Coronavirus Thread

[armeck]

First, you state we’re not concerned about the Flu. I don’t know why you keep saying that. Where I am, it’s actually still pretty active.

It's so odd, I keep seeing people say this and all I can think is that we quite obviously are concerned with the flu. Every year there are campaigns to get your flu shot, tips on how to safe during flu season, etc. It is so common place that it seems people don't notice it. Also, how odd to not be concerned with a few hundred thousand MORE deaths than usual? I just don't understand the push back of some people over recognizing this is some serious stuff we are talking about. Countries all over the world are shutting down over this so it can't be blamed on US media overreacting. Do we think Italy gives a crap about what CNN is reporting?

 

[dtm1997]

 

[Deleted member 2897]

US positive tests (approximate) last 7 days:
102
126
158
215
317
430
531

since this will be a big week for testing, I would expect us to get to a few thousand by next weekend. As long as we are not seeing large numbers of death seen by anybody other than very old people, maybe we will reach the pinnacle of the hysteria by then.

I missed updating this yesterday, and its getting kind of old anyway, but first thing in the morning today (so kind of 24 hours later), we're at 755. I fully expect with all the testing we're doing we'll be at like 2,000 by the end of the week. The main thing will be looking at what sort of serious medical issues people get and how many of them. This one is more respiratory in nature and we only have like 50,000 respirators in the entire country.

 

[RonJohn]

False.

You continue to state two incorrect things.

First, you state we’re not concerned about the Flu. I don’t know why you keep saying that. Where I am, it’s actually still pretty active.

Second, you ignore all the information health experts are stating about the higher levels of contagiousness and higher death rates with this one. I don’t know why you continue to do this.

I must have missed all of the posts where you have expressed concern about the flu and have pointed out that the exact same measures used to protect yourself against the flu also protect you from COVID-19. I have seen many of your posts:. 50 times the death rate of the flu!!! Skyrocketing infections!!!

You are ignoring the experts statements that the numbers are still raw. You are ignoring the experts saying don't panic. I don't know why you continue to do this.

I have not listened to or paid attention to any political shenanigans. I haven't looked at any statements or tweets by the President. I haven't looked at any statements by Democrats. I have looked at the CDC website. I have looked at the WHO website. I believe that it is dangerous to tell people either: There is nothing to worry about, or that this is a disease without precedent that is going to kill millions of people. What the actual experts are saying is: to remain calm, practice good hygiene, stay away from sick people, and if you are sick to stay away from healthy people. Those things are what will actually protect people, but everyone wants to concentrate on inaccurate data or make runs on surgical masks. The hype is hurting more than helping.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I must have missed all of the posts where you have expressed concern about the flu and have pointed out that the exact same measures used to protect yourself against the flu also protect you from COVID-19. I have seen many of your posts:. 50 times the death rate of the flu!!! Skyrocketing infections!!!

You are ignoring the experts statements that the numbers are still raw. You are ignoring the experts saying don't panic. I don't know why you continue to do this.

I have not listened to or paid attention to any political shenanigans. I haven't looked at any statements or tweets by the President. I haven't looked at any statements by Democrats. I have looked at the CDC website. I have looked at the WHO website. I believe that it is dangerous to tell people either: There is nothing to worry about, or that this is a disease without precedent that is going to kill millions of people. What the actual experts are saying is: to remain calm, practice good hygiene, stay away from sick people, and if you are sick to stay away from healthy people. Those things are what will actually protect people, but everyone wants to concentrate on inaccurate data or make runs on surgical masks. The hype is hurting more than helping.

I'm sorry you feel that way and I'm sorry you've interpreted my comments that way - or I'm sorry I typed things in a way that made you feel that way. I'm just posting what the healthcare experts and epidemiologists have said. If you have a problem with their level of concern about the differences in this disease, I suggest you take it up with them. I'm not panicking. I haven't changed a thing with my life.

Your last couple of sentences actually come pretty darned close to stating exactly what the experts have been stating and what I've been stating.

Reminder:
* There is no vaccine for this virus.
* This is a respiratory-oriented virus.
* The virus appears more contagious.
* The virus appears more deadly.

There is a lot we don't know. But the experts have seen enough for the last couple of months that they are worried. Did you read about some of the deaths in Seattle? The healthcare workers up there said they've never seen anything like it - people went from no symptoms to deadly sick in a matter of hours. Is the world going to end? No. But this virus is different and has a bad potential.

 

[CuseJacket]

I missed updating this yesterday, and its getting kind of old anyway, but first thing in the morning today (so kind of 24 hours later), we're at 755. I fully expect with all the testing we're doing we'll be at like 2,000 by the end of the week. The main thing will be looking at what sort of serious medical issues people get and how many of them. This one is more respiratory in nature and we only have like 50,000 respirators in the entire country.

Could we look to South Korea as the example, given they are months ahead of us in dealing with this? How do you interpret South Korea's data?

It seems to be the most reliable and comprehensive data out there, yet folks are focused on day-to-day numbers in countries that don't have complete testing or a meaningful sample size.

 

[RonJohn]

I'm sorry you feel that way and I'm sorry you've interpreted my comments that way - or I'm sorry I typed things in a way that made you feel that way. I'm just posting what the healthcare experts and epidemiologists have said. If you have a problem with their level of concern about the differences in this disease, I suggest you take it up with them. I'm not panicking. I haven't changed a thing with my life.

Your last couple of sentences actually come pretty darned close to stating exactly what the experts have been stating and what I've been stating.

Reminder:
* There is no vaccine for this virus.
* This is a respiratory-oriented virus.
* The virus appears more contagious.
* The virus appears more deadly.

There is a lot we don't know. But the experts have seen enough for the last couple of months that they are worried. Did you read about some of the deaths in Seattle? The healthcare workers up there said they've never seen anything like it - people went from no symptoms to deadly sick in a matter of hours. Is the world going to end? No. But this virus is different and has a bad potential.

It is true that there currently is no vaccine for this virus. It is true that the virus is respiratory-oriented, but so is the flu. Appears more contagious and appears more deadly are based on very raw data. From October thru February the flu infected 34-49 million people in the US. Is that not contagious? Is that not more infections than this virus worldwide? Well, we aren't exactly sure if it is more than this virus worldwide because there haven't been 49 million people in the world tested for this virus. Data for the flu can be modeled and estimated based on limited data, although much more complete data than for this virus. You have posted the available data for this virus, but it is very raw data and very incomplete data. If we were to blood test everyone in the United States to see what actual infection rates are, it would take months. It would then take time to analyze the data. People are looking for immediate knowledge and immediate answers. You can get immediate answers to the flu because it is well understood and modeled. However, even that estimated data has a 44% range. Why do people believe that we can get accurate data on a new virus if we have a 44% range on estimates for a virus that is well understood and well modeled?

The experts that I have read are not saying they are worried, they are saying that they are concerned. You yourself stated that one expert refused to be baited into being alarmist. The so-called news stations are putting forth people who they claim to be experts who are being alarmist. Why? Because it makes much more interesting television to be alarmist.

I have not advocated ignoring this virus. What I am advocating is following the CDC recommendations for respiratory diseases. Don't take my comments as shrugging off COVID-19. It shouldn't take a "scary" episode to get people to follow those guidelines. People should understand that the flu is a dangerous disease. There have been 20-52k deaths from the flu already this year. Following those guidelines might prevent 2,000 or 200,000 deaths this year from COVID-19, but following those guidelines every year could prevent 50,000 deaths every year. The emphasis should be on getting people to mitigate their risk to all respiratory diseases, which is what I believe the real experts have been attempting to do.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It is true that the virus is respiratory-oriented, but so is the flu. Appears more contagious and appears more deadly are based on very raw data. From October thru February the flu infected 34-49 million people in the US. Is that not contagious? Is that not more infections than this virus worldwide?

While I think most of what you said is on track according to what the experts are saying, I have cut out these specific comments to highlight you are in disagreement with them in key areas. Furthermore, note you are arguing with data that you say is not very accurate by comparing to data you know isn't even accurate. Is it 34 million, or is it 50% higher than that? I mean, I don't know what to tell you - if you don't think the respiratory effects of this virus and the level of contagiousness and the mortality rate compare to the Flu, you're just not listening to the experts.

 

[Techster]

Difference between Covid-19 and Flu:

Johns Hopkins https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Harvard https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog...many-questions-and-some-answers-2020022719004

Live Science https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

 

[jwsavhGT]

http://www.enkiops.org/blog/2020/03/10/the-decision-to-cancel-10-march-2020-notes/
The Decision To Cancel … (10 March 2020 Notes)
Posted on March 10, 2020

The US is now well in to the mode where state and local leaders are having to take key decisions on COVID-19 with respect to closures. It’s a difficult situation. The dilemma is that the available data indicates this has no more implications for the general population than a bad influenza strain. That’s not to minimize COVID19; the problem is we don’t take influenza as seriously as we probably should. The 2017 H3N2 strain hospitalized 810,000 people and killed about 61,000. The current modeling indicates that COVID19 will hospitalize 378 thousand, and kill about 20,000. Big numbers, but smaller than the flu. However …

… before you get too hopeful, for a vulnerable part of the population, COVID19 is pretty bad. Elderly, those with immune disorders, and so forth suffer higher mortality rates from COVID than influenza. But the biggest issue is that it is going to cause a huge stress on the hospital system, especially acute care and ICU’s across the country. The seasonal flu is more or less spread out over time. COVID is likely to have the cases concentrated in a shorter surge. Lets look at the Savannah GA metro area again as an example. Depending on the effectiveness of mitigation measures in slowing the progress and stretching out the “surge”, we can expect over 500 “excess” hospitalizations starting in about the last week of March and run through the end of April or early May. This in a community that has a bit under 1400 beds (3.4 per thousand, which isn’t bad by US standards). That will swamp the system.

A big source of spread are large groups of people sharing a common environment like, say, a big festival or parade. A huge problem is that a large number of people are exposed within a short period of time, meaning they fall sick at about the same time. It may not change to total numbers too much, but it does change the stress on the health care system to have them all crash at once. Let’s say that around March 17th you hold a series of festivals, starting the weekend before. It’s hugely important to the local economy, so you press on. How does that change the numbers? Modeling this kind of thing is an inexact art (while it is science, it’s pretty fuzzy sometimes), but it can provide some perspective. If we plug in the visitors (the population nearly doubles, bringing all sorts of interesting diseases with them) and increased interactions among locals into our model, we go from 500 “excess” hospitalizations to around 1000, and fatalities jump from 30 or so to between 65 and 75 (just among locals; we don’t care about visitors after they have given us their money and gone home ).

As I’ve indicated a number of times, my major concern is the economy. The panic can be worse than the pandemic – and will potentially harm more people. While no one will directly die from canceling a major cultural event, thousands will lose income, which causes lots of secondary problems that results in shorter, less happy lives. It’s very hard to put numbers to that harm but it is significant. Now, you could argue this should have been planned for and contingencies put in to place long ago to deal with both the health care system and economic impacts. And you’d be right. But that’s in the past: we have to fight the war we have with the tools we have.

If it seems I’m being inconsistent here, you’re right. What’s best for a society isn’t always best for the individual, and vice versa. You have to strike a balance. What is best for society and the economy is to limit closures, accept the excess mortality, and press on. What is best for vulnerable individuals is to Shut Down Everything. But, that carries a hidden cost in lives as well – disrupted economies kill too, just not as blatantly as a virus. When I’ve taught Emergency Management I always emphasize that no matter what you do, TANSTAAFL (There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). You’re going to hurt, even kill people. So, politicians, there you are. It’s harsh, but: Who are you going to kill, and why? Skip the platitudes and explain your choice …

As a repeat, here are the practical advice. In short, same as it ever was: Wash your hands, don’t touch your face, don’t freak out. The best source of practical information is at the CDC web site, and the DHS/FEMA “ready.gov” pandemic preparation site. Essentially, these are common sense actions. But here are a couple of things to emphasize: If you or a member of your family is over 65 (and especially over 75), or has health problems (especially respiratory or immune system issues), you should take some extra precautions. Avoid crowds, limit travel where you will be exposed to people, be super-fastidious about hygiene, and so forth, until this thing subsides, hopefully in a few months. If you have family in the hospital or long term care facility (or living on their own for that matter) you may need to hold off visiting for a while. Call often, make sure they are OK, and that they understand why this needs to be. Some other suggestions are to get a good thermometer (the no-touch ones are getting reasonably priced, just make sure it is reliable), and build a “baseline” temperature profile for your family. 98.6F is the accepted average, but that may not be your number. A two degree above normal temperature is considered a fever. My “normal” temperature is around a degree lower than that, so if I’m at 99.6, I’m running a two degree temperature and something’s up.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Difference between Covid-19 and Flu:

Johns Hopkins https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

Harvard https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog...many-questions-and-some-answers-2020022719004

Live Science https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

For the TLDNR folks:
* Unlike the Flu, COVID-19 might be spread through the airborne route, meaning that tiny droplets remaining in the air could cause disease in others even after the ill person is no longer near
* The novel Coronavirus is called severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, or SARS-CoV-2
* No vaccine is available at this time
* Coronavirus mortality rate is thought to be higher than that of most strains of the flu
* According to the WHO, coronaviruses may survive on surfaces for just a few hours or several days
* A recent study, considered the largest on COVID-19 cases to date, researchers from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Protection, analyzed 44,672 confirmed cases in China between Dec. 31, 2019 and Feb. 11, 2020. Of those cases, 4.7% (2,087) were critical. Critical cases were those that exhibited respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure.
* The basic reproduction/transmission number for the Flu (number of people the average person spreads it to) is 1.3, whereas with the Coronavirus it is between 2-3.

In the Live Science article, it gives a long list of mortality rates by location to note how these things have varied so far. While the Flu is around a 0.1% mortality rate, they've seen locations with the Coronavirus of 0.4%, 1.4%, and 2.9%

Extra material from my me - mortality rates:
* Flu: 0.1%
* SARS: 7%
* MERS: 34%
* Coronavirus: unknown, but see above for various estimates.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

http://www.enkiops.org/blog/2020/03/10/the-decision-to-cancel-10-march-2020-notes/
The Decision To Cancel … (10 March 2020 Notes)
Posted on March 10, 2020

The US is now well in to the mode where state and local leaders are having to take key decisions on COVID-19 with respect to closures. It’s a difficult situation. The dilemma is that the available data indicates this has no more implications for the general population than a bad influenza strain. That’s not to minimize COVID19; the problem is we don’t take influenza as seriously as we probably should. The 2017 H3N2 strain hospitalized 810,000 people and killed about 61,000. The current modeling indicates that COVID19 will hospitalize 378 thousand, and kill about 20,000. Big numbers, but smaller than the flu. However …

… before you get too hopeful, for a vulnerable part of the population, COVID19 is pretty bad. Elderly, those with immune disorders, and so forth suffer higher mortality rates from COVID than influenza. But the biggest issue is that it is going to cause a huge stress on the hospital system, especially acute care and ICU’s across the country. The seasonal flu is more or less spread out over time. COVID is likely to have the cases concentrated in a shorter surge. Lets look at the Savannah GA metro area again as an example. Depending on the effectiveness of mitigation measures in slowing the progress and stretching out the “surge”, we can expect over 500 “excess” hospitalizations starting in about the last week of March and run through the end of April or early May. This in a community that has a bit under 1400 beds (3.4 per thousand, which isn’t bad by US standards). That will swamp the system.

A big source of spread are large groups of people sharing a common environment like, say, a big festival or parade. A huge problem is that a large number of people are exposed within a short period of time, meaning they fall sick at about the same time. It may not change to total numbers too much, but it does change the stress on the health care system to have them all crash at once. Let’s say that around March 17th you hold a series of festivals, starting the weekend before. It’s hugely important to the local economy, so you press on. How does that change the numbers? Modeling this kind of thing is an inexact art (while it is science, it’s pretty fuzzy sometimes), but it can provide some perspective. If we plug in the visitors (the population nearly doubles, bringing all sorts of interesting diseases with them) and increased interactions among locals into our model, we go from 500 “excess” hospitalizations to around 1000, and fatalities jump from 30 or so to between 65 and 75 (just among locals; we don’t care about visitors after they have given us their money and gone home ).

As I’ve indicated a number of times, my major concern is the economy. The panic can be worse than the pandemic – and will potentially harm more people. While no one will directly die from canceling a major cultural event, thousands will lose income, which causes lots of secondary problems that results in shorter, less happy lives. It’s very hard to put numbers to that harm but it is significant. Now, you could argue this should have been planned for and contingencies put in to place long ago to deal with both the health care system and economic impacts. And you’d be right. But that’s in the past: we have to fight the war we have with the tools we have.

If it seems I’m being inconsistent here, you’re right. What’s best for a society isn’t always best for the individual, and vice versa. You have to strike a balance. What is best for society and the economy is to limit closures, accept the excess mortality, and press on. What is best for vulnerable individuals is to Shut Down Everything. But, that carries a hidden cost in lives as well – disrupted economies kill too, just not as blatantly as a virus. When I’ve taught Emergency Management I always emphasize that no matter what you do, TANSTAAFL (There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch). You’re going to hurt, even kill people. So, politicians, there you are. It’s harsh, but: Who are you going to kill, and why? Skip the platitudes and explain your choice …

As a repeat, here are the practical advice. In short, same as it ever was: Wash your hands, don’t touch your face, don’t freak out. The best source of practical information is at the CDC web site, and the DHS/FEMA “ready.gov” pandemic preparation site. Essentially, these are common sense actions. But here are a couple of things to emphasize: If you or a member of your family is over 65 (and especially over 75), or has health problems (especially respiratory or immune system issues), you should take some extra precautions. Avoid crowds, limit travel where you will be exposed to people, be super-fastidious about hygiene, and so forth, until this thing subsides, hopefully in a few months. If you have family in the hospital or long term care facility (or living on their own for that matter) you may need to hold off visiting for a while. Call often, make sure they are OK, and that they understand why this needs to be. Some other suggestions are to get a good thermometer (the no-touch ones are getting reasonably priced, just make sure it is reliable), and build a “baseline” temperature profile for your family. 98.6F is the accepted average, but that may not be your number. A two degree above normal temperature is considered a fever. My “normal” temperature is around a degree lower than that, so if I’m at 99.6, I’m running a two degree temperature and something’s up.

Some of that is particularly pertinent in Augusta right now. The Augusta National sent out a notice last week, that they were not planning on cancelling the Masters tournament or limiting attendance. If they were to do either of those two things, the Augusta economy would take a massive hit, with people in hotels and restaurants and even some businesses losing massive amounts of income, not to mention people who rent out their homes for the week. There are some even here in Augusta who are demanding that the tournament be cancelled, but they obviously will not, or think they will not, be affected by a cancellation. The next few weeks are going to be very interesting here. People who buy their tickets on the "market" are almost definitely not going to be getting their money back, nor are official ticket holders, although I guess there is a slim chance the National would give refunds. But those who bought their tickets "legally" and sell them on the "market" are most assuredly not going to refund what they got for their tickets, which runs into the thousands of dollars. A LOT OF MONEY WILL BE LOST, if the tournament is cancelled or attendance is blocked.

 

[RonJohn]

While I think most of what you said is on track according to what the experts are saying, I have cut out these specific comments to highlight you are in disagreement with them in key areas. Furthermore, note you are arguing with data that you say is not very accurate by comparing to data you know isn't even accurate. Is it 34 million, or is it 50% higher than that? I mean, I don't know what to tell you - if you don't think the respiratory effects of this virus and the level of contagiousness and the mortality rate compare to the Flu, you're just not listening to the experts.

I have not said that this virus isn't as contagious as the flu nor that it doesn't have the mortality rate of the flu. I didn't say that flu data is extremely accurate. My statement was intended to show that even with decades of knowledge and study that the estimates presented by experts for the flu has a range of 44%. You are correct, is it 34 million or 44% more than 34 million? My question is : How on earth do you think the numbers presented for COVID-19 are accurate when numbers for a well known disease are so difficult to compile?

@CuseJacket has attempted to bring data from South Korea into the conversation since they have done more testing than other places. However, even in South Korea, they have not done blood tests on 100% of the population, so the number of people infected could be higher. It is also possible that more people will die after being cleared of the disease, so the mortality rate could increase.

If we ever have accurate information on COVID-19, it will be several months from now. Minute to minute nor day to day data is really useful for drawing conclusions. Months from now scientists might be able to proclaim what the infection rates, infection spread rates, and mortality rates were. At the moment, they cannot. People should be more concerned about cleaning their hands and not touching their faces than with very inaccurate numbers. News organizations should stress cleaning hands and not touching faces as a matter of public service instead of trying to hold people's attention with alarmist positions.

 

[jwsavhGT]

A little education never hurts...

https://www.cleanlink.com/news/arti...utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailySM20200310
SARS-CoV-2 And COVID-19: What's The Difference?
As the number of infected persons grows globally, health officials share more information about the coronavirus disease. Keeping that information straight, at the rate it's changing, can be challenging for those tasked with stopping its spread. To help, the CleanLink team researched the terms that are causing much of the confusion.

When this latest infection was first reported in China, experts were calling it the "2019 novel coronavirus," which is simply a new coronavirus that had not been previously identified. As time went on, health officials identified it as COVID-19 and now, intertwined with that is SARS-CoV-2.

According to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), there are actually multiple types of coronaviruses, some of which commonly cause mild upper-respiratory tract illnesses. There are seven types of coronavirus that infect humans, three of which evolved from animal strains.

Because there are many coronavirus types, referring to it simply as "coronavirus" is very general. The CDC and World Health Organization (WHO) encourage experts to use COVID-19 when referring to this new disease, a novel (or new) coronavirus that has not previously been seen in humans. In COVID-19, ‘CO’ stands for ‘corona,’ ‘VI’ for ‘virus,’ ‘D’ for disease and 19 indicates the year it was discovered.

Just as the general public has become familiar with this terminology, officials have also begun using SARS-CoV-2 in connection with the recent outbreak. Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, shortened to SARS-CoV-2, is actually the virus that causes COVID-19 (the disease). As the name indicates, this virus is genetically related to the SARS-associated coronavirus (SARS-CoV) that caused an outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in 2002-2003, however it is not the same virus.

How do all these terms fit together? "Coronavirus" is a generic term that includes a large family of viruses, similar to saying someone has the flu. SARS-CoV-2 is a specific virus that can cause COVID-19, a disease. As WHO explains, this is similar to differentiating HIV and AIDS — HIV is a virus that causes AIDS. Outlined on their website, "People often know the name of a disease, such as measles, but not the name of the virus that causes it (rubeola)."

Whether talking about the virus or the disease, it's important to practice and share best practices for cleaning and disinfecting. The CDC offers standard recommendations for everyday preventive actions to help prevent the spread of respiratory diseases, here.

 

[jwsavhGT]

A little humor never hurts...

Police Ask Public To Stop Stealing Their Toilet Paper
At least one person in a smallish Utah community is so concerned about the lack of toilet paper available on store shelves right now that the thief is stealing the tissue from probably the worst source possible: the police.

The Kaysville Police Department took to its Facebook page to condemn the ongoing theft of toilet paper from its restrooms, reports KSL-TV in Salt Lake City.

An officer told KSL that its mens' restrooms have been devoid of toilet paper lately despite the fact that one of its employees is routinely stocking a supply that shouldn't be running out so fast. The women's restrooms have yet to be hit.

The toilet paper theft coincides with a mass toilet paper shortage in the Salt Lake City area. Things have gotten so bad that a Costco in the city has limited the amount of toilet paper a customer can purchase at a time to three cases.

 

[RonJohn]

A little humor never hurts...

Police Ask Public To Stop Stealing Their Toilet Paper
At least one person in a smallish Utah community is so concerned about the lack of toilet paper available on store shelves right now that the thief is stealing the tissue from probably the worst source possible: the police.

The Kaysville Police Department took to its Facebook page to condemn the ongoing theft of toilet paper from its restrooms, reports KSL-TV in Salt Lake City.

An officer told KSL that its mens' restrooms have been devoid of toilet paper lately despite the fact that one of its employees is routinely stocking a supply that shouldn't be running out so fast. The women's restrooms have yet to be hit.

The toilet paper theft coincides with a mass toilet paper shortage in the Salt Lake City area. Things have gotten so bad that a Costco in the city has limited the amount of toilet paper a customer can purchase at a time to three cases.

I guess I haven't been paying attention to mainstream news sources, or Twitter, and I don't have Facebook. Why is there a run on toilet paper? I bought a large box at Sam's about a week ago, but that was because we were almost out. I don't understand why people think toilet paper is needed for a potential virus pandemic.

 

[sidewalkGTfan]

I guess I haven't been paying attention to mainstream news sources, or Twitter, and I don't have Facebook. Why is there a run on toilet paper? I bought a large box at Sam's about a week ago, but that was because we were almost out. I don't understand why people think toilet paper is needed for a potential virus pandemic.

Because nobody wants to find themselves on the can and out of toilet paper during the apocalypse.

 

[Techster]

 

[RonJohn]

Because nobody wants to find themselves on the can and out of toilet paper during the apocalypse.

Well if I am still on Earth after the apocalypse, I think how clean my butt is will be one of the least of my worries.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Well if I am still on Earth after the apocalypse, I think how clean my butt is will be one of the least of my worries.

That’s right, priorities matter. For example, here’s a guy who crapped his pants and crossed the rest of Antarctica with a disaster crotch.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/o...-pooped-his-pants-halfway-through/vi-BB1002mA