Coronavirus Thread

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FredJacket

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https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...worst-one-day-death-toll-yet-as-states-reopen

From the article:
"The WHO reported that 2,909 people in the U.S. died on Thursday, shattering the previous record of 2,471 deaths reported on April 23, CNBC reported."

At any rate, the toll now stands at 68,000. 2,000 a day would get us to 96,000 in two weeks.
If the discussion is whether we slowly & smartly "reopen" or not... then just extrapolating to a death toll of 96k in 2 weeks is not very helpful. The question is if we remain in shutdown mode how many fewer deaths will we have compared to whatever "reopened" mode we'd be in. Then we can talk about whether it is worth it or not.

Since nobody seems to be able to make those kinds of projections accurately... we're left with a silly back & forth where one side seems to say they obviously value life more than the other.

Silly. Take it as a given 99.999% of us value life.

By quoting you, @bobongo ...I don't mean to be picking on or directing my comment right at you.
 

bobongo

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If the discussion is whether we slowly & smartly "reopen" or not... then just extrapolating to a death toll of 96k in 2 weeks is not very helpful. The question is if we remain in shutdown mode how many fewer deaths will we have compared to whatever "reopened" mode we'd be in. Then we can talk about whether it is worth it or not.

Since nobody seems to be able to make those kinds of projections accurately... we're left with a silly back & forth where one side seems to say they obviously value life more than the other.

Silly. Take it as a given 99.999% of us value life.

By quoting you, @bobongo ...I don't mean to be picking on or directing my comment right at you.

Well, I was just doing the arithmetic, since the two-week number had been brought up.

Yes, it comes down to a tradeoff between lives lost and economic damage (and yes, the lives affected by that damage as well).

And, I think we can't overlook the question of what happens if we open up now or give it more time to get a measure more control over the spread of the virus and then open up. You have to factor in the possibility that if we open up too soon, we could just be shutting down again down the road. There are a lot of moving parts here and the equation is very complicated.

But on the other hand, if the shutdown is the kind of uncoordinated, piecemeal half-measures we've seen heretofore, it probably wouldn't make much sense to repeat that again. The response thus far has been a calamity both economically and health-wise, IMO. Coulda, woulda, shoulda. At this disastrous juncture maybe we should just give up, open up, and let the damned thing rip.

One thing is for certain, though. Whatever one's view, we are all Americans. None are more or less "real" than others. Like you said, 99.999% of us value life, and I think 99.999% of us want what's best, however we define it.
 

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If the discussion is whether we slowly & smartly "reopen" or not... then just extrapolating to a death toll of 96k in 2 weeks is not very helpful. The question is if we remain in shutdown mode how many fewer deaths will we have compared to whatever "reopened" mode we'd be in. Then we can talk about whether it is worth it or not.

Since nobody seems to be able to make those kinds of projections accurately... we're left with a silly back & forth where one side seems to say they obviously value life more than the other.

Silly. Take it as a given 99.999% of us value life.

By quoting you, @bobongo ...I don't mean to be picking on or directing my comment right at you.

You have to be careful around the BHBs. There’s a clan that operates with relative immunity, pardon the pun. I think a lot of the consternation really is overdone. We should be able to open back up, but carefully and deliberately and without huge congregations of people. Those known to be at risk should consider staying at home. Wait 2 weeks, and where are you. Back up, go forward, or stay put. If cases increase, it may actually be a who cares - if those at risk stay isolated, but a bunch of younger people (Less than say 50 years old) test positive who don’t end up in the hospital, that would be a case of having a second wave that wouldn’t cause you to close back down. And now even more people have immunity. We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. If anybody watched 60 minutes tonight, they did a good job highlighting the abject misery much of the country is living in right now because of the shutdown. And every single person they interviewed was not in the high risk category. How backwards we seem to be.
 

MWBATL

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I heard on the local ATL news that the total number of deaths in Georgia below the age of 65 with no underlying health conditions is.....20. Total. I was amazed. This virus just doesn’t kill young or middle aged healthy people. Period.
 

684Bee

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I heard on the local ATL news that the total number of deaths in Georgia below the age of 65 with no underlying health conditions is.....20. Total. I was amazed. This virus just doesn’t kill young or middle aged healthy people. Period.

It’s a travesty what we are doing. It was maybe understandable right at first, but now it’s just, well, .....
 

forensicbuzz

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You have to be careful around the BHBs. There’s a clan that operates with relative immunity, pardon the pun. I think a lot of the consternation really is overdone. We should be able to open back up, but carefully and deliberately and without huge congregations of people. Those known to be at risk should consider staying at home. Wait 2 weeks, and where are you. Back up, go forward, or stay put. If cases increase, it may actually be a who cares - if those at risk stay isolated, but a bunch of younger people (Less than say 50 years old) test positive who don’t end up in the hospital, that would be a case of having a second wave that wouldn’t cause you to close back down. And now even more people have immunity. We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. If anybody watched 60 minutes tonight, they did a good job highlighting the abject misery much of the country is living in right now because of the shutdown. And every single person they interviewed was not in the high risk category. How backwards we seem to be.
The experts have no idea if there's immunity. All evidence points to this not being a one-time infection, but like the cold, the potential for re-infection. If re-infected are actually communicable, that's bad news for everyone.
 

LibertyTurns

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The experts have no idea if there's immunity. All evidence points to this not being a one-time infection, but like the cold, the potential for re-infection. If re-infected are actually communicable, that's bad news for everyone.
I understand the concern with the unknown, but at some point we need to get off the dime here. We can’t know & account for every eventuality. When you’re a leader you have to make a decision and run with it. There’s a mountain of statistics regarding who this virus exists. Those people need to take extra precautions & the rest of everyone else needs to move along.
 

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The experts have no idea if there's immunity. All evidence points to this not being a one-time infection, but like the cold, the potential for re-infection. If re-infected are actually communicable, that's bad news for everyone.

And so if you’re in those at risk groups, you can isolate and stay home as long as you want. Nobody can force you to come out, come out without a mask, not wash your hands, etc.
 
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And so if you’re in those at risk groups, you can isolate and stay home as long as you want. Nobody can force you to come out, come out without a mask, not wash your hands, etc.

I agree with what you're saying in principle, but this becomes a problem with those not retired who have to work for a living.
 

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I agree with what you're saying in principle, but this becomes a problem with those not retired who have to work for a living.

If they’re not currently working, what’s the difference with continuing to do the same thing?
 

BuzzStone

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If they’re not currently working, what’s the difference with continuing to do the same thing?

Right now they have a job when this is over. If they stay out of work longer than the shutdown they may lose their job and most people can't afford to lose a job.
 

Deleted member 2897

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Right now they have a job when this is over. If they stay out of work longer than the shutdown they may lose their job and most people can't afford to lose a job.

Some people have a job if they’ve been furloughed. Guy across the street is helping restart their plant. All but 6 have come back, and those 6 don’t want to. He’s told them they have until May 11th to come back or he needs to find other people. So I know what you mean. That’s the decision those people will have to make for themselves. They can freely choose to do what they think is best for them.
 

slugboy

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The experts have no idea if there's immunity. All evidence points to this not being a one-time infection, but like the cold, the potential for re-infection. If re-infected are actually communicable, that's bad news for everyone.

I’m not sure if people get reinfected with the common cold, or if they catch a different strain. There are about 200 “cold” viruses, and maybe different strains of those.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold


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If they’re not currently working, what’s the difference with continuing to do the same thing?

They will eventually run out of whatever money they are using to stay afloat without going to work. This is one of those case where I think the government is set up to temporarily fill in the gaps.
 
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