of magic if the OL improves. If the OL performs subpar, then Byerly is the way to go as he will push through the trash better.
The OL takes waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much of the blame, imo. Yeah, they weren't as good as expected, but they didn't suck as bad as everyone likes to believe. The main issue was at RT. It's like the weak link in a chain. A healthy Morgan Bailey would have made a woooooooooooooooorld of difference. We also missed Uzzi a good deal. Not because Shaq was such a step down, but because we suddenly lost high quality depth at the guard position. We also lacked high quality depth at the center position with the loss of Burden. Finch had to play himself into game shape early in the year due to recovery and then took way more snaps later in the year than he would have if we had had Burden. Also, we lost Beno for a good chunk of games due to injury as well.

Be that as it may, we still would have fared much better had we had a qb that could run our base offense. Note I didn't say well, just run the damn thing AT ALL.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Here's some context: We scored 14 of those points after the game was no longer in doubt, and not against Clemson's "very good defense." The score was 41-17 halfway through the third quarter, and Clemson substituted freely.

More context: Clemson allowed at least 31 against 5 of its 12 FBS opponents--almost half.

What is your point again?
Ummmm.... the deficit was 10 points 5 minutes into the 3rd qtr. Then our awesome D let them run the length of the field in two minutes to kill the momentum our offense had just earned on the opening drive of the half. Oh, then the D let them score td's on their next 3 consecutive possessions.
 

Treb1982

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Ummmm.... the deficit was 10 points 5 minutes into the 3rd qtr. Then our awesome D let them run the length of the field in two minutes to kill the momentum our offense had just earned on the opening drive of the half. Oh, then the D let them score td's on their next 3 consecutive possessions.

I was at that game and seemed to be only 1 of about 300 that were there supporting the Yellow Jackets. I think its safe to say that both sides of the ball didn't help the other out. Our offense/special teams mad key mistakes which allowed them to get to a 20-0 lead. Then our defense could stop anything when our offense finally got it going and the score was 27-17.
 

Longestday

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RT was the main issues followed by LT. I re-watched most of the season and the OL was pretty bad up front and not very good on down field blocking. Everything is relative. What is pretty bad.... not Virginia bad for sure but not FSU good.

Vad strung out plays, true. I agree with this statement. The OL had issues overall and RT was the biggest issue.

JT did not come in and all the sudden we are scoring every possession. Don't get me wrong, I think a new QB will help.

The right answer is a good executing OL with a good executing QB working together with good executing ABs and WRs.

I will say that the offense will not be much better in 2014 if the OL does not improve no mater what QB plays. Deal with those false starts and get to that LB.
 

takethepoints

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We started the year with the most experienced OL we had ever had and one that could have been great. That OL never played a down due to injury and Alford quitting the sport. By the fourth game we were playing our preseason 3rd string OT (Roberts) and had moved our most experienced OG (Jackson) out to OT as well. Oh, and Devine, who could have helped, got hurt and was out just long enough to make it irrational to blow his redshirt. As I've said here before, the wonder of 2013 was that, despite all this and a QB who really couldn't run the TO effectively, we ended up rushing for 293 ypg. And people call for Sewak's head!

All we can do is hope and pray that we don't go through that again. If we can get our staring OL coming out of fall practice to stay intact on the field for the season (or, more realistically, if we only loose one of them and not for long), then I think we'll do just fine. The players are there; it's just a matter of giving them enough experience playing with each other. OLs "jelling" is a concern for all teams, but it is absolutely vital for us. Getting the players used to working with each other and to the O at full tilt is what we need and I hope and pray (again) we can get.
 

Ggee87

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Thats a good point and I hadnt thought of it like that. I guess for me its off the "eye-test" method and that game along with VT, BYU, and Ole Miss were especially frustrating because it either took a while to get the offense going or just never did, and that goes back to our offense performing more inefficiently compared to other years. I do think our defense last year would have performed better had our offense not stalled as much as it appeared to have. JMHO
I agree with this 100%. Had the offense not stalled so much last season. The stats would have been much better looking for our D. Which wasnt too bad to begin with. Playmakers at QB and BB will make all the dofference in the world. The Oline gets alot of blame for the bad season... but they had alot of injuries and no depth.
 

AE 87

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We started the year with the most experienced OL we had ever had and one that could have been great. That OL never played a down due to injury and Alford quitting the sport. By the fourth game we were playing our preseason 3rd string OT (Roberts) and had moved our most experienced OG (Jackson) out to OT as well. Oh, and Devine, who could have helped, got hurt and was out just long enough to make it irrational to blow his redshirt. As I've said here before, the wonder of 2013 was that, despite all this and a QB who really couldn't run the TO effectively, we ended up rushing for 293 ypg. And people call for Sewak's head!

All we can do is hope and pray that we don't go through that again. If we can get our staring OL coming out of fall practice to stay intact on the field for the season (or, more realistically, if we only loose one of them and not for long), then I think we'll do just fine. The players are there; it's just a matter of giving them enough experience playing with each other. OLs "jelling" is a concern for all teams, but it is absolutely vital for us. Getting the players used to working with each other and to the O at full tilt is what we need and I hope and pray (again) we can get.

I'm not sure where your statistics are from, but here are some from cfbstats (against the conference):
Year .... YPG rush (att/g, ave) ... YPG pass (att/g, y/att)
2008 ...... 264.13 (49.63, 5.32) ........ 100.5 (12.4, 8.1)
2009 ...... 315.11 (58.56, 5.38) ......... 111.8 (11.9, 9.4)
2010 ...... 314.13 (56.75, 5.55) ........... 91.9 (12.8, 7.2)
2011 ....... 284.50 (55.63, 5.11) ......... 107.3 (12.8, 8.4)
2012 ....... 325.89 (59.1, 5.51) ........... 128.1 (12.3, 10.4)
2013 ....... 305.50 (56.5, 5.41) .......... 114.5 (15.1, 7.6)

Now, obviously the strength of our conference schedule has varied, so I wouldn't use these stats alone to compare our offenses. Still, it seems to me that these stats make it hard to argue either that our OL has collapsed or that opposing D's have "caught up."

That being said, the 2011 stats seem really odd. In overall drive efficiency (points/drive), that was a very good year for us, even when opponent adjusted.
 

Longestday

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I want to make sure I am not downing our players.

Blame is not the word I tried to explain or demonstrate. I prefer a reality of what happened for what ever reason: injuries, no experience, people leaving the program, playing out of position, not able to wait for the snap count...etc. I do not blame the OL for a a bad season as last season was not bad (see Virginia).

If the OL played better, I think Vad would have looked better. Don't get me wrong. I don't think Vad was a great passer and he still could not run the TO.

It takes a team to win and a team to not win. I think the areas for improvement are OL and then QB with a requirement that the AB's don't regress without Godhigh.

The QB will be better. The OL is a question mark. The ABs will most likely regress a little.
 

takethepoints

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I'm not sure where your statistics are from, but here are some from cfbstats (against the conference):
Year .... YPG rush (att/g, ave) ... YPG pass (att/g, y/att)
2008 ...... 264.13 (49.63, 5.32) ........ 100.5 (12.4, 8.1)
2009 ...... 315.11 (58.56, 5.38) ......... 111.8 (11.9, 9.4)
2010 ...... 314.13 (56.75, 5.55) ........... 91.9 (12.8, 7.2)
2011 ....... 284.50 (55.63, 5.11) ......... 107.3 (12.8, 8.4)
2012 ....... 325.89 (59.1, 5.51) ........... 128.1 (12.3, 10.4)
2013 ....... 305.50 (56.5, 5.41) .......... 114.5 (15.1, 7.6)

Now, obviously the strength of our conference schedule has varied, so I wouldn't use these stats alone to compare our offenses. Still, it seems to me that these stats make it hard to argue either that our OL has collapsed or that opposing D's have "caught up."

That being said, the 2011 stats seem really odd. In overall drive efficiency (points/drive), that was a very good year for us, even when opponent adjusted.
I wasn't arguing that either " … our OL has collapsed or that opposing D's have 'caught up.'" What I was saying is that, despite the dumpster fire that was our OL last year after 4 games, we still did pretty well. And still, as I said, we have people calling for Sewak's head. I think it is self-evident why Coach hasn't fired him. He put the fire out.
 

AE 87

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I wasn't arguing that either " … our OL has collapsed or that opposing D's have 'caught up.'" What I was saying is that, despite the dumpster fire that was our OL last year after 4 games, we still did pretty well. And still, as I said, we have people calling for Sewak's head. I think it is self-evident why Coach hasn't fired him. He put the fire out.
I was agreeing with you.
 

GTRanj

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I was at that game and seemed to be only 1 of about 300 that were there supporting the Yellow Jackets. I think its safe to say that both sides of the ball didn't help the other out. Our offense/special teams mad key mistakes which allowed them to get to a 20-0 lead. Then our defense could stop anything when our offense finally got it going and the score was 27-17.
My God sir, you have the most amazing sig I've ever seen. Well done!
 
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