Coronavirus Thread

[RamblinRed]

https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/we-must-count-the-deaths-from-shutdowns-as-well-as-from-coronavirus/

Interesting article about the deaths caused by a shutdown. To me this is the important quote:

"Job losses cause extreme suffering. Every 1 percent hike in the unemployment rate will likely produce a 3.3 percent increase in drug-overdose deaths and a 0.99 percent increase in suicides, according to data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the medical journal Lancet.

These are facts based on past experience, not models. If unemployment hits 32 percent, some 77,000 Americans are likely to die from suicide and drug overdoses as a result of layoffs."

and if we open up too quickly likely hundreds of thousands die from the disease (and tens of millions get sick) that do not otherwise. Still doesn't seem to be a hard decision and once again ignores that if you re-open without proper controls in place the economy very quickly ends up right back where it was. This is not an economy vs health issue. If you simply go full throttle on the economy you will have a significant portion of the population that will refuse to show up for work and the infection rate will quickly run out of control and within 6-8 weeks businesses are shut down again.

Keep in mind that for the last 130 years in the US the death rate decreases, not increases, during periods of economic recession and depression compared to periods of econmic expansion. This is due to the increase deaths from suicides (and drug overdoses) are more than offset by decreases in other areas - particularly both auto and work accidents. Suicides account for 2% of deaths in the US, it is one of the smallest causes of death in the US.

 

[RamblinRed]

I am one of the ones that agrees with you. It has really bothered me how this entire situation has been reported on and ultimately handled. Imagine if the news gave daily reports on how many people died in the last day from suicide, drug overdoses, drunk driving, physical abuse, etc. All of which are completely preventable, yet we have never brought our nation to a complete standstill to address these issues that has plagued our society for decades. Out of respect for the moderators, I'll stop there...

in the last 2 weeks more people have died from COVID19 in GA than they do in a month from car accidents (over 100 more already), shootings (more than 3X already), and drug overdoses (more than 3.5X already).

Your right, if people actually saw the statistics and realized the numbers, even with mitigation measures, they would be even more scared, not less.
We know the official numbers are undercounting deaths and cases. Right now, just the confirmed deaths are outstripping how many people die in the US from everything except Cancer and Heart Disease. And of course the difference between COVID19 and those 2 are that COVID19 is an infectious disease that can be transmitted and Cancer and Heart disease are not.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I received a report yesterday from our insurance provider brining attention to an unhealthy surge in mental health assistance requests. Is anyone seeing the same dynamic play out?

Yesterday one of the HR Supervisors reported her next door neighbor committed suicide “due to coronavirus”. Not sure if he felt responsible for other people being sick but that is sort of what I gathered from the short conversation.

 

[GTRX7]

Huh? I've never suggested (that I'm aware of) that we scrap the rules on new medicines and vaccines. I was talking about with regards to testing. There is definitely a balance on medicines, and we have always been way way behind other countries like in Europe. If Europe's FDA equivalent is comfortable with certain drugs after testing, I just find it hard to believe we would need another few years beyond that. Its not a black and white issue. Just because I may be advocating for a more aggressive approval and testing approach doesn't mean I'm advocating for a no holds barred wild wild west approach...that's not what I'm saying.

"I also continue to disagree that the CDC crapped the bed, particularly as more and more evidence comes out that their advice was ignored by policy makers early on." I'd love to hear what you mean here. Dr. Fauci stood up at the podium in front of the entire country 2 days ago and said that Trump had followed each and every one of their recommendations when they made them. From shutting down travel to China, to Europe, to the UK, to mitigation, and the extension of the mitigation. I can't find any area where the advice of the health experts was ignored. Perhaps you can offer some examples.

On the testing issue, I guess I just have no idea what your problem is? I assumed it was with the speed at which the CDC and FDA developed and distributed COVID tests and treatments? Am I wrong? Your previous comments have seemed to suggest that it is only "bureaucracy" and unnecessary red tape that kept those things from happening sooner. If that is your problem, I stand by my earlier comments. The FDA and CDC are not the ones that set policy and it takes time to properly vet tests and treatments. That cannot be rushed if it is to be done correctly. That some of the early tests did not work says more about the FDA and CDC cutting corners to get things out quicker than they normally would, as you are saying you want them to, and not about any inefficient "bureaucracy" on the part of those organizations. Same for treatments. If you want it done right, those things cannot be rushed by "removing red tape." The underlying science must be conducted. And I have no reason whatsoever to believe that those organizations have not been doing everything in there power to evaluate the scientific information out there to do their jobs. The information is just limited.

As for Fauci, that is covered ground. We just disagree and are not going to convince each other. Just listen to any of the other interviews he has given for the last two months when not standing directly next to someone who retweeted about firing him two days ago. There is plenty of evidence that medical advice was ignored, particularly in the critical February timeframe.

 

[takethepoints]

You bet who loses?

The DoJ. As it happens, I ran across this just this morning:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/long-history-coercive-health-responses-american-law

Here's the actual article, if you want all the gory details:

http://www.harvardnsj.org/wp-conten...l.-2_Klein-Wittes_Final-Published-Version.pdf

Sooooo … do states have the power to do things like shut down a drive-in church service during a pandemic? Yes. And they've had it - and used it - for a long time. I understand why the DoJ decided to bring suit; a lot of evangelical conservatives were upset by this and their political party is in power. But I don't think much of their chances of winning.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

This is sort of gross, so be forewarned, but take a look at a Wuhan wet market ---
https://attachment.outlook.live.net...3aFI60_UbGAJXA&isDownload=true&animation=true

 

[MWBATL]

Suicides account for 2% of deaths in the US, it is one of the smallest causes of death in the US.

Just to keep facts straight, it will likely exceed the number of deaths from coronavirus this year. So if we should ignore that risk, what does it say about coronavirus?

 

[JacketOff]

I'm probably in the minority here with this opinion, but this just makes me sad that an overwhelming majority feels this way. I think it's more a function of the way this thing has been covered than the actual reality (I know I'm going to get jumped on now). Many people believe that this is almost like a certain death sentence, and I can't really blame them for feeling that way, with how this has been reported. Nevermind that many, many people have had mild cases and many, many more people have recovered versus have died.

Peoples psyches have really been shocked to the core with this, and it's going to be tough to bring some of them out of it.

The entire reason for social distancing and shutdown measures is so we aren’t overflooding the hospitals. Numerous healthcare workers have already died because of the virus, and because things are shutdown, it’s not like new classes of them are being trained to come in and fill roles for those unfortunate souls. Not even mentioning the fact that many hospitals are cutting pay for healthcare workers in the middle of a pandemic, there’s less and less incentive to try to hold on to that job. The more people in hospitals due to Covid, the more people in the hospital with no relation to Covid will die. People are still having heart attacks, strokes, car accidents, seizures, work related accidents. Not only will equipment be shorter on supply, there’s a huge risk they also become infected.

These measure aren’t in place simply because Covid is dangerous, which it is. They’re in place because of all the other dominos it knocks over when a huge portion of the population gets it.

 

[MWBATL]

It sound sot me like the biggest disagreement going forward is the trade-off between the economy and public health. It is not an easy call or decision to make.

If the poll results that @RamblinRed reported are to be believed, then the government could relax restrictions considerably and trust that people would not rush into stupid and risky situations....but I suspect he is using those numbers to help justify continued governmental restrictions of people. I do worry considerably about the people out there who are worried to death about where next month's rent checks will come from, and continue to feel that far too many people who are recommending a continued shut-down are doing so because they are economically safe. Suicides, mental health, drug and alcohol related deaths are all things to consider and worry about. Fewer people dying on the highways is a side benefit...(let's shut the highways down next!)

 

[BuzzStone]

I don't understand why people feel so restricted now. Maybe its just because in South Carolina I have not had to change much at all. The only thing different for me is I can't sit in a restaurant. No other regulations have changed my life to any great extent.

 

[MWBATL]

I don't understand why people feel so restricted now. Maybe its just because in South Carolina I have not had to change much at all. The only thing different for me is I can't sit in a restaurant. No other regulations have changed my life to any great extent.

Can you get a haircut?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't understand why people feel so restricted now. Maybe its just because in South Carolina I have not had to change much at all. The only thing different for me is I can't sit in a restaurant. No other regulations have changed my life to any great extent.

In South Carolina, all non-essential businesses are shut down. Public parks and open spaces are shut down. State Parks are shut down. Public boat ramps and many private boat ramps are shut down. You can't go out to restaurants, movies, or get together with any friends.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I don't understand why people feel so restricted now. Maybe its just because in South Carolina I have not had to change much at all. The only thing different for me is I can't sit in a restaurant. No other regulations have changed my life to any great extent.

I think it depends where you are. My daughter and her boyfriend share a 550 square foot apartment in mindtown and almost never leave. That will drive you nuts. My wife and I have a much larger house and about 10 acres of land and other outdoor amenities around our house. We are mostly unfazed by the changes.

 

[MWBATL]

I think it depends where you are. My daughter and her boyfriend share a 550 square foot apartment in mindtown and almost never leave. That will drive you nuts. My wife and I have a much larger house and about 10 acres of land and other outdoor amenities around our house. We are mostly unfazed by the changes.

I think it also depends on whether you are by nature an introvert or an extrovert.

Introverts can be quite content with the restrictions, while extroverts can (literally) go nuts.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Can you get a haircut?

Funny you say that, my other daughter just received a kit for cutting hair today. She has time to practice on us and no one will see if it is a disaster.

 

[BuzzStone]

Can you get a haircut?

Actually yes my lady just changed to haircuts at her house instead of place of business.

 

[BuzzStone]

In South Carolina, all non-essential businesses are shut down. Public parks and open spaces are shut down. State Parks are shut down. Public boat ramps and many private boat ramps are shut down. You can't go out to restaurants, movies, or get together with any friends.

Yea the state parks is another one that does inconvenience me a little as well. But I can deal with parks and restaurants

 

[Milwaukee]

in the last 2 weeks more people have died from COVID19 in GA than they do in a month from car accidents (over 100 more already), shootings (more than 3X already), and drug overdoses (more than 3.5X already).

Your right, if people actually saw the statistics and realized the numbers, even with mitigation measures, they would be even more scared, not less.
We know the official numbers are undercounting deaths and cases. Right now, just the confirmed deaths are outstripping how many people die in the US from everything except Cancer and Heart Disease. And of course the difference between COVID19 and those 2 are that COVID19 is an infectious disease that can be transmitted and Cancer and Heart disease are not.

Dude, stop being a hypochondriac and look at all the numbers, not just the ones that fit your little statistical narratives that 4 swarmers think are cool and earn you a like. Expand your numbers to make a 50/50 comparison. Or don’t, keep being you. Some of you drama queens just need to stop talking at this point because you were duped.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Dude, stop being a hypochondriac and look at all the numbers, not just the ones that fit your little statistical narratives that 4 swarmers think are cool and earn you a like. Expand your numbers to make a 50/50 comparison. Or don’t, keep being you. Some of you drama queens just need to stop talking at this point because you were duped.

Sometimes you're a little coarse, but you do make a good point. For example, did you know a single fart one time killed over 10,000 people?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-a-fart-killed-10000-people

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

Can you get a haircut?

My wife refuses to shave my head. I don’t think she understands the alternative of me shaving my own head.