Coronavirus Thread

[RonJohn]

1/3rd of Americans missed their rent payments in the latest month. Yowzers.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coro...-missed-rent-payments-in-april-135654889.html

That headline is misleading. The story states that 31% of renters did not make their April rent payments on time. It also says that in March 19% did not and in April of 2019, 18% did not. So it looks like the average not making the payment on time is around 18-19%. The difference between March and April was 12%. Of those 12% it says that 35% had given notice to and made proactive arrangements with their landlords. So 8% more of renters didn't pay on time, and didn't make prior arrangements with landlords. Some of that 8% might have made payments after the due date, or might yet.

8% is large number. However, unlike the headline infers, it isn't that 1/3 of renters are not going to pay their rent this month.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

That headline is misleading. The story states that 31% of renters did not make their April rent payments on time. It also says that in March 19% did not and in April of 2019, 18% did not. So it looks like the average not making the payment on time is around 18-19%. The difference between March and April was 12%. Of those 12% it says that 35% had given notice to and made proactive arrangements with their landlords. So 8% more of renters didn't pay on time, and didn't make prior arrangements with landlords. Some of that 8% might have made payments after the due date, or might yet.

8% is large number. However, unlike the headline infers, it isn't that 1/3 of renters are not going to pay their rent this month.

It is a bit misleading, but that’s 70% more than last year. That’s the larger point. And we haven’t really gotten into bad financial straights since most people losing their jobs just started 2 weeks ago.

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

1/3rd of Americans missed their rent payments in the latest month. Yowzers.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/coro...-missed-rent-payments-in-april-135654889.html

Hey, I work in this industry!

Our company reported that 75% of rent payments were made by 4/5 for our portfolios and that was the same number for March.

 

[GT_EE78]

A few notes:
3) You simply pull it down when you talk - don’t put it in your pocket.
All the journalists I’ve seen .....

Better tell those journalists that this is more convenient so u don't have to pull it down for talking

 

[GT_EE78]

 

[GT_EE78]

Hydroxychloroquine may work against the coronavirus, but the media are refusing to acknowledge it
> Thank goodness we have a "right to try" law.I won't mention the person responsible for fear of sounding political.
Television journalists think they’re making a searing point by endlessly pointing out that hydroxychloroquine has not been 100% proved as an effective treatment against the coronavirus. In reality, they’re foolishly refuting a claim that no one is making.

You don’t have to be a surgeon, pediatrician, or even veterinarian to repeat the things published by scientists and, yes, even other medical professionals, which is that there is reason to believe that chloroquine may, at the very least, help patients mitigate the infection's symptoms.

The science is still out on hydroxychloroquine. But, in the meantime, let’s look at the evidence and not the media.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-but-the-media-are-refusing-to-acknowledge-it

 

[Deleted member 2897]

“Doctors rethink ventilators.”

I find this stuff fascinating. Because the body of science has said NOT to give anti-inflammatory drugs and medicines, as that makes the virus worse. It’s the inflammatory response that helps the body heal. Pretty interesting to keep having these diametrically opposing views.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rethinki...uestion-how-we-use-ventilators-123733204.html

 

[GT_EE78]

Long Island doctor tries new twist on hydroxychloroquine for elderly COVID-19 patients
> this is important as he used a different antibiotic than the Zpak which may not be suitable for those with underlying heart conditions.
> it's not a clinical trial
>38 of 47 patients treated returned to their baseline and their symptoms resolved.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/04/long-island-doctor-tries-new-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid-19-patients/

 

[FredJacket]

Hydroxychloroquine may work against the coronavirus, but the media are refusing to acknowledge it
> Thank goodness we have a "right to try" law.I won't mention the person responsible for fear of sounding political.
Television journalists think they’re making a searing point by endlessly pointing out that hydroxychloroquine has not been 100% proved as an effective treatment against the coronavirus. In reality, they’re foolishly refuting a claim that no one is making.

You don’t have to be a surgeon, pediatrician, or even veterinarian to repeat the things published by scientists and, yes, even other medical professionals, which is that there is reason to believe that chloroquine may, at the very least, help patients mitigate the infection's symptoms.

The science is still out on hydroxychloroquine. But, in the meantime, let’s look at the evidence and not the media.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-but-the-media-are-refusing-to-acknowledge-it

Anecdotal is the new most overused word in journalism.

 

[684Bee]

Anecdotal is the new most overused word in journalism.

It's anecdotal because it's not bad for Trump. It'll continue to be "anecdotal", even though there are many, many stories like this. If it was the last President, all it would take is one instance.

 

[RonJohn]

“Doctors rethink ventilators.”

I find this stuff fascinating. Because the body of science has said NOT to give anti-inflammatory drugs and medicines, as that makes the virus worse. It’s the inflammatory response that helps the body heal. Pretty interesting to keep having these diametrically opposing views.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/rethinki...uestion-how-we-use-ventilators-123733204.html

The anti-inflammatory reports were not even anecdotal. It arose from a study that linked ACE2 in people with high blood pressure and diabetes to higher issues with COVID-19. Apparently, ACE2 provides a surface on cells on which the coronavirus can attach and replicate. The study indicated that people with high blood pressure and diabetes often take ace inhibitors, which increase the levels of ACE2 in the body. The study also noted that NSAIDS, like acetaminophen, also can cause the level of ACE2 to rise. There wasn't any direct evidence that Ibuprofen actually caused issues. However, the French Minister of Health warned of "possible or confirmed cases" of adverse side effects of Ibuprofen. The French minister then recommended using generic acetaminophen instead of Ibuprofen, which makes absolutely no sense. The French government was never able to provide any actual study or case of someone being harmed by Ibuprofen or acetaminophen. Still, that warning and sloppy journalism that just made scary headlines with no investigation cause people to still believe that it is a proven fact.

BTW, I take Ramipril, which is a generic version of Altace, which is an ace inhibitor.

https://www.wired.com/story/the-ibuprofen-debate-reveals-the-danger-of-covid-19-rumors/


https://www.fda.gov/drugs/drug-safe...oidal-anti-inflammatory-drugs-nsaids-covid-19
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7105332/
https://www.sciencealert.com/ibuprofen-and-covid-19-symptoms-here-s-what-you-need-to-know

 

[GoldZ]

Look, I don't pretend to have all the answers here. I'm perfectly willing to examine the data and new information as it comes in. For example, the news that a young healthy athlete had died from the virus would be something new to me. I searched for the Washington State player you mentioned but could not find a confirmed link between his death and the virus. If you can find that i would certainly like to see it.

My main concern here is the way Techpreacher was treated for presenting a contradictory opinion that is not outside the scope of what the science has been saying. In my view, that is unacceptable for supposed open minded, intelligent people to react that way to those they disagree with.

Edited to add the NY Post article you linked is so anecdotal, it really isn't worth mentioning. Teens are far more likely to die in a car accident this week than from the Coronavirus. We have to look at things in totality.

Yeah, totality does give perspective, but in total many many more people die every day, young and older, from causes other than this virus. So, should we shut down the World economies for each reason that kills more people than the virus? Of course not. The virus however is significantly additive to death causes, which is the point of our actions trying to reduce it. The Soylent Green scenario is a very slippery slope.
Preachers' opinion was in fact not supported at this time by the majority of our medical community, so at best it was pretty far out on the tail of the data to date curve. The numbers of strong reasonably young healthy people who have died and or been hospitalized, seems far removed from simple anecdotal input. Too early to claim a 6 outta 7 or a 2 outta 7 number. What's not too early to claim, is that if the 6/7 number turns out to be correct, it damn well confirms the actions we are taking.
As for the W.State player deal, I don't think it has been established in an official manner that it was the virus. The only sites I can find are less than mainstream. I'm with you Boaty1 on being willing to examine new info as it emerges, which it most assuredly will.

 

[RonJohn]

The science is still out on hydroxychloroquine. But, in the meantime, let’s look at the evidence and not the media.

That I agree with. Let's look at evidence. Not statements by politicians. Not statements by reporters. Not one person saying: "I was on death's bed and it worked for me". Let's look at scientific study that details whether there is a benefit or not, and what that benefit might be.

If someone is about to die and wants to try it, I don't have an issue with that. I do have an issue with throwing everything into one possible treatment. I have an issue with people believing in a medical treatment before there is any actual evidence that it works. It isn't a matter of belief. It either has some effect or not. The only way to determine that is to conduct trials.

 

[GT_EE78]

That I agree with. Let's look at evidence. Not statements by politicians. Not statements by reporters. Not one person saying: "I was on death's bed and it worked for me". Let's look at scientific study that details whether there is a benefit or not, and what that benefit might be.

If someone is about to die and wants to try it, I don't have an issue with that. I do have an issue with throwing everything into one possible treatment. I have an issue with people believing in a medical treatment before there is any actual evidence that it works. It isn't a matter of belief. It either has some effect or not. The only way to determine that is to conduct trials.

Fauci was asked if he would use hydroxychloroquine to treat an infected patient, and he said, “Yes, of course. I mean, particularly if people have no other option, you want to give them hope.”

You are making Dr. Fauci very angry.

 

[FredJacket]

I have an issue with people believing in a medical treatment before there is any actual evidence that it works. It isn't a matter of belief. It either has some effect or not. The only way to determine that is to conduct trials.

Your evidence on what folks are believing or not at this point seems anecdotal... at best.

 

[RonJohn]

Fauci was asked if he would use hydroxychloroquine to treat an infected patient, and he said, “Yes, of course. I mean, particularly if people have no other option, you want to give them hope.”
View attachment 8159
You are making Dr. Fauci very angry.

What part of my reply conflicted with that? Did I say that it doesn't work? Did I say that I believe it doesn't work? If you think that is what I am saying, you aren't paying very much attention to what I am actually writing.

 

[GT_EE78]

No countries numbers are going down due to widespread hydroxychloroquine use because no country is using it widely.

Hydroxychloroquine usage amongst COVID-19 treaters is 72% in Spain, 49% in Italy, 41% in Brazil, 39% in Mexico, 28% in France

 

[RonJohn]

Your evidence on what folks are believing or not at this point seems anecdotal... at best.

There are some things in medicine that are subjective. Whether a medicine has an effect on a physical condition isn't one of those things.

I am a type 1 diabetic. I must take insulin to stay alive. I understand enough about the science to understand why, even though I am not a scientist. The body needs insulin in order to transfer sugar from the blood to cells. Without insulin my blood sugar will increase and within a couple of weeks I will die. I don't take insulin because I believe that it will work. I take insulin because I know as a matter of science that it will work. I take insulin because I know from scientific study and clinical trials that it will work. It isn't a belief. It isn't a guess.

With hydroxychloriquine or any of the other medicines under study, if they do prove positive in clinical trials, there probably won't be an in depth understanding of the science of why it works for this particular virus for an even longer period of time. But there would be a yes/no scientific clinical trial that shows whether it has an effect of not. There might be several that show something in some situations. It is possible that hydroxychloriquine is effective, but others are effective also and can be used for people with heart issues while hydroxychlroiquine cannot be.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

There are some things in medicine that are subjective. Whether a medicine has an effect on a physical condition isn't one of those things.

I am a type 1 diabetic. I must take insulin to stay alive. I understand enough about the science to understand why, even though I am not a scientist. The body needs insulin in order to transfer sugar from the blood to cells. Without insulin my blood sugar will increase and within a couple of weeks I will die. I don't take insulin because I believe that it will work. I take insulin because I know as a matter of science that it will work. I take insulin because I know from scientific study and clinical trials that it will work. It isn't a belief. It isn't a guess.

With hydroxychloriquine or any of the other medicines under study, if they do prove positive in clinical trials, there probably won't be an in depth understanding of the science of why it works for this particular virus for an even longer period of time. But there would be a yes/no scientific clinical trial that shows whether it has an effect of not. There might be several that show something in some situations. It is possible that hydroxychloriquine is effective, but others are effective also and can be used for people with heart issues while hydroxychlroiquine cannot be.

Prior to the invention of synthetic insulin, Type 1 Diabetes was a death sentence. An excrutiatingly slow death sentence. Around then in the early 1920s, scientists began trying to find ways to manufacture a synthetic insulin. If you had heard that their work might have some benefit, would you participate in studies to see if it helped, even if it weren't scientifically proven yet? What would you have had to lose? (In fact the first person scientists actually tested with their new invention didn't show any benefit.) Unlike the current drugs, synthetic insulin had no track record whatsoever for safety or efficacy.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

HOLY ****!

Anybody who dies who has tested positive for COVID-19 is being listed as a COVID-19 death, regardless of the reason they actually died. In other words, if someone is largely asymptomatic, but dies in the hospital from anything, they are still listed as a COVID-19 death. This is ridiculously horrible.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/feds-classify-all-coronavirus-patient-deaths-as-covid-19-deaths/