Coronavirus Thread

[LibertyTurns]

Unfortunately there are no good choices. The extreme choices: Open schools completely with no restrictions -- would cause more disease and more death. Hold the kids back a year(or two, or three) until the virus is eradicated will cause some kids to get so far behind they never catch up. There are some measures that are in between, but none of them can eliminate both negatives. No matter what the country/state/school system decides to do, there will be negative consequences.

There’s plenty of choices and my district is evaluating many different options here. For example:

a. Two five hour sessions per day, kids attend one of the two sessions. Cut out all the Bs classes like I have 2 Mommies and he has 2 Daddies and focus strictly on Math, English, Reading, Science and History. Older kids ditch the reading and get another core class. Elective BS crap done at home online because nobody cares if you learn that or not. This gets you to 50% classrooms, Sat & Sun off. Teachers have a 50 hr work week, stop the presses !!!

b. Three sessions of 4 hrs per day, 6 days per week. This creates a teacher shortage so OT would cover until the gap was met. Teachers would teach 8 hrs per day for 6 days; 6 hrs in class and 2 hrs online. Same rules for BS classes. Teachers have a 48 hr workload and some extra staffing required. OT upfront to cover shortfall. Reduces classrooms to 1/3 of capacity.

c. In class 1 week, at home the next. Kids alternate in class and when they’re home they watch live broadcast. Same classes as before.

There’s other but this is hardly unsolvable nor is it a binary deal. That will appeal to the alphabet soup crowd.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Same here. We’re looking at primarily a Mon/Wed and Tues/Thurs mode, where half the class goes on each of those. When you’re off, you’re online joining via web meetings remote. Friday is remote for everyone and they clean the school down while everyone is out.

The Governor said over 10,000 students went AWOL when they went online. Never heard from them at all ever again. Online only will delegate many kids to losing years of their education.

 

[RonJohn]

There’s plenty of choices and my district is evaluating many different options here. For example:

a. Two five hour sessions per day, kids attend one of the two sessions. Cut out all the Bs classes like I have 2 Mommies and he has 2 Daddies and focus strictly on Math, English, Reading, Science and History. Older kids ditch the reading and get another core class. Elective BS crap done at home online because nobody cares if you learn that or not. This gets you to 50% classrooms, Sat & Sun off. Teachers have a 50 hr work week, stop the presses !!!

b. Three sessions of 4 hrs per day, 6 days per week. This creates a teacher shortage so OT would cover until the gap was met. Teachers would teach 8 hrs per day for 6 days; 6 hrs in class and 2 hrs online. Same rules for BS classes. Teachers have a 48 hr workload and some extra staffing required. OT upfront to cover shortfall. Reduces classrooms to 1/3 of capacity.

c. In class 1 week, at home the next. Kids alternate in class and when they’re home they watch live broadcast. Same classes as before.

There’s other but this is hardly unsolvable nor is it a binary deal. That will appeal to the alphabet soup crowd.

I wasn't saying there are zero choices, only that all choices have negative consequences. All of the scenarios you list still have teachers in class with students. All of the scenarios you list still have less in person teacher time available for educationally at risk students. Under any of those scenarios, it is still more likely that some teachers/parents/grandparents will get sick. Under any of those scenarios, it is still more likely that some students will get hopelessly behind and end up not getting a high school diploma.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I wasn't saying there are zero choices, only that all choices have negative consequences. All of the scenarios you list still have teachers in class with students. All of the scenarios you list still have less in person teacher time available for educationally at risk students. Under any of those scenarios, it is still more likely that some teachers/parents/grandparents will get sick. Under any of those scenarios, it is still more likely that some students will get hopelessly behind and end up not getting a high school diploma.

During a normal school year, many students get hopelessly behind and don’t graduate. “More Likely” could be 20% more likely, or could be 1% more likely. People have an option to go only online if they want. If they choose to go to school, they’re choosing to not hide under a rock. When I go run errands, it is more likely I’ll die - car crash, I could be shot, and any number of other things. I can choose to stay home if I want.

 

[RonJohn]

During a normal school year, many students get hopelessly behind and don’t graduate. “More Likely” could be 20% more likely, or could be 1% more likely. People have an option to go only online if they want. If they choose to go to school, they’re choosing to not hide under a rock. When I go run errands, it is more likely I’ll die - car crash, I could be shot, and any number of other things. I can choose to stay home if I want.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that: Having in person school has risk. Having online only school has risk. Having no school has risk.

Some people are proposing having school with no mitigation. Some people are proposing delaying school until there is a vaccine available. The virus is not the only risk in society. People point out he negatives of any proposal. Arguing to reduce one risk as much as possible is arguing to increase the other risk as much as possible. No matter what a school system does, there will be risk.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that: Having in person school has risk. Having online only school has risk. Having no school has risk.

Some people are proposing having school with no mitigation. Some people are proposing delaying school until there is a vaccine available. The virus is not the only risk in society. People point out he negatives of any proposal. Arguing to reduce one risk as much as possible is arguing to increase the other risk as much as possible. No matter what a school system does, there will be risk.

Without a virus, each of those options carries risks. At some point it’s an exercise in analysis by paralysis.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that: Having in person school has risk. Having online only school has risk. Having no school has risk.

Some people are proposing having school with no mitigation. Some people are proposing delaying school until there is a vaccine available. The virus is not the only risk in society. People point out he negatives of any proposal. Arguing to reduce one risk as much as possible is arguing to increase the other risk as much as possible. No matter what a school system does, there will be risk.

Sorry man, this makes no sense. Everything has risk, so we need to do nothing, but that has risk too. There was risk before, there’s risk now, there will be risk tomorrow. There’s just different risk levels. Always has been, always will be.

 

[RonJohn]

Without a virus, each of those options carries risks. At some point it’s an exercise in analysis by paralysis.

I don't understand what you think I am saying. I believe we are saying about the same thing.

You can't stop living. Some people will die from this virus specifically because schools are opened. That is life. Some students will drop out of education specifically because schools are not as responsive to their needs. That is life.

To demand that the school system, the government, Santa Claus, or whoever prevent every COVID-19 death is a fantasy. To demand that the government school system not allow a single child to fall behind in the current situation is a fantasy. People are going to die. People are going to lose their economic stability. People are going to lose their homes. Children are going to be left behind educationally. It isn't the fault of the government. It isn't the fault of liberals. It isn't the fault of conservatives. It is a virus. It is life.

 

[RonJohn]

Sorry man, this makes no sense. Everything has risk, so we need to do nothing, but that has risk too. There was risk before, there’s risk now, there will be risk tomorrow. There’s just different risk levels. Always has been, always will be.

You and @bwelbo seem to be putting words in my mouth. Everything does have risk. The point I have been trying to make is that risk will not be eliminated by any possible method of schooling. At one end(no school), you minimize(not eliminate) risk of virus but maximize risk of educational failure. At the other end, you minimize(not eliminate) the risk of educational failure but maximize the risk of virus. The majority of people that I have heard are not discussing relative risks to health and education. They are making hard claims to one extreme such as you can't put teachers in a room with kids because they will die.

I see from your posts that you understand that the choices aren't to have zero school or to have school exactly like it was last year. Unfortunately all of the press and all of the public discussion seems to be that we need one of those. Any compromise for partial school and you get some arguing that ANY teacher in ANY class is too much risk while others argue that their schedule will be interrupted if their kids aren't in class from 8-4 Monday thru Friday. There are methods to use. You posted some from your local school. People will die. It will be inconvenient for parents. It will cause more kids to fail at education. There is no solution that will solve every problem. People should understand that and stop looking at only the negatives to only one of those areas.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I wasn't saying there are zero choices, only that all choices have negative consequences. All of the scenarios you list still have teachers in class with students. All of the scenarios you list still have less in person teacher time available for educationally at risk students. Under any of those scenarios, it is still more likely that some teachers/parents/grandparents will get sick. Under any of those scenarios, it is still more likely that some students will get hopelessly behind and end up not getting a high school diploma.

You said “...there are no good choices...”. I gave you 3. You replied “...all choices have negative consequences”. I’m not sure why you seem to think it’s all bad. I think we’ll have better schooling than we ever had before at extremely low risk certainly not lots of people dying. People will die, they always do, but not at any higher rate than they would have with or without classes and with or without C19. We’ll have smaller classes, less BS content, teachers that want to be there, parents committed to educating their kids, etc. Everybody else can stay home & whine. We can’t solve every problem for everyone no matter how bad the Nanny State wants to.

 

[RonJohn]

You said “...there are no good choices...”. I gave you 3. You replied “...all choices have negative consequences”. I’m not sure why you seem to think it’s all bad. I think we’ll have better schooling than we ever had before at extremely low risk certainly not lots of people dying. People will die, they always do, but not at any higher rate than they would have with or without classes and with or without C19. We’ll have smaller classes, less BS content, teachers that want to be there, parents committed to educating their kids, etc. Everybody else can stay home & whine. We can’t solve every problem for everyone no matter how bad the Nanny State wants to.

You are totally misinterpreting what I am saying.

What I mean by "no good choices" is that there are no choices without negative consequences.

• People will likely die at a higher rate from any of the scenarios you listed. Children in class will mean that the virus is spread. Some of those children will pass the virus to their families, including people at risk. Teachers in class will likely mean that some of those teachers will contract the virus at school.
• Children will have less time with their teachers under any of the scenarios you listed. Children at risk educationally will be even more likely to fail at education.

I don't say that as a pretense that we shouldn't do any of those. I say that to point out that the virus is causing issues and no matter what society does there will be consequences to the virus. My big point is that it isn't valid to argue that school cannot be held until the virus is eradicated. It also isn't valid to argue that school should be held with zero precautions related to the virus. No matter what a school system does, people will suffer. If all it takes to negate an idea is throw out only the negative consequences, then D-Day would have never happened, and we might be speaking German. We are in a pandemic. People will suffer. People need to stop whining about suffering and think about how to live after the virus.

 

[LibertyTurns]

We’re fine in Florida except for Miami metro area. Half the cases are down there now. As long as we can keep the chaos isolated, we’re getting back to normal everywhere else fairly soon.

 

[684Bee]

We’re fine in Florida except for Miami metro area. Half the cases are down there now. As long as we can keep the chaos isolated, we’re getting back to normal everywhere else fairly soon.

How is the panhandle faring?

 

[LibertyTurns]

How is the panhandle faring?

Not real sure. Haven’t heard anything about LA lately.

 

[Milwaukee]

It looks like Cancun is now open for Americans to visit. Time to book an August vacay.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't understand what you think I am saying. I believe we are saying about the same thing.

You can't stop living. Some people will die from this virus specifically because schools are opened. That is life. Some students will drop out of education specifically because schools are not as responsive to their needs. That is life.

To demand that the school system, the government, Santa Claus, or whoever prevent every COVID-19 death is a fantasy. To demand that the government school system not allow a single child to fall behind in the current situation is a fantasy. People are going to die. People are going to lose their economic stability. People are going to lose their homes. Children are going to be left behind educationally. It isn't the fault of the government. It isn't the fault of liberals. It isn't the fault of conservatives. It is a virus. It is life.

Reported to the Mods for personal attacks on Santa Claus.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It looks like Cancun is now open for Americans to visit. Time to book an August vacay.

Yep, just be careful for those viruses that make your wee wee burn.

 

[BeachBuzz]

How is the panhandle faring?

Panhandle is doing alright. Some surges here and there. I live in Gulf County and there was a fairly large surge this past week. There was one day where we added about 35 cases which was by far the biggest day we have had. I'm guessing it was a data dump. Panama City surged for a while but appears to be leveling off, we will see. Some cities have mask ordinances, while others don't. Okaloosa County (Destin), seems to be the hardest hit area along with Jackson County (large migrant population and a prison)

 

[JacketRacket]

Deaths went back over 1000 yesterday. Georgia also had its second highest death total yesterday. The rest of this week is going to be rough.

I haven't read too much into how pooling tests affects the results yet, but at least those seem to be staying steady?

 

[CTJacket]

I see from your posts that you understand that the choices aren't to have zero school or to have school exactly like it was last year. Unfortunately all of the press and all of the public discussion seems to be that we need one of those. Any compromise for partial school and you get some arguing that ANY teacher in ANY class is too much risk while others argue that their schedule will be interrupted if their kids aren't in class from 8-4 Monday thru Friday. There are methods to use. You posted some from your local school. People will die. It will be inconvenient for parents. It will cause more kids to fail at education. There is no solution that will solve every problem. People should understand that and stop looking at only the negatives to only one of those areas.

It's true, the binary choice has been politicized (as usual). I refuse to march to that beat. We just need to remember that in our communities we can try and support from the ground up. Be it by helping those that may not be able to work and support themselves if school isn't back or by supporting those that would make the classrooms safer (filters, spacing, whatever). Or just not being a jerk to people, that's pretty good too.

My daughter has been in an online school (Stanford OHS) for a couple of years so that part doesn't affect her. Swim, other things have been, and we've tried to be supportive. There are many tough decisions for people out there and I don't envy those. Good luck to those of you (and many have posted here) trying to figure out what's best for your family.