Conference Realignment

[WreckinGT]

I never said the ACC is contractually obligated to sell them.

Not contractually obligated but the alternative is years of lawsuits and an eventual court ruling. It would be interesting to see the ACC argue in court that they have a legal right to prevent FSU from leaving the ACC which is against their own bylaws.

 

[RonJohn]

Not contractually obligated but the alternative is years of lawsuits and an eventual court ruling. It would be interesting to see the ACC argue in court that they have a legal right to prevent FSU from leaving the ACC which is against their own bylaws.

Once again, those are two separate issues legally. The ACC would not be "prevent"ing FSU from leaving. They just wouldn't be agreeing to a commercial transaction for the purchase of media rights. You might see them as the same thing, but legally they are not the same thing.

 

[L41k18]

It would be interesting to see the ACC argue in court that they have a legal right to prevent FSU from leaving the ACC which is against their own bylaws.

As has been said repeatedly, FSU can leave the ACC today if they desire. Nowhere has or will the ACC "argue in court that they have a legal right to prevent FSU from leaving the conference."

 

[WreckinGT]

Once again, those are two separate issues legally. The ACC would not be "prevent"ing FSU from leaving. They just wouldn't be agreeing to a commercial transaction for the purchase of media rights. You might see them as the same thing, but legally they are not the same thing.

Once again, the two issues are intertwined. If the ACC were to refuse any attempt to repurchase the media rights it essentially prevents FSU from existing. That would be challenged legally. As much as you guys want the ACC to attempt do this, they aren't going to. They even mentioned FSU repurchasing their rights in their motion to dismiss.

If Florida State wishes to regain control of the rights before the end of the term, it could attempt to repurchase them,” the filing said. “But having to buy back a right which was assigned is not a penalty; it is simply a commercial possibility.

The ACC is not going to attempt to block FSU from leaving. This argument is dumb. That price will be negotiated and this thing will be settled.

 

[WreckinGT]

As has been said repeatedly, FSU can leave the ACC today if they desire. Nowhere has or will the ACC "argue in court that they have a legal right to prevent FSU from leaving the conference."

FSU will simply argue that without the opportunity to repurchase rights, they have no reasonable way to leave the conference. Which is the truth.

 

[orientalnc]

As has been said repeatedly, FSU can leave the ACC today if they desire. Nowhere has or will the ACC "argue in court that they have a legal right to prevent FSU from leaving the conference."

I think what several Swarm members, and the FSU lawsuit, are saying is the GOR effectively prevents FSU from leaving since they cannot exist outside the ACC without those rights. I don't agree that that makes the GOR punitive.

 

[Vespidae]

I think what several Swarm members, and the FSU lawsuit, are saying is the GOR effectively prevents FSU from leaving since they cannot exist outside the ACC without those rights. I don't agree that that makes the GOR punitive.

That’s the whole point of the GOR. And FSU signed it multiple times.

 

[billga99]

They can take the estimated distributions from either the B1G or SEC. Neither conference would offer membership at a financial loss, so that’s a floor for the FSU value.


Worst case, the ACC is the exclusive broadcaster for FSU home games. The ACC gets money no matter what. FSU is contractually required to support this. From a negotiating point of view, FSU needs to offer the ACC a better deal than what they already have—or, at least, the ACC has little incentive to accept less value than they get from FSU now.

FSU’s best card is “we are an unwilling partner”. It’s not a winning hand. Every other card is something that the conference can turn to their advantage

FSU will position their case as favorably as possible. So will the ACC. The ACC filings look more realistic so far.


The conference isn’t going to settle for a substantial financial loss.** They don’t have any reason to. FSU’s lawyers are going to cite only values that support their case; I would not accept any of those numbers at face value. I wouldn’t accept the ACC numbers either—I would use values paid to comparable schools

**The ACC could accept less. That would be stupid, and they’ve done stupid things.

I don't think the ACC would accept less since that would set the precedent if other schools wanted to leave. If the top 3 or 4 schools leave, the ACC media contract falls to a much lower level. Stanford, SMU and Cal don't make up for FSU, Clemson and pick one (UNC, Miami, etc.).

 

[stech81]

If y'all are worried about if FSU leaves the ACC will fall apart, then you are worried about the wrong thing.
The ACC will die because of the new 12 team playoff which the SEC and Big10 will have 10 of the 12 spots, IMO

 

[billga99]

The other interesting thing to me on this is what do the SEC and Big 10 TV contracts say? Do those networks have exclusive rights to televise SEC or Big 10 games. If yes, that is a real conflict in which TV contract rules Big 10 games? If it was the SEC, ESPN would control both and it might be easier to resolve.

 

[billga99]

If y'all are worried about if FSU leaves the ACC will fall apart, then you are worried about the wrong thing.
The ACC will die because of the new 12 team playoff which the SEC and Big10 will have 10 of the 12 spots, IMO

By today's rules, the SEC and Big 10 will not get 10 of the 12 spots. They would not get ACC, Big 12 or Group of 5. Those two conferences can't change the rules on their own. There is no incentive for the other conferences to grant them that. I also don't think it is a given that if the ACC or Big 12 have 2 teams are in the Top Ten that they will not get 2 bids. The committee to make those decisions will not be comprised of just SEC and Big 10 voting members. Will the ACC lose members over time, yes. Will the ACC dissolve depends heavily on what kind of financial terms they have in the future. I don't think the Big Ten and SEC want to take want to take 8 or 10 ACC schools and I don't think the Big 12 will have the ability to expand dramatically either.

The one big change possible is the SEC and Big 10 split off to form their own super conference. But GOR's will still be an issue that would require to be resolved. Potentially the networks would pay some large dollars to buy off ACC and Big 12 schools they want to make the super conference have the schools they desire.

 

[slugboy]

The other interesting thing to me on this is what do the SEC and Big 10 TV contracts say? Do those networks have exclusive rights to televise SEC or Big 10 games. If yes, that is a real conflict in which TV contract rules Big 10 games? If it was the SEC, ESPN would control both and it might be easier to resolve.

It would have no bearing.

The ACC owns the rights to a full slate of FSU home games. FSU can’t transfer them to another conference because they don’t own them.

FSU is counting on one of three things

1. That a judge and possibly a jury find something invalid in one of the two contracts associated with the grant of rights. This looks like a long shot, but it’s possible.
2. That the ACC will get so sick of FSU or find them too much hassle, such that the conference will take less than they’re entitled to
3. That the judge will decide that the monetary value of the grant of rights is less than FSU and the ACC believe and enforce a cheaper purchase price

That’s really it. Everything else is an irrelevant distraction.

I think the ACC is in the much stronger position. Defendants lose cases they should win, though.

 

[L41k18]

Unless something has changed the SEC has no GOR.
I don't know about the B1G.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The ACC and other conferences will absolutely vote with the SEC/BIG to change the format on who gets into the playoffs. Why? Because they always do and the guys in charge all want future jobs in big boy football. You think Jim Phillips will vote against his daddy, the BIG? You think a guy like JBatt will try and stop that vote and kill his career? The ACC should and needs to die and Swofford will have his name on the headstone. Let’s just hope Cabrera is doing more than lip service behind the scenes to get us in the BIG.

 

[orientalnc]

That the judge will decide that the monetary value of the grant of rights is less than FSU and the ACC believe and enforce a cheaper purchase price

I cannot believe, in our current contract law environment, any court, absent any other judgement, would rule that property I own has to be sold against my will to a buyer at a price determined by the court. That entire idea shatters everything I know about contracts.

 

[orientalnc]

The ACC and other conferences will absolutely vote with the SEC/BIG to change the format on who gets into the playoffs. Why? Because they always do and the guys in charge all want future jobs in big boy football. You think Jim Phillips will vote against his daddy, the BIG? You think a guy like JBatt will try and stop that vote and kill his career? The ACC should and needs to die and Swofford will have his name on the headstone. Let’s just hope Cabrera is doing more than lip service behind the scenes to get us in the BIG.

I think the PAC2 will eventually vote to change to the 5+7 format, but will get some time to rebuild the PAC before that happens, or they will get compensated as if they were two teams in the former PAC12. It also sounds like the G5 conferences are on board with 5+7. They haven't really lost anything. What Sankey wants is 0+12 where all 12 are at large. That's a more contentious issue.

 

[WreckinGT]

By today's rules, the SEC and Big 10 will not get 10 of the 12 spots. They would not get ACC, Big 12 or Group of 5. Those two conferences can't change the rules on their own. There is no incentive for the other conferences to grant them that. I also don't think it is a given that if the ACC or Big 12 have 2 teams are in the Top Ten that they will not get 2 bids. The committee to make those decisions will not be comprised of just SEC and Big 10 voting members. Will the ACC lose members over time, yes. Will the ACC dissolve depends heavily on what kind of financial terms they have in the future. I don't think the Big Ten and SEC want to take want to take 8 or 10 ACC schools and I don't think the Big 12 will have the ability to expand dramatically either.

The one big change possible is the SEC and Big 10 split off to form their own super conference. But GOR's will still be an issue that would require to be resolved. Potentially the networks would pay some large dollars to buy off ACC and Big 12 schools they want to make the super conference have the schools they desire.

For the next two years we have the 6+6 model. They are voting in a few days to change that to a 5+7 model but the Pac2 is throwing wrenches in that. After 2026, all bets are off. The SEC and Big 10 will likely push for a new model without automatic bids. If we are being honest with ourselves they will likely get it.

 

[RonJohn]

Once again, the two issues are intertwined. If the ACC were to refuse any attempt to repurchase the media rights it essentially prevents FSU from existing. That would be challenged legally. As much as you guys want the ACC to attempt do this, they aren't going to. They even mentioned FSU repurchasing their rights in their motion to dismiss.



The ACC is not going to attempt to block FSU from leaving. This argument is dumb. That price will be negotiated and this thing will be settled.

You skipped over the word "attempt". FSU can "attempt" to purchase their rights. The ACC filling does not say that the ACC would agree to sell them.

The entire purpose of the GOR is to make it financially difficult to leave the conference. FSU understood that and signed the contract twice. You can't back it if a contract just because you don't like it any more. It has been more than ten years since they first signed the contract, so they can't even reasonably argue that they didn't understand when they signed it. You can give up your rights by signing a contract. Many consumer contacts have arbitration clause that say you cannot sure the business in a court, but have to use binding arbitration. Courts uphold that very frequently, both for businesses and consumers.

 

[gtbb]

I'm starting to think the B1G has told FSU something approximating this:

We'd love to have you.
But first you have to do two things:
1) Leave the ACC & pay whatever exit fees apply
2) Be free of the GOR and own all your media rights.

That ain't happening for another 10 years or so. And there is no way to predict what the CFB/ TV market will look like then.

I think the lawsuit is just a way for FSU to come to hopefully a settlement they can afford. Once they do that, I think there's very little doubt that they go to the B1G. I don't think they would go through all the hassle of this lawsuit unless they knew they had a landing spot post-ACC either in the B1G or the SEC.

 

[L41k18]

I think the lawsuit is just a way for FSU to come to hopefully a settlement they can afford. Once they do that, I think there's very little doubt that they go to the B1G. I don't think they would go through all the hassle of this lawsuit unless they knew they had a landing spot post-ACC either in the B1G or the SEC.

But it will be a long time before that happens. A lot can change in 7-8-9-10 years.