Coronavirus Thread

[ncjacket79]

There’s plenty of things people do that impact others & we don’t get all outraged about it. People overeat, smoke, etc. If I’m old & feeble I can stay at home & your behavior impacts me by restricting my freedom. You smoke, are obese, smoke dope, are an alcoholic, etc which are also things under your personal control & you drive my healthcare costs up to the point I can no longer afford coverage for myself and I get sicker/die sooner that I would have otherwise, well all of that is ok. I can’t avoid that by staying home, you’re screwing me 24 hrs a day everyday.

Of course if you I any of those things and directly impact me I can sue you. Driving up the cost of healthcare is a complicated issue that has many other factors involved than those you mention.

 

[GoldZ]

No, but it’s in the opt-in politics forum. You might need to go through the settings in John’s pinned post at the top of the Swarm Lounge to go to that forum.

---

———-
Saw this report this morning: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-2272_article.

They tracked the superspreader sites where 5-10 or more people were infected at one time in Japan. The study is Japanese, the CDC is sharing it in the US.

1. Healthcare facilities (30%) was the strongest source
2a. Nursing homes and day care centers were number 2 at 16%, tied with...
2b. Restaurants and bars
4. Offices and workplaces at 13% were next. Lots of time indoors next to others.
5. Music events (concerts/choir/karaoke) were fifth at 11%
6. Gyms were next at 8%. Possibly the saving grace is that people don’t spend 8 hours at a gym, usually.
7. Next came ceremonial occasions (birthdays, funerals, etc.) at 3%, and finally
8. Transportation (airplanes, etc.)

To make it short, being indoors in a crowd is bad. Breathing heavy in a shared space is risky (singing, exercising, etc.)

I haven’t put together the numbers to compare COVID infections vs. hang gliding, but while hang gliding may be riskier, it isn’t contagious.

Another factor is that a number of people have been saying “young people don’t have much or anything to worry about”. However, the strongest spreaders of COVID 19 in the study were in the 20-29 age range, and 30-39 was right behind them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I checked the yes and yes boxes yesterday. Still can't see my post or replies from yesterday. Suggestions?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I checked the yes and yes boxes yesterday. Still can't see my post or replies from yesterday. Suggestions?

I wouldn’t stress about it - it’s designed to be a black hole we throw things in that fewer and fewer people can ever see and use.

 

[Techster]

There’s plenty of things people do that impact others & we don’t get all outraged about it. People overeat, smoke, etc. If I’m old & feeble I can stay at home & your behavior impacts me by restricting my freedom. You smoke, are obese, smoke dope, are an alcoholic, etc which are also things under your personal control & you drive my healthcare costs up to the point I can no longer afford coverage for myself and I get sicker/die sooner that I would have otherwise, well all of that is ok. I can’t avoid that by staying home, you’re screwing me 24 hrs a day everyday.

This is not continuing any hysteria about the virus, but I really need to understand people's line of thinking when they compare the virus and its restrictions to something that has no transmission comparison.

If I'm an overheater while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you catching anything from me that turns you into an overeater.
If I smoke while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming a smoker even if you inhale second hand smoke.
If I'm an alcoholic and drink to blackout while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming and alcoholic.
If I abuse drugs while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming a drug abuser.
If I had cancer, there's zero chance of you catching it while you sit next to me.
If I had AIDs, and outside of me cutting myself open and intentionally putting my blood into your open wound, there's a zero chance of you catching AIDs...hell, Magic Johnson played NBA basketball when he was HIV positive.
If I get in a car wreck, and you're sitting in the seat next to me, you're not catching anything that makes you more prone to getting into a car wreck.

However, if I have the Covid virus, and you sit next to me...there's a pretty good chance you're gonna get it. If you get it, there's a pretty good chance of you spreading to your loved ones and coworkers if you don't find out you have it. If they catch it, there's a pretty good chance the spread will continue downstream. None of those instances I listed above really applies to the coronavirus.

The United States has pretty much thrown our hands in the air and said "F@ck the virus...we're gonna take our chances." That's fine, because at the end of the day we'll have to deal with the consequences. However, it's pretty disingenuous to compare the virus to your examples. The virus sucks, and to get rid of it we have to take steps that takes away things from our lives we're use to, and even economical losses we can't afford, but that's the price we have to pay because our response was one of the worst in the world.

So now we sit and wait for the fallout. The numbers are starting to coming in from opening up, and numbers are beginning to rise again in infections and hospitalizations. Now we're seeing much more spread in the less dense areas where they don't have the capacity or resources to fight this. It's the bed we all made, so now we all get to sleep in it.

 

[GoldZ]

Of course if you I any of those things and directly impact me I can sue you. Driving up the cost of healthcare is a complicated issue that has many other factors involved than those you mention.

Yes, and there are many factors involved in the inane: just shut in the old folks mantra.

 

[GoldZ]

This is not continuing any hysteria about the virus, but I really need to understand people's line of thinking when they compare the virus and its restrictions to something that has no transmission comparison.

If I'm an overheater while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you catching anything from me that turns you into an overeater.
If I smoke while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming a smoker even if you inhale second hand smoke.
If I'm an alcoholic and drink to blackout while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming and alcoholic.
If I abuse drugs while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming a drug abuser.
If I had cancer, there's zero chance of you catching it while you sit next to me.
If I had AIDs, and outside of me cutting myself open and intentionally putting my blood into your open wound, there's a zero chance of you catching AIDs...hell, Magic Johnson played NBA basketball when he was HIV positive.
If I get in a car wreck, and you're sitting in the seat next to me, you're not catching anything that makes you more prone to getting into a car wreck.

However, if I have the Covid virus, and you sit next to me...there's a pretty good chance you're gonna get it. If you get it, there's a pretty good chance of you spreading to your loved ones and coworkers if you don't find out you have it. If they catch it, there's a pretty good chance the spread will continue downstream. None of those instances I listed above really applies to the coronavirus.

The United States has pretty much thrown our hands in the air and said "F@ck the virus...we're gonna take our chances." That's fine, because at the end of the day we'll have to deal with the consequences. However, it's pretty disingenuous to compare the virus to your examples. The virus sucks, and to get rid of it we have to take steps that takes away things from our lives we're use to, and even economical losses we can't afford, but that's the price we have to pay because our response was one of the worst in the world.

So now we sit and wait for the fallout. The numbers are starting to coming in from opening up, and numbers are beginning to rise again in infections and hospitalizations. Now we're seeing much more spread in the less dense areas where they don't have the capacity or resources to fight this. It's the bed we all made, so now we all get to sleep in it.

LT seems more than capable of speaking for himself, but your entire list impacts society as a whole, does it not? Contagious or otherwise.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@Techster I’m going to respond to the above in political section.

Edit: OK I guess I’m not. Looks like we nuked the political section.

Edit #2: Wow that was quick. Nuke then un-nuke.

Edit #3: Need some new glasses. Was clicking on the top item which is locked not the 2nd one.

 

[Techster]

LT seems more than capable of speaking for himself, but your entire list impacts society as a whole, does it not? Contagious or otherwise.

That's a narrow argument to make because a person chooses to go down those paths. There's a difference between a chronic diseases and disorders (not counting my AIDs and Cancer examples) and an infectious disease. At any one point, you can get help or abstain from something that causes chronic diseases. At this point, there is no cure for the Covid 19 disease.

Anyone who's trying to compare any other medical or chronic issues to an infectious disease is just obfuscating. Everything impacts society as a whole. In the end we all die, so is that a good defense if I shoot you and you die from the gun shot?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

This is not continuing any hysteria about the virus, but I really need to understand people's line of thinking when they compare the virus and its restrictions to something that has no transmission comparison.

If I'm an overheater while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you catching anything from me that turns you into an overeater.
If I smoke while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming a smoker even if you inhale second hand smoke.
If I'm an alcoholic and drink to blackout while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming and alcoholic.
If I abuse drugs while you sit next to me, there's zero chance of you becoming a drug abuser.
If I had cancer, there's zero chance of you catching it while you sit next to me.
If I had AIDs, and outside of me cutting myself open and intentionally putting my blood into your open wound, there's a zero chance of you catching AIDs...hell, Magic Johnson played NBA basketball when he was HIV positive.
If I get in a car wreck, and you're sitting in the seat next to me, you're not catching anything that makes you more prone to getting into a car wreck.

However, if I have the Covid virus, and you sit next to me...there's a pretty good chance you're gonna get it. If you get it, there's a pretty good chance of you spreading to your loved ones and coworkers if you don't find out you have it. If they catch it, there's a pretty good chance the spread will continue downstream. None of those instances I listed above really applies to the coronavirus.

The United States has pretty much thrown our hands in the air and said "F@ck the virus...we're gonna take our chances." That's fine, because at the end of the day we'll have to deal with the consequences. However, it's pretty disingenuous to compare the virus to your examples. The virus sucks, and to get rid of it we have to take steps that takes away things from our lives we're use to, and even economical losses we can't afford, but that's the price we have to pay because our response was one of the worst in the world.

So now we sit and wait for the fallout. The numbers are starting to coming in from opening up, and numbers are beginning to rise again in infections and hospitalizations. Now we're seeing much more spread in the less dense areas where they don't have the capacity or resources to fight this. It's the bed we all made, so now we all get to sleep in it.

The premiums on my health insurance policy (what I pay plus my employer) are about $27,000/year. We have a healthy/fit family. A lot of what he's referring to comes from the fact that a high majority of our total healthcare costs from our own life choices. Health insurance companies spread these costs across all their customers. So while I can't get fat or drunk or ruined lungs from your behavior...true...my pocketbook gets decimated. Add up those health insurance costs across 10-20 years and you're talking about several hundred thousand dollars coming out of my pocket to pay for others' life choices.

This doesn't negate any of your feelings on COVID-19. Its a separate issue with equal validity.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

No, but it’s in the opt-in politics forum. You might need to go through the settings in John’s pinned post at the top of the Swarm Lounge to go to that forum.

---

———-
Saw this report this morning: https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-2272_article.

They tracked the superspreader sites where 5-10 or more people were infected at one time in Japan. The study is Japanese, the CDC is sharing it in the US.

1. Healthcare facilities (30%) was the strongest source
2a. Nursing homes and day care centers were number 2 at 16%, tied with...
2b. Restaurants and bars
4. Offices and workplaces at 13% were next. Lots of time indoors next to others.
5. Music events (concerts/choir/karaoke) were fifth at 11%
6. Gyms were next at 8%. Possibly the saving grace is that people don’t spend 8 hours at a gym, usually.
7. Next came ceremonial occasions (birthdays, funerals, etc.) at 3%, and finally
8. Transportation (airplanes, etc.)

To make it short, being indoors in a crowd is bad. Breathing heavy in a shared space is risky (singing, exercising, etc.)

I haven’t put together the numbers to compare COVID infections vs. hang gliding, but while hang gliding may be riskier, it isn’t contagious.

Another factor is that a number of people have been saying “young people don’t have much or anything to worry about”. However, the strongest spreaders of COVID 19 in the study were in the 20-29 age range, and 30-39 was right behind them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Surprised airplane travel is not higher. Lots of people crammed into a confined space, and it's low on the list. I just don't understand how that can be.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Surprised airplane travel is not higher. Lots of people crammed into a confined space, and it's low on the list. I just don't understand how that can be.

I've heard that airplanes turnover all the air in their cabins every 2-3 minutes. So it could be a perception versus reality thing. It seems on the surface to be a very dangerous thing, but its actually not.

 

[Techster]

The premiums on my health insurance policy (what I pay plus my employer) are about $27,000/year. We have a healthy/fit family. A lot of what he's referring to comes from the fact that a high majority of our total healthcare costs from our own life choices. Health insurance companies spread these costs across all their customers. So while I can't get fat or drunk or ruined lungs from your behavior...true...my pocketbook gets decimated. Add up those health insurance costs across 10-20 years and you're talking about several hundred thousand dollars coming out of my pocket to pay for others' life choices.

This doesn't negate any of your feelings on COVID-19. Its a separate issue with equal validity.

Easy. Don't buy health insurance. No one says you're required to have health insurance. No one says I'm required to buy health insurance.

You and I have health insurance because we don't want to pay the actual cost of medical care if we should ever have to get medical treatment...but health insurance is just a big premium to spread risk amongst everyone. That's why it's called insurance. You do understand the principle behind health insurance, don't you? Health insurance is not a right, it's a choice...though, in my belief, it's choice I think everyone should have. That's probably another discussion for another thread...

I live in a development in the middle of the city with an HOA. It's a very expensive HOA, but I knew full and well what I was getting into because I wanted access to a large selection of great walkable restaurants, bars, and easy access to the Beltline. My HOA is the cost of maintaining my develpment spread across all the owners. If none of us wants to pay the high HOA fee, don't move into the development, or sell the place and move the f@ck out.

Catching Covid from someone is not a choice in a lot of instances. No one is opting in for the virus...they catch it because vectors are walking around or in someone's space spreading it without them knowing. How in the heck is that the same as someone causing you to pay more for your health insurance? It's only the same if you want to obfuscate the impacts of the virus and everything bad in the world. If you're really worried about the Covid, you should be mad at people with Covid who are spreading it and sending people to the hospital and costing health insurers to pay out...and ultimately your premiums to rise even more. So if you were sincere about your health premiums, there's no obfuscating with the virus, because it's just another cost ALL of us will incur.

 

[Techster]

The premiums on my health insurance policy (what I pay plus my employer) are about $27,000/year. We have a healthy/fit family. A lot of what he's referring to comes from the fact that a high majority of our total healthcare costs from our own life choices. Health insurance companies spread these costs across all their customers. So while I can't get fat or drunk or ruined lungs from your behavior...true...my pocketbook gets decimated. Add up those health insurance costs across 10-20 years and you're talking about several hundred thousand dollars coming out of my pocket to pay for others' life choices.

This doesn't negate any of your feelings on COVID-19. Its a separate issue with equal validity.

BTW...if you think the cost of medical care is high because of people being lazy, fat, drunk, whatever...then you need to do research. The cost of medical care is high because Hospitals and insurers have become giant businesses. I have friends that work at Emory, and it's supposed be a non profit organizations, but their goal on the administrative level is how much profit they can turn per bed. Why do you think they partnered with Kaiser recently? Their biggest hangup in the partnership wasn't how to best handle patient care, but how big of the pie each side was going to get. Doctors at Emory, with the exception of the few world renowned specialists, don't make that much money. Where do you think all the money goes? You have CEO's of each hospital with compensations packages near or over seven figures. Pretty good compensation for non profit administrators.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

BTW...if you think the cost of medical care is high because of people being lazy, fat, drunk, whatever...then you need to do research. The cost of medical care is high because Hospitals and insurers have become giant businesses. I have friends that work at Emory, and it's supposed be a non profit organizations, but their goal on the administrative level is how much profit they can turn per bed. Why do you think they partnered with Kaiser recently? Their biggest hangup in the partnership wasn't how to best handle patient care, but how big of the pie each side was going to get. Doctors at Emory, with the exception of the few world renowned specialists, don't make that much money. Where do you think all the money goes? You have CEO's of each hospital with compensations packages near or over seven figures. Pretty good compensation for non profit administrators.

I can point you to articles that detail the cost of lifestyle choices in our healthcare system and why people have health insurance, but something tells me you wouldn't be interested in any of that. And by the way, yes a few people make way too much money at the executive level, but that's rounding error in the costs of healthcare. You can google that too.

 

[Techster]

@Techster I’m going to respond to the above in political section.

Edit: OK I guess I’m not. Looks like we nuked the political section.

Edit #2: Wow that was quick. Nuke then un-nuke.

Edit #3: Need some new glasses. Was clicking on the top item which is locked not the 2nd one.

Thanks, but I'm staying away from the political section. I have ZERO interest in the same 5 people throwing up conspiracy theories and and ignoring anything posted that doesn't agree with their political ideology.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Thanks, but I'm staying away from the political section. I have ZERO interest in the same 5 people throwing up conspiracy theories and and ignoring anything posted that doesn't agree with their political ideology.

Yea, and I am pretty sure you're the guy who has complained about conspiracy theories about 4 times, but every time we ask what conspiracy theories you're referring to, you never respond.

 

[Techster]

Thanks for all condescending responses. Really appreciate them.

I can point you to articles that detail the cost of lifestyle choices in our healthcare system and why people have health insurance, but something tells me you wouldn't be interested in any of that.

LOL...typical response from you. When you can't refute anything, you say someone else is personally attacking you. Seems like it's a pattern you have with many other fonts. Maybe you should check the common denominator.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

LOL...typical response from you. When you can't refute anything, you say someone else is personally attacking you. Seems like it's a pattern you have with many other fonts. Maybe you should check the common denominator.

Meh, I removed the condescension part. I still think it fits, but I'll remove it. I actually can debate literally everything you just said. Just google it. A large portion of our healthcare costs are from lifestyle choices. That is a true statement. Also, Emory is a multi Billion dollar business. So if an executive there makes say 5 million, I can see why that would strike you the wrong way. Lets say there's 20 people like that there who make 5 million (which isn't true). That still would only count for a couple percent of their revenue. Executive compensation is rounding error in healthcare costs. These are all facts that refute your position. These are all facts that exist whether I believe in them or not. It has nothing to do with me personally. Maybe I'm one of the few people who actually are willing to stand up and challenge people who post information they say is irrefutable yet can be. I can definitely see why that would be annoying or bothersome. Your first reaction, like those of a few others, shouldn't always be that if someone disagrees with you, its because they're stupid, haven't read up on a subject, and don't know what they're talking about. First of all its wrong. Second of all, its condescending to fall back to that position all the time.

EDIT: I've tried to smooth the edges of this post.

 

[wrmathis]

Surprised airplane travel is not higher. Lots of people crammed into a confined space, and it's low on the list. I just don't understand how that can be.

on flights they arent sitting next to people. there is a seat in between everyone one each row. my step daughter just flew out from virginia to washington state and thats how she sat on the plane. i got tickets for my wife to take her back to virginia at the end of the summer and thats how i had to pick the seats for them.

 

[Techster]

Meh, I removed the condescension part. I actually can refute literally everything you just said. Just google it. A large portion of our healthcare costs are from lifestyle choices. I'm actually surprised you don't know that. Also, you do realize Emory is a multi Billion dollar business right? So if an executive there makes say 5 million, I can see why that would strike you the wrong way. Lets say there's 20 people like that there who make 5 million (which isn't true). That still would only count for a couple percent of their revenue. Executive compensation is rounding error in healthcare costs. These are all facts that refute your position. These are all facts that exist whether I believe in them or not. It has nothing to do with me personally. Maybe I'm one of the few people who actually are willing to stand up and challenge people who post false information. I can definitely see why that would be annoying or bothersome.

You don't see the contradiction when you complain about high medical costs and a NON PROFIT administrator with a compensation package near or over seven figures? You can't have it both ways.

I don't give a crap if someone is making millions a year in compensation. I'm an investor in several businesses, so I'm 100% about generating maximum profit.

I do have a problem with people who complain about high medical costs (you), then say they're OK with the people who are providing medical care making maximum amount of money they can. Like I said, you can't have it both ways.