Coronavirus Thread

[RamblinRed]

> Conspiracy theory you say - There's a retired US Army Colonel who disagrees with you
US Army Colonel: Coronavirus Was Leaked From A Chinese Lab
“Time and additional evidence will show that coronavirus ‘leaked’ from a Chinese laboratory.”

A retired US Army Colonel is among a growing list of prominent figures to lend weight to the theory that the Coronavirus now ravaging the globe leaked from a Chinese bio-lab in Wuhan in late November.

Lawrence Sellin Ph.D. is a retired colonel with 29 years of service in the U.S. Army Reserve, who previously worked at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases.

In a recent op ed, he writes that while “there appears to be a politically-motivated campaign to demonstrate that CoVid-19 occurred naturally as a species ‘jump’ from animals to humans originating in the Wuhan wet market…there is still little evidence that directly supports that contention.”

Instead, Sellin posits that the origin of the virus is more likely to be a lab leak, arguing that “the technology to create a coronavirus chimera has been demonstrated,” and “deadly viruses have previously ‘leaked’ out of Chinese virology labs in two separate incidents.”

“Given the illness, death and economic destruction caused by CoVid-19, it is the responsibility of the Chinese government to fully open its research files and databases to international inspection, including information about the hundreds of coronavirus isolates, in order to ascertain the true origin of the Chinese CoVid-19 coronavirus.” Sellin urges.
https://summit.news/2020/04/07/us-army-colonel-coronavirus-was-leaked-from-a-chinese-lab/

That is still nothing more than an opinion from one person.
I'll take the word of medical personal who have actually studied the virus over a former Army Colonel who has not.

once again, when you have something a little more factual than the opinion of one person who has not actually studied this particular virus then let me know.

 

[RamblinRed]

i know this is in French, but translated what it says is that a Hydroxychloroquine study in France has been halted due to cardiac side effects.

 

[Boaty1]

1st time I’ve been on here in a few days and reading through this all I can say is wow! The group think is really strong in here. We had one poster completely shut down and essentially laughed at for saying 6 out of 7 people with Coronavirus go undetected. He was siting this study.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/86-of...rus-are-walking-around-undetected-study-says/

The belief that we are only identifying a fraction of the infected is widely supported by the most prestigious research institutions in the world.

Back when we only had 1,600 cases nationwide Johns Hopkins estimated that there was in reality anywhere between 50K-500K.

Oxford University came out with a study that turned out to be highly critical of the imperial College study that projected millions of deaths in America. The difference was they disputed the mortality rate Imperial College used because Oxford made the same claim that Johns Hopkins made that we are only capturing a fraction of the cases.

Do I know if these studies are accurate? No. But to act like the 25% number being thrown around is fact on the amount of asymptotic people is just absurd and frankly screams of arrogance and group think. The Imperial College model that predicted millions of deaths has already been revised down so significantly it makes their work seem meaningless. Even some of the numbers we were told just last week are being revised down. There is a very good chance in my mind that when we get on the other side of this thing we will realize the virus was not as deadly as we thought.

One more thing. All this talk about protecting players is just preposterous. Show me a healthy 18-22 year old athlete that has had a severe case of this thing and I will listen. Until then it makes no sense.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

i know this is in French, but translated what it says is that a Hydroxychloroquine study in France has been halted due to cardiac side effects.

The fact that there are possible cardiac side effects has been known since the medication was first introduced 40 + years ago. That is pretty much avoidable by doctors finding out, as they should easily be able to, whether the patient has pre-existing problems. Other known, but random, side effects are nausea and bowel problems, but that is random and apparently rare. I took the pills prior to going to Africa and Indonesia and SE Asia and had no reaction whatsoever. The other fact is that the medication has been used effectively for 40 + years nor only in the prevention of malaria, but also in the treatment of lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. Whether it is effective in treating Copid has not been proven, but it is known that in some cases it has been effective. Most recently a democrat congresswoman in Michigan suffering from Copid asked her physician to prescribe it for her, and virtually overnight, she recovered and is now out of the hospital. There is absolutely no reason not to proceed with clinical trials, but there is also no overwhelming reason not to try it even now, when both doctor and patient are willing, and the patient doesn't have pre-existing heart problems. After all, if there is even a chance it could help, why not? What do you have to lose? The AMA has inexplicably said, "your life", in spite of the fact that use of it in controlled situations has not caused any deaths. And based solely on available statistics, it is apparent that no one already taking hydroxycholorquine for lupus has come done with Copid. That would seem to be something definitely worth considering also.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

That is still nothing more than an opinion from one person.
I'll take the word of medical personal who have actually studied the virus over a former Army Colonel who has not.

once again, when you have something a little more factual than the opinion of one person who has not actually studied this particular virus then let me know.

The fact that China has not exactly been forthcoming in releasing any information that can be validated by either medical or military personnel or anyone in government would seem to say that the only thing either medical personnel or an Army Colonel can give us is an opinion. Frankly, I don't believe a single word coming out of China.

 

[takethepoints]

They knew it was coming, but nobody paid attention. See:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dr-fauci-has-been-dreading-a-pandemic-like-covid-19-for-years/

Describes COVID-19 exactly, doesn't it? And this was before the disease emerged. But it is hard to get a democracy take the things like this seriously before they happen; I mean, Billy Mitchell predicted Pearl Harbor.

And before everybody jumps in on this, I know this is a common problem with democracies and isn't particular to any political party holding power. Still getting rid of that pandemic section in the NSC was a really bad idea.

 

[takethepoints]

The toilet paper dilemma revealed! See:

https://marker.medium.com/what-everyones-getting-wrong-about-the-toilet-paper-shortage-c812e1358fe0

So, no, it isn't about how much TP people are buying, it's where they are using it. The market for TP is divided into commercial and home markets that demand very different products. (You may have noticed that in the toilets at Grant Field.) Since everybody is staying at home, the amount of home TP used is up 40% and the companies are having a hard time adjusting. Turns out that different types of TP are made at different plants; you can't switch from one type of production to another without a lot of re-tooling. So … we run out.

Personally, I've always wanted to buy those big rolls and their dispensers to use at home. It's much more efficient. There has always been, shall we say, resistance to that idea.

 

[herb]

Personally, I've always wanted to buy those big rolls and their dispensers to use at home. It's much more efficient. There has always been, shall we say, resistance to that idea.

Mama doesn’t like John Wayne toilet paper?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

They knew it was coming, but nobody paid attention. See:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dr-fauci-has-been-dreading-a-pandemic-like-covid-19-for-years/

Describes COVID-19 exactly, doesn't it? And this was before the disease emerged. But it is hard to get a democracy take the things like this seriously before they happen; I mean, Billy Mitchell predicted Pearl Harbor.

And before everybody jumps in on this, I know this is a common problem with democracies and isn't particular to any political party holding power. Still getting rid of that pandemic section in the NSC was a really bad idea.

Well it’s like a broken clock. You say it every year for 100 years and you’ll be right a few times. The part that really bothers me is that these same people did nothing about it. If you get hit with a pandemic, what are you going to need? The ability to run tests, PPE, etc. the CDC/NIH/FDA has done literally nothing to allow for tests to be developed and ramped up in a quick manner during a pandemic.

Hospitals and states apparently did little to nothing to maintain emergency supplies. The federal government can’t hold enough for the entire country. They totally missed the fact that even in cold areas, they’re going to start wanting to wear PPE just to be safe. I’ve still seen none of the health experts acknowledge that. So nobody had any extra to share.

And the final issue comes back to panic. Governors tried to unnecessarily hoard supplies, and people were not honest about what they really needed. Because nobody could/would share with them.

Hopefully they’ll finally have a basic framework when we’re done, but I’m not holding my breath. Testing in particular has been a well known problem. Anybody seen journalists get interviews with the FDA and CDC and really drill into their shortcomings? Not me.

And actually finally, none of these health experts take economics into their recommendations. We did the full lockdown because they thought we might have hundreds of thousands of deaths. What if it would have been 100,000? 50,000? 10,000? At what point is the economic misery put on hundreds of millions worth it?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

We’re still flying empty, money losing flights all over the country. Because those are the rules to qualify for money. Insanity.
https://reason.com/2020/04/03/the-f...-empty-commercial-planes-flying-over-the-u-s/

 

[684Bee]

We’re still flying empty, money losing flights all over the country. Because those are the rules to qualify for money. Insanity.
https://reason.com/2020/04/03/the-f...-empty-commercial-planes-flying-over-the-u-s/

Big govt and big business go hand-in-hand. It’s a filthy game they play.

It’s funny to me to see some people rant about evil corporations, without mentioning the perils of the heavy hand of big govt. At least with limited govt you’d be left with more choice. With Big Govt + Big Business you get less choice.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[RamblinRed]

Here is an article on how Europe failed to prepare for COVID19
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/08/how-europe-failed-the-coronavirus-test-174199

Also, the Washington model was updated today and avg deaths dropped to 60K (31-131K confidence interval) with the peak in 4 days for the US.
It treats the 100 deaths in GA as a one day blip on the high end of the confidence interval, have to see what the next few days bring.

 

[GT_EE78]

30K for today after 34K/25K for US new cases, way too early to celebrate but it's two days below a peak

33K for for US new cases on 4/7. still below the 4/4 peak.
25K/30K/33K (8.0/8.9/9.0%) averages about 8.6% of the prior days totals which means the rate of doubling is about 8 days, which is better than last week

 

[RamblinRed]

33K for for US new cases on 4/7. still below the 4/4 peak.
25K/30K/33K (8.0/8.9/9.0%) averages about 8.6% of the prior days totals which means the rate of doubling is about 8 days, which is better than last week

And hopefully that is what we continue to see, the doubling rate slowing down.

 

[RamblinRed]

Interestingly, this type of pandemic scenario is what has kept Fauci up at night.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dr-fauci-has-been-dreading-a-pandemic-like-covid-19-for-years/

 

[Deleted member 2897]

A few notes:
1) The face mask should cover your face, by definition.
2) You should never touch the mask.
3) You simply pull it down when you talk - don’t put it in your pocket.

Every single thing he did is completely wrong. Actions like these effectively nullify the purpose of the mask. All the journalists I’ve seen wearing them appear to be doing it correctly.

If you’re using cloth masks, wash and rotate them frequently.

 

[GoldZ]

1st time I’ve been on here in a few days and reading through this all I can say is wow! The group think is really strong in here. We had one poster completely shut down and essentially laughed at for saying 6 out of 7 people with Coronavirus go undetected. He was siting this study.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/86-of...rus-are-walking-around-undetected-study-says/

The belief that we are only identifying a fraction of the infected is widely supported by the most prestigious research institutions in the world.

Back when we only had 1,600 cases nationwide Johns Hopkins estimated that there was in reality anywhere between 50K-500K.

Oxford University came out with a study that turned out to be highly critical of the imperial College study that projected millions of deaths in America. The difference was they disputed the mortality rate Imperial College used because Oxford made the same claim that Johns Hopkins made that we are only capturing a fraction of the cases.

Do I know if these studies are accurate? No. But to act like the 25% number being thrown around is fact on the amount of asymptotic people is just absurd and frankly screams of arrogance and group think. The Imperial College model that predicted millions of deaths has already been revised down so significantly it makes their work seem meaningless. Even some of the numbers we were told just last week are being revised down. There is a very good chance in my mind that when we get on the other side of this thing we will realize the virus was not as deadly as we thought.

One more thing. All this talk about protecting players is just preposterous. Show me a healthy 18-22 year old athlete that has had a severe case of this thing and I will listen. Until then it makes no sense.

Just my worthless opinion, but it's incorrect to confuse the unsupported 6 out of 7 comment due to lack of testing. Testing for antibodies is far behind the lack of testing for whether someone is infected. As for how deadly it is, there's tons of evidence already that it is far deadlier than the flu or H1N1, but yes, when testing is more prevalent the current CFR will go down. When this is over, I fully expect some will say in effect, I told you so, while completely missing the obvious impact of mediation.
Also, not sure, but didn't a Washington State player die of it? Group think is one thing, but I don't see much of it on here, or more importantly, even among the medical professionals who know much much much more than us posters. It's obviously evolving since it is a novel virus. Remember when Dr. Fauci in January said wtte: The US has nothing to worry about.

Another NY Post article: https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/teen-...against-young-people-underestimating-disease/

 

[Boaty1]

Just my worthless opinion, but it's incorrect to confuse the unsupported 6 out of 7 comment due to lack of testing. Testing for antibodies is far behind the lack of testing for whether someone is infected. As for how deadly it is, there's tons of evidence already that it is far deadlier than the flu or H1N1, but yes, when testing is more prevalent the current CFR will go down. When this is over, I fully expect some will say in effect, I told you so, while completely missing the obvious impact of mediation.
Also, not sure, but didn't a Washington State player die of it? Group think is one thing, but I don't see much of it on here, or more importantly, even among the medical professionals who know much much much more than us posters. It's obviously evolving since it is a novel virus. Remember when Dr. Fauci in January said wtte: The US has nothing to worry about.

Another NY Post article: https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/teen-...against-young-people-underestimating-disease/

Look, I don't pretend to have all the answers here. I'm perfectly willing to examine the data and new information as it comes in. For example, the news that a young healthy athlete had died from the virus would be something new to me. I searched for the Washington State player you mentioned but could not find a confirmed link between his death and the virus. If you can find that i would certainly like to see it.

My main concern here is the way Techpreacher was treated for presenting a contradictory opinion that is not outside the scope of what the science has been saying. In my view, that is unacceptable for supposed open minded, intelligent people to react that way to those they disagree with.

Edited to add the NY Post article you linked is so anecdotal, it really isn't worth mentioning. Teens are far more likely to die in a car accident this week than from the Coronavirus. We have to look at things in totality.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

1/3rd of Americans missed their rent payments in the latest month. Yowzers.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coro...-missed-rent-payments-in-april-135654889.html