Coronavirus Thread

[WreckinGT]

Why is there no point? Some income is better than none. In my experience bowling alleys are usually only busy on weekends and during league hours. I used to bowl in a league. If we went on a Tuesday afternoon to practice a few hours before league started, there were far fewer than 1 out of 5 lanes in use.

Also, to highlight my point about the banter hurting things. With some people arguing that under no circumstances should bowling alleys be allowed to open, even if there are restrictions that limit possible infections, other people are going to overstep the restrictions to demonstrate against the people who argue that nothing should be allowed. Both sides have lost perspective about what the goal is and are simply arguing.

The profit margins for bowling alone aren't that high. A significant portion of income comes from food and beverage sales, along with arcade income to a lesser extent. These restrictions would cut that income by 80% at least if not get rid of the income entirely. You would also have to open with a closed bar, eliminating that revenue. Now you have the issue of the staffing needed to actually consistently sanitize a bowling alley. Even on busy nights, bowling alleys don't keep a very large staff. Now they have to sanitize every ball, seat, bathroom, and table in the place on a regular basis. Even with less customers, I have never seen a bowling alley with nearly adequate staff to do this. Bowling alleys are pretty disgusting places in general already for this reason. I say this as someone who has worked at a bowling alley and used to bowl in leagues and tournaments regular for about 10 years. I still bowl with friends fairly regularly.

Also, how exactly do you handle crowds? In popular bowling alleys it isn't abnormal to see as many people waiting to bowl as bowling themselves. Do you send them home? Sorry, we reached the Kemp maximum? That is never going to happen.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Is there any data that shows how many of these require hospitalization?

Yes, with a few caveats:
1) This data is a bit dated in the broad scheme of things.
2) If we're testing much more now than we were back at the time of this (its a 1 month range ending 1 month ago), then theoretically, we're catching a much larger percentage of people who actually have the diseases. Which could show up as a lower hospitalization rate and lower mortality rate now.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6912e2.htm#T1_down

If I'm reading this right, elderly people are about 25% as to whether they end up in the ICU. 45-65 are about 8%-10%. 20-45 are about 3%. Teenagers are 0%.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The profit margins for bowling alone aren't that high. A significant portion of income comes from food and beverage sales, along with arcade income to a lesser extent. These restrictions would cut that income by 80% at least if not get rid of the income entirely. You would also have to open with a closed bar, eliminating that revenue. Now you have the issue of the staffing needed to actually consistently sanitize a bowling alley. Even on busy nights, bowling alleys don't keep a very large staff. Now they have to sanitize every ball, seat, bathroom, and table in the place on a regular basis. Even with less customers, I have never seen a bowling alley with nearly adequate staff to do this. Bowling alleys are pretty disgusting places in general already for this reason. I say this as someone who has worked at a bowling alley and used to bowl in leagues and tournaments regular for about 10 years. I still bowl with friends fairly regularly.

Also, how exactly do you handle crowds? In popular bowling alleys it isn't abnormal to see as many people waiting to bowl as bowling themselves. Do you send them home? Sorry, we reached the Kemp maximum? That is never going to happen.

The answer to a lot of these questions is that you do what everybody else is doing. Grocery stores, restaurants, home improvement stores - their cost of doing business all went up. So you adjust your cost back to the customer as best you can and tweak your business model as best you can. With regards to crowds, I don't know about where you are, but we have a maximum amount of people allowed in a grocery store (for example) here. Outside on the sidewalk are orange painted Xs 6 feet apart. Someone monitors the entrance, and if the store is full, a line starts forming outside, 6 feet between people. Obviously if you pull up and see there's a long line of 30 people outside, you'll go find something else to do.

Maybe they charge double to bowl because of all the required sanitization and having every other lane open and what-not. Maybe people pay that because they're desperate for something fun to do. Maybe they don't and the business tweaks the way they do things or closes back up.

 

[Boaty1]

Sadly, today is going to be another huge day of new cases in the US. We’re already over 30,000 new cases today, and it’s only 1 PM on the West Coast.

Johns Hopkins is showing around 21K at the moment with the major players already reporting. You are right that the west coast still has to come in but I doubt we hit 30K today. Hopefully not at least.

Death toll is not jsut dropping in the northeast. Unbelievable.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

What if I want to go to work but you don’t? Why should you get your way and I don’t? Why can’t we both choose and you can chose to stay at home where you feel safe and I can go to work where I feel it’s not a big enough threat for me to worry about?

This is fundamentally what’s playing out here. You got those who like to control (and boy do they love it) trying to control those who don’t like being controlled (and boy do we hate it), plus a bunch of sheep in the middle that will go whatever way they think they’re being told.

I advocate not telling anyone to go to work or not go to work. Let people choose. I know I can decide for myself. If you need government’s help to decide what to do, well seek government’s guidance and leave me alone. If the sheep want to follow you, fine. If they tag along behind me that’s ok too. They’re sheep and they won’t decide for themselves anyway.

First off, what you’re describing is not the situation we are in. As I have already discussed, we have opened the door to the possibility of people being forced to work when, based on their health and the current conditions, medical professionals wouldn’t recommend them to. They are not getting the choice simply not to work as you say.

Second, we have the right to do as we please as long as those rights don’t infringe on others. In this situation, going out and getting the virus and then transmitting it to others is infringing on others’ safety. I don’t believe in a total shutdown. I don’t believe people should be fined for going outside or anything like that. I do believe we can go a little while longer without bowling alleys, though. I’m a huge believer in American Individualism, but like anything, an extreme practice of it can be damning. I’m not sure opening bowling alleys in a national pandemic is the hill that American Individualism needs to die on.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

First off, what you’re describing is not the situation we are in. As I have already discussed, we have opened the door to the possibility of people being forced to work when, based on their health and the current conditions, medical professionals wouldn’t recommend them to. They are not getting the choice simply not to work as you say.

Second, we have the right to do as we please as long as those rights don’t infringe on others. In this situation, going out and getting the virus and then transmitting it to others is infringing on others’ safety. I don’t believe in a total shutdown. I don’t believe people should be fined for going outside or anything like that. I do believe we can go a little while longer without bowling alleys, though. I’m a huge believer in American Individualism, but like anything, an extreme practice of it can be damning. I’m not sure opening bowling alleys in a national pandemic is the hill that American Individualism needs to die on.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but you literally cannot force someone to work. If someone believes their job puts them at risk of an injury or death, that according to OSHA rules is an exemption. In a previous discussion on this thread, the people used in this illustration were over 60 with pre-existing conditions and previously worked for a hair salon and restaurant. I get the sense (the person who told that story can speak up if I'm wrong) in the current world, there literally is nothing those employers could do to make them feel comfortable going back to work in those jobs. Nobody can force you to work. Using that health exemption, they should be able to draw unemployment, which at ~$50k is actually probably a lot more money than they made before. They can also look for another job, or they can just stay out of the workforce until there is a vaccine or the conditions improve. They also don't have to contract the virus from someone else - if they feel their current self is a huge health risk around the virus, they can choose to stay home and self-isolate. My in-laws are doing exactly that. Whether or not Liberty goes out, 1,000,000 people do, or 0, they aren't leaving their premises (groceries delivered, etc.) until there is a vaccine or effective medicines.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Johns Hopkins is showing around 21K at the moment with the major players already reporting. You are right that the west coast still has to come in but I doubt we hit 30K today. Hopefully not at least.

Death toll is not jsut dropping in the northeast. Unbelievable.

Weird, Johns Hopkins is showing me we finished yesterday at 784k and currently we sit at 816k...a difference of 32k.

 

[Boaty1]

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Take a look at it. I'm seeing 22,580 as California just came in with a large dump.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

California just came in with a large dump.

They always do.

 

[684Bee]

First off, what you’re describing is not the situation we are in. As I have already discussed, we have opened the door to the possibility of people being forced to work when, based on their health and the current conditions, medical professionals wouldn’t recommend them to. They are not getting the choice simply not to work as you say.

Second, we have the right to do as we please as long as those rights don’t infringe on others. In this situation, going out and getting the virus and then transmitting it to others is infringing on others’ safety. I don’t believe in a total shutdown. I don’t believe people should be fined for going outside or anything like that. I do believe we can go a little while longer without bowling alleys, though. I’m a huge believer in American Individualism, but like anything, an extreme practice of it can be damning. I’m not sure opening bowling alleys in a national pandemic is the hill that American Individualism needs to die on.

I looked at all of my guys in the eye and told them that, first of all, I put their health and safety first, and I asked them if they felt comfortable continuing to work. I'm a very small business. It's me and 6 other guys. 5 of the 6 wanted to keep working. 1 guy, who has high blood pressure, chose to not continue working. He has been home for 2 weeks. That is his choice, and I will accept him back when he comes back.

 

[GT_EE78]

> korean baseball season to start on May 5
>Taiwan has already started
>skorea will have no fans and daily temps for players
https://nypost.com/2020/04/20/restart-of-korean-baseball-league-offers-hope-for-mlb/

 

[LibertyTurns]

@takethepoints @BleedGoldNWhite21 If people are given a choice to stay home or go to work and you stay home, if I go to work how am I infringing on you or anyone else staying at home’s rights? You’re at home where it’s safe. I’m at work where it’s dangerous with all the other risk be damned workers or people not buying the experts narratives.

There’s nobody demanding anyone go to work where it jeopardizes their health/ safety. If there is please cite that person. I sure as hell would not go to civilian work or even outside the home if necessary if I thought I’d die nor would I ask anyone else to.

I retired from military service and am planning on Uncle Sam paying me for a good long time to make up for crappy food, bad living conditions, horrible work schedules, moving a lot, missing major family life events and an occasional bullet too close for comfort. I’m not at what I consider the break even point yet. Defending your country is worth dying for, not coloring some woman’s hair or giving somebody a massage.

I just firmly believe and the numbers back me up that my risk level from Wuhan virus is very low given my age/health and location and I don’t need some government schmuck to tell me I need to sit at home instead of going to work, a store/ restaurant or running on the beach. If I was 70, was 100lbs overweight and had diabetes, heart problems & emphysema plus lived in Brooklyn, well I’d make a different choice.

 

[GT_EE78]

I live in the largest metro area in the state. In our County, we have averaged less than 10 new cases per day for nearly 2 weeks. Saturday we had 0 new cases. We've only had 3 deaths ever. Our hospitals are operating at less than 25% of capacity. Its actually so bad they're hemorrhaging money and laying off nurses and doctors left and right. One of our flagship teaching hospitals here (MUSC) has had multiple rounds of layoffs - one of the more recent ones was 900. They also cut pay. We're tremendously far below any hospital system capacity limit.

from what I've read SC hospital bed occupancy rate has not gone above 55% since this started. Over 10% of the state's healthcare workers have been laid off and many many others have had hours reduced. If this partial reopening doesn't produce a spike over the next 2-3 weeks, I think it will be time to consider restarting with non-emergency procedures, elective procedures, dr office visits and dental office visits (all with proper precautions- like maybe patients sit in their car rather than a waiting room and wait to be called)

 

[takethepoints]

@takethepoints @BleedGoldNWhite21 If people are given a choice to stay home or go to work and you stay home, if I go to work how am I infringing on you or anyone else staying at home’s rights? You’re at home where it’s safe. I’m at work where it’s dangerous with all the other risk be damned workers or people not buying the experts narratives.

By this kind of reasoning any kind of assault against a new virus is out. It isn't my choice to stay at home that's at risk; it's my health. And your choice puts it at risk. If I could be sure that you would not catch and transmit the disease, fine. But, of course, I can't and neither can anyone else. That's why the courts (for instance) have always upheld restrictions on individual behavior during epidemics. If, say, we had a vaccine for COVID-19 and you refused to get inoculated, it would be exactly the same scenario. We do this for kids all the time and for good reason. We'll do it for this one for adults; no work without a vaccination is for sure coming.

And it is justified too boot.

 

[GTRX7]

Exactly what I said in my post. The news media ignored the fact that the CDC issued statements two days before Kemp's press conference in which they said that they just then confirmed asymptomatic spread, and that an estimated 25% of infected people are asymptomatic. The media is making a big deal of statements and wording, while trying to create controversy and drama. Not from one political leaning or the other, but the media is doing a terrible job of reporting facts.

FYI, here is an article from January 31st were Fauci confirmed that the virus can be spread by asymptomatic carriers: “There’s no doubt after reading this paper that asymptomatic transmission is occurring,” Dr Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN. “This study lays the question to rest.” LINK

 

[GT_EE78]

Also, another study and HCQ. Largest one yet. Done at VA hospitals in the US. No positive effects found either in reducing the ventilators needed or preventing death.
This is the actual study, it still has to be peer reviewed - been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf

That's because they didn't include the ingredient that prevents the virus from replicating.
Zinc
Most Europeans have learned this already, along with the problems that come with 450mg and 600mg mega-dosages (thats the Brazilian study you previously mentioned)
It's narrowing things down, HCQ by itself does little.. Every study that I've seen with 200mg HCQ dose +Zpac+Zinc has been hugely successful.
As far as I know Poland is the only country to designate that regimen as the primary treatment (200mg HCQ dose +Zpac+Zinc)
Poland (% recovered-green versus % died-orange )

USA

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Well South Korea runs a virtual police state around this, unlike really any other country in the world.

Australia benefits from being in the middle of summer when the virus hit. I don't know what the exact percentage is, but the vast vast vast majority of COVID-19 cases are in the northern hemisphere.

Agree the R0 transmission has to be lower in warm humid climates. But still a lot above 1 based on some warm humid places like Singapore. But with so many people, it's hard to social distance. A bunch of variables, but warm weather in the US will not stop this.

 

[RonJohn]

FYI, here is an article from January 31st were Fauci confirmed that the virus can be spread by asymptomatic carriers: “There’s no doubt after reading this paper that asymptomatic transmission is occurring,” Dr Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN. “This study lays the question to rest.” LINK

Then why did the CDC say in March 31st that it had just been confirmed?

 

[CHE90]

Welcome back Mr. Redirection!

Flattening the curve doesn't mean, and has never meant, reducing the outbreak to close to zero. All it means is keeping the hospital system traffic below their capacity. In other words to your question - no, nobody was implying that and that wasn't the question.

 

[CHE90]

Yea, hopefully he got those confused. No way South Korea is Orwellian

Jesus Christ, Michigan is almost Orwellian so I wouldn't doubt South Korea is as well.