Coronavirus Thread

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RonJohn

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flounder said:
Because they're happening at the same time. 2 times the number of flu patients > number of beds available.
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The concern and hype that I have seen hasn't been about flu and COVID-19 doubling the standard care needed for flu. It has been about how scary and deadly COVID-19 is. Also, the flu season is almost over. If there are that many hospitalizations of COVID-19, they will likely ramp up as hospitalizations for the flu ramp down.

People are scared of a disease the maybe-might kill 20-60k Americans. However, they are not concerned whatsoever about a disease that is with hard data estimated to kill 20-50k Americans. People are desperate for ways to mitigate risk of COVID-19, but they are ignoring the documented ways of mitigating risk of the flu which also mitigate risk of COVID-19.
 

MWBATL

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bwelbo said:
6,000 people in Italy have tested positive in the past 3 days. About 400 people have died in the last 3 days. The Prime Minister today announced a quarantine of the entire country. Wow.
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..and the AVERAGE age of those dying was 81 years old. Most often with underlying health issues. It remains quite true that this illness primarily attacks the elderly.
 

takethepoints

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LibertyTurns said:
And the government would never lie about being lazy or incompetent? Maybe they’re just too dense to know the difference? I’m not a lover of all things government like you Nanny State types. Koreans, etc managed to get kits produced to test their people. Only the US and third world countries were unable to get moving on this. We blocked companies with the capability to excel and our fine government bureaucrats did so without a care in the world. We should be firing these bastards, but that would be accountability and we can’t have that. It’s sad damn near everyone outperforms us these days, but we get what we deserve in the end. We put these imbeciles in charge and damn there’s a ton of them sucking us to death in every corner of government.
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Look, you know as well as I do why other countries have outperformed us on this: they all have national health services and we don't. There are some things you can let markets do. They're great for dry cleaning and building computers. They suck at providing health care for reasons outlined by Kenneth Arrow in 1963; it's the one thing markets are almost certain to fail at. Here's the paper:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

You'd think we all would have learned this by now. I sympathize with your frustration about government - we've spent the last 50 years playing the "Government sucks -> Let's reduce the amount of money we are wasting on it -> Government capacity is reduced -> See? I told you government sucks" game and it has worked. It's about time for us to stop, especially in providing health care.
 

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takethepoints said:
Look, you know as well as I do why other countries have outperformed us on this: they all have national health services and we don't. There are some things you can let markets do. They're great for dry cleaning and building computers. They suck at providing health care for reasons outlined by Kenneth Arrow in 1963; it's the one thing markets are almost certain to fail at. Here's the paper:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

You'd think we all would have learned this by now. I sympathize with your frustration about government - we've spent the last 50 years playing the "Government sucks -> Let's reduce the amount of money we are wasting on it -> Government capacity is reduced -> See? I told you government sucks" game and it has worked. It's about time for us to stop, especially in providing health care.
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Government healthcare is the worst run business in the country. I don't think we want to double down on that.
 
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Supersizethatorder-mutt

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takethepoints said:
Look, you know as well as I do why other countries have outperformed us on this: they all have national health services and we don't. There are some things you can let markets do. They're great for dry cleaning and building computers. They suck at providing health care for reasons outlined by Kenneth Arrow in 1963; it's the one thing markets are almost certain to fail at. Here's the paper:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

You'd think we all would have learned this by now. I sympathize with your frustration about government - we've spent the last 50 years playing the "Government sucks -> Let's reduce the amount of money we are wasting on it -> Government capacity is reduced -> See? I told you government sucks" game and it has worked. It's about time for us to stop, especially in providing health care.
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I'm not sure why you think other countries have outperformed us on this. How have they done that? We instituted an incoming travel ban in January, in spite of all the calls from the left that it was RACISM. Where we have been let down is by the CDC and FDA dragging their feet on producing and providing test kits. And both the CDC and FDA I might remind you are GOVERNMENT agencies !!! Few, if any, other countries had any kind of incoming travel bans, and so the cases in those countries have skyrocketed. So much for their outperforming us. Yes, they have been able to test, when we have so far not been able to do so to the extent needed. And yet the number of known infections and deaths are far, far lower in the US than in those other countries. I don't know what markets you are talking about, but with government acquiescence, the US sold out to China in the pharmaceutical market (and many others as well) several years ago, and long before Trump. So now, the majority of pharmaceuticals used and needed in this country come from China. We have very few pharmaceutical companies in the US producing needed pharmaceuticals, thanks to GOVERNMENT acquiescence, so that we are now at the mercy of the Chinese, who hate us to begin with. If they close the "market", which they are fully capable, and possibly even desirous, of doing, then we are screwed.
 
LibertyTurns

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@takethepoints OMG you cite a paper by some academic with ZERO data to support his claims that government is the solution to all our problems. We had the best healthcare in the US until we exploded the size of the FDA, dramatically increased the size Medicare/Medicaid and started demanding doctors run tests even when not required, allowed the court systems to permit frivolous claims to get rewarded causing skyrocketing malpractice premiums both for doctors and companies doing the R&D on drugs, medical devices, etc. I’m sure I left off a few elements government destroyed in our healthcare system. The politicians need to look no further than the mirror as to who and what caused this. Politicians currying political favor developing processes & institutions to support cronies and family members to enrich themselves and increase their power. hat we have isn’t free market at all, it’s socialized healthcare & you want to take a bad system and increase it’s scope & size? I’m glad you’re not working at my company.
 

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RonJohn said:
The population of the US in 2018 was 327.2 million. 0.14% of 327.2 million is 458,000. About the same number as estimated to be hospitalized for flu in the 2019-2020 flu season. Why should we be concerned about this, but not the flu?
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Because the article stated something different. Why would I be concerned about a couple million in the hospital and maybe 100,000 combined dead from the different Flus? LOL.
 

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RonJohn said:
The concern and hype that I have seen hasn't been about flu and COVID-19 doubling the standard care needed for flu. It has been about how scary and deadly COVID-19 is. Also, the flu season is almost over. If there are that many hospitalizations of COVID-19, they will likely ramp up as hospitalizations for the flu ramp down.

People are scared of a disease the maybe-might kill 20-60k Americans. However, they are not concerned whatsoever about a disease that is with hard data estimated to kill 20-50k Americans. People are desperate for ways to mitigate risk of COVID-19, but they are ignoring the documented ways of mitigating risk of the flu which also mitigate risk of COVID-19.
Click to expand...

False.

You continue to state two incorrect things.

First, you state we’re not concerned about the Flu. I don’t know why you keep saying that. Where I am, it’s actually still pretty active.

Second, you ignore all the information health experts are stating about the higher levels of contagiousness and higher death rates with this one. I don’t know why you continue to do this.
 

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takethepoints said:
Look, you know as well as I do why other countries have outperformed us on this: they all have national health services and we don't. There are some things you can let markets do. They're great for dry cleaning and building computers. They suck at providing health care for reasons outlined by Kenneth Arrow in 1963; it's the one thing markets are almost certain to fail at. Here's the paper:

https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/82/2/PHCBP.pdf

You'd think we all would have learned this by now. I sympathize with your frustration about government - we've spent the last 50 years playing the "Government sucks -> Let's reduce the amount of money we are wasting on it -> Government capacity is reduced -> See? I told you government sucks" game and it has worked. It's about time for us to stop, especially in providing health care.
Click to expand...

By a country mile, and it’s not even close, Medicare is by far the worst run federal government program. And by the way, our regular health insurance system is not a free and competitive market system either.
 
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