Coronavirus Thread

[RonJohn]

@RamblinRed It sounds like we probably should not reopen too much until we have significantly scaled testing and have proper testing locations throughout US, otherwise we wont be able to get in-front of new outbreaks.

I think there is some level of opening that could happen immediately without concern. Steve Lehto, a lawyer who does videos on Youtube, had a video yesterday discussing storage facilities. In Michigan, his state, storage facilities are considered non-essential and have to close. In his discussion, he describes visiting a storage facility and how the only method of transmission during the entire visit is by entering the code to get in the gate. Other than that, you don't see anyone and don't touch anything else that other people have touched. States should currently be looking at how to get as much business as possible open. Let people drive to see azaleas as long as they don't stop and interact with others. (In some states it is illegal to drive unless you are engaged in essential activities) Let people go to storage units and place/remove items. As things open up, let people go into non-essential stores, but require the stores to limit occupancy and require clients to maintain distance.

There are things that can be done now to open more business with very little risk. Later, things can open up with requirements to minimize risks. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing arraingement.

 

[Peacone36]

I think there is some level of opening that could happen immediately without concern. Steve Lehto, a lawyer who does videos on Youtube, had a video yesterday discussing storage facilities. In Michigan, his state, storage facilities are considered non-essential and have to close. In his discussion, he describes visiting a storage facility and how the only method of transmission during the entire visit is by entering the code to get in the gate. Other than that, you don't see anyone and don't touch anything else that other people have touched. States should currently be looking at how to get as much business as possible open. Let people drive to see azaleas as long as they don't stop and interact with others. (In some states it is illegal to drive unless you are engaged in essential activities) Let people go to storage units and place/remove items. As things open up, let people go into non-essential stores, but require the stores to limit occupancy and require clients to maintain distance.

There are things that can be done now to open more business with very little risk. Later, things can open up with requirements to minimize risks. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing arraingement.

Some of what you are talking about though is dependent upon people actually adhering to the social contract. You and I might, but after seeing Florida/Georgia Beaches and even the town I live in on the weekends, people just can't be trusted to do the right thing. They are inherently selfish.

 

[RonJohn]

Some of what you are talking about though is dependent upon people actually adhering to the social contract. You and I might, but after seeing Florida/Georgia Beaches and even the town I live in on the weekends, people just can't be trusted to do the right thing. They are inherently selfish.

I would disagree, at least for what I know, about the Georgia beaches. News organizations were showing crowded beaches from other times, not from this past weekend. The most congestion I saw actually photographed in the past week was a group of about 8 guys playing volleyball. Not that I think they should have been playing volleyball, but the video I saw on the news stations was not from this past weekend.

EDIT: I saw a news video that showed a crowded GA beach, but like I said it was video from before COVID-19.

In that segment, they showed a person in California who was arrested for paddleboarding in the Pacific Ocean. He wouldn't have had lifeguard support sure, but how can a single person 100 feet into the Pacific Ocean infect someone else? How can a person running on a beach by themselves infect another person. It seems to me that people get too tied into the rules, and not the reason behind the rules. Steve Lehto did another video a few days ago that discussed a county in Michigan who passed an ordinance that made it illegal to purchase non-essential items in a store that is open because it sells essential items. That made it illegal to sell a magazine from the stand at the checkout counter in a grocery store. The reasoning was that bookstores can't be open so it isn't fair for a grocery store to be able to sell magazines. Lehto's response was that if the grocery store can't sell it, then they will buy it on Amazon.

 

[B Lifsey]

I would disagree, at least for what I know, about the Georgia beaches. News organizations were showing crowded beaches from other times, not from this past weekend. The most congestion I saw actually photographed in the past week was a group of about 8 guys playing volleyball. Not that I think they should have been playing volleyball, but the video I saw on the news stations was not from this past weekend.

EDIT: I saw a news video that showed a crowded GA beach, but like I said it was video from before COVID-19.

In that segment, they showed a person in California who was arrested for paddleboarding in the Pacific Ocean. He wouldn't have had lifeguard support sure, but how can a single person 100 feet into the Pacific Ocean infect someone else? How can a person running on a beach by themselves infect another person. It seems to me that people get too tied into the rules, and not the reason behind the rules. Steve Lehto did another video a few days ago that discussed a county in Michigan who passed an ordinance that made it illegal to purchase non-essential items in a store that is open because it sells essential items. That made it illegal to sell a magazine from the stand at the checkout counter in a grocery store. The reasoning was that bookstores can't be open so it isn't fair for a grocery store to be able to sell magazines. Lehto's response was that if the grocery store can't sell it, then they will buy it on Amazon.

May have been from Italy...

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I would disagree, at least for what I know, about the Georgia beaches. News organizations were showing crowded beaches from other times, not from this past weekend. The most congestion I saw actually photographed in the past week was a group of about 8 guys playing volleyball. Not that I think they should have been playing volleyball, but the video I saw on the news stations was not from this past weekend.

EDIT: I saw a news video that showed a crowded GA beach, but like I said it was video from before COVID-19.

In that segment, they showed a person in California who was arrested for paddleboarding in the Pacific Ocean. He wouldn't have had lifeguard support sure, but how can a single person 100 feet into the Pacific Ocean infect someone else? How can a person running on a beach by themselves infect another person. It seems to me that people get too tied into the rules, and not the reason behind the rules. Steve Lehto did another video a few days ago that discussed a county in Michigan who passed an ordinance that made it illegal to purchase non-essential items in a store that is open because it sells essential items. That made it illegal to sell a magazine from the stand at the checkout counter in a grocery store. The reasoning was that bookstores can't be open so it isn't fair for a grocery store to be able to sell magazines. Lehto's response was that if the grocery store can't sell it, then they will buy it on Amazon.

Yep, that reminds me of that one long government shutdown we had a few years ago, where open outdoor monuments were even closed. Barricades and stuff, when there wasn't anything to maintain in the first place or manage. Off the coast of Miami is Biscayne Bay. Its actually a National Park. They would send people out to accost boaters, telling them the water was closed and they had to get off government property. You just can't make this crap up.

Exercising outdoors, by yourself, is exactly what this population needs, for a variety of reasons. I can't believe they arrested someone for paddleboarding, unless there is more to the story.

 

[GT_EE78]

Medical group endorses anti-malarial drug treatment for coronavirus patients
America’s major medical society specializing in the treatment of respiratory diseases has endorsed using hydroxychloroquine for seriously ill hospitalized coronavirus patients.
The American Thoracic Society issued guidelines Monday that suggest COVID-19 patients with pneumonia get doses of the anti-malaria drug.

“To prescribe hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) to hospitalized patients with COVID-19 pneumonia if all of the following apply: a) shared decision-making is possible, b) data can be collected for interim comparisons of patients who received hydroxychloroquine (or chloroquine) versus those who did not, c) the illness is sufficiently severe to warrant investigational therapy, and d) the drug is not in short supply,” the Thoracic Society said.
https://nypost.com/2020/04/06/medical-group-backs-giving-hydroxychloroquine-to-coronavirus-patients/

 

[GT_EE78]

Hydroxychloroquine rated 'most effective therapy' by doctors for coronavirus: Global survey
An international poll of more than 6,000 doctors released Thursday found that the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine was the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus.
The survey conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, of 6,227 physicians in 30 countries found that 37% of those treating COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy” from a list of 15 options
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

 

[TheFlyest]

I’m in the healthcare field, so I’m working just as normal and not quarantined. But thanks for letting me know your “cult”

what you do in healthcare? I’m in healthcare and I’ve been self isolating since early March like most of us in healthcare. Unless you not on the front lines, even still though.

 

[TheFlyest]

Hydroxychloroquine is not a magic pill. It would help those affected but it’s no cure. What’s being pushed is highly problematic and meanwhile patients with Lupus have to just suffer.
https://people.com/health/kaiser-pe...prescriptions-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus/
https://people.com/health/kaiser-pe...prescriptions-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus/

 

[RonJohn]

Hydroxychloroquine rated 'most effective therapy' by doctors for coronavirus: Global survey
An international poll of more than 6,000 doctors released Thursday found that the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine was the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus.
The survey conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, of 6,227 physicians in 30 countries found that 37% of those treating COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy” from a list of 15 options
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

A social media company (instead of a global health care polling company) releases a poll to news organizations during a very active news cycle. Is there any chance that Sermo is trying to get attention to their business instead of publishing accurate informative information?

 

[GT_EE78]

> a heart-warming video of recovery from corona virus by Karen Whitsett
> a recovery that started within hours of taking the drug hydroxychloroquine
> this virus doesn't care what political party you are in
You have to watch the whole clip.
Listen to this woman’s story, of how terrified she was after testing positive for the coronavirus, a diagnosis that could be a sentence to a long, painful, horrible, awful illness; and at worst a death sentence.
And now look at her… At home, smiling, laughing, and grateful for access to the hydroxychloroquine her own governor blocked.
a drug she would not have known anything about had she not heard about it during a press conference.

 

[GT_EE78]

A social media company (instead of a global health care polling company) releases a poll to news organizations during a very active news cycle. Is there any chance that Sermo is trying to get attention to their business instead of publishing accurate informative information?

naysayers gonna naysay , just sayin'

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

> a heart-warming video of recovery from corona virus by Karen Whitsett
> a recovery that started within hours of taking the drug hydroxychloroquine
> this virus doesn't care what political party you are in
You have to watch the whole clip.
Listen to this woman’s story, of how terrified she was after testing positive for the coronavirus, a diagnosis that could be a sentence to a long, painful, horrible, awful illness; and at worst a death sentence.
And now look at her… At home, smiling, laughing, and grateful for access to the hydroxychloroquine her own governor blocked.
a drug she would not have known anything about had she not heard about it during a press conference.

I saw that last night. Remarkable story.

 

[RonJohn]

naysayers gonna naysay , just sayin'

Naysayer or looking for facts? A social media company tries to promote itself, so that if "proof"? A Democratic person says that a certain medicine cured her miraculously, so that is "proof"?

I have no interest in politics. I am not trying to say anything at all about politics. It is a very simple question of: Does this medicine work against the virus or not?

There is anecdotal evidence that it does. There is also anecdotal evidence that it does not. There is no scientific evidence that it does. If that evidence becomes available, then I will be convinced. What will not convince me are: People saying they believe it. Companies promoting themselves by making pronouncements. "Miracle" testimony.: People say lots of things that don't happen to be true. Companies promote lots of things trying to get publicity. There is testimony to alien UFO abductions, but that doesn't mean they actually occurred.

I understand the you believe in your heart that it works. I do not believe that it works, and I don't believe that it doesn't work. Instead I will rely on scientific data to know if it works or does not work. It isn't naysaying to ask for actual scientific evidence instead of a mountain of hearsay and belief.

 

[Milwaukee]

 

[ncjacket79]

Hydroxychloroquine is not a magic pill. It would help those affected but it’s no cure. What’s being pushed is highly problematic and meanwhile patients with Lupus have to just suffer.
https://people.com/health/kaiser-pe...prescriptions-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus/

Might help people. Even most doctors aren’t convinced but they have to try something. At this point they aren’t sure if people are simply pulling through or if some combination of what they are trying is helping. But with nothing else to try why not!

 

[Deleted member 2897]

As I was thinking today what it must be like on the front lines, surrounded by largely old people suffering tremendously, I thought Jeez, how could it get any worse? Well, I just read an article of how it could definitely be worse.

Viagra might be a possible treatment:
https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-04-05/viagra-discovery-could-treat-coronavirus-patients

Now imagine being a nurse on the front lines, walking down hallways full of largely old people suffering tremendously, and they all have enormous erections.

 

[gtchem05]

Hydroxychloroquine rated 'most effective therapy' by doctors for coronavirus: Global survey
An international poll of more than 6,000 doctors released Thursday found that the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine was the most highly rated treatment for the novel coronavirus.
The survey conducted by Sermo, a global health care polling company, of 6,227 physicians in 30 countries found that 37% of those treating COVID-19 patients rated hydroxychloroquine as the “most effective therapy” from a list of 15 options
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

It's like being the highest ranked PAC-12 football team. Still not all that much to be proud of. I will say, though, that there are plenty of hospitals who have criteria for prescribing hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) for COVID-19 patients, and I think it is entirely appropriate given that there are no proven treatment options and that the risk of harm is fairly low. Time will tell on how effective it is. When studies are published it will be interesting to see the number needed to treat (NNT) to prevent one death. My guess is that that number will be so high, it won't even be able to be calculated. For comparison, the NNT for Tamiflu prophylaxis is about 7 if treating household exposures. But this is to prevent a case of flu. To actually treat known flu and prevent an influenza pneumonia, the NNT is about 100. I couldn't even find a NNT for an influenza death because that number is likely so high. What I wouldn't be surprised to see would be something like HCQ reduces some COVID-19 symptom from an average of 6 days to 3 days or something like that. In this case, it might be nice to have but would hardly be life-saving.

P.S. I would love it if I was completely wrong about this and that HCQ actually did save lives.

 

[GT_EE78]

A recent small scale Chinese study showed no positive effects.

That's a mischaracterization of the results.
> It's also important to note that this study didn't include zinc which many are now saying is the thing that prevents the virus from replecating while the hydroxy is the vehicle that allows penetration. Still even without the Zinc, actual results were:

The initial results from a placebo-controlled trial of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 indicate that patients hospitalized with mild illness recovered more quickly with addition of the drug than with placebo at the start of a standard treatment. The results also suggest that hydroxychloroquine might convey some protection against the illness worsening.Zhan Zhang, MD, of Renmin Hospital of Wuhan University, Wuhan, China, and colleagues reported results from 62 patients randomized to receive either placebo or hydroxychloroquine 200mg twice daily for 5 days.
In comparison to the 31 patients on placebo, the 31 receiving the hydroxychloroquine adjunct to standard treatment were reported to have significantly shorter average time to recover normal body temperature (2.2 vs 3.2 days, P = .0008) and time to cessation of cough (2.0 vs 3.1 days, P = .0016). A larger proportion of patients on hydroxychloroquine than placebo also demonstrated an improved chest CT (80.6% vs 54.8%), with 61.3% of the treatment group having significant improvement. In addition, the 4 patients in the trial who deteriorated from mild to severe acuity were all in the placebo group."Despite our small number of cases, the potential of hydroxychloroquine in the treatment of COVID-19 has been partially confirmed," Zhang and colleagues concluded.
https://www.contagionlive.com/news/results-from-a-controlled-trial-of-hydroxychloroquine-for-covid19

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It's like being the highest ranked PAC-12 football team. Still not all that much to be proud of.

Jedi level analogy there.