Conference Realignment

[slugboy]

I think the odds of ESPN not exercising the option is extremely small.
ACC provides more content to ESPN than any other conference. If they were to not exercise the option they would have to find some way to fill all that content. Having the SEC and a partial piece of the B12 will not be enough.

22 hours a day of Pat McAfee—who’s in?

 

[TampaBuzz]

Florida is a sunshine state, so every state and local board meeting (other than personnel related) is public. I do not believe the FSU Board of Trustees does not know the contents of the GOR they signed, or authorized the President to sign, and that those meeting minutes, including the GOR are not in the public domain.

And if you believe that then I have some waterfront property to sell you.

 

[Techster]

Florida is a sunshine state, so every state and local board meeting (other than personnel related) is public. I do not believe the FSU Board of Trustees does not know the contents of the GOR they signed, or authorized the President to sign, and that those meeting minutes, including the GOR are not in the public domain.

I get Florida has sunshine laws. It's why the meeting of FSU's board was broadcasted on the internet. Whether or not FSU and its board knows the contents of the GOR or they're just playing legal gamesmanship is not germane to what you claimed. You said "The GOR is NOT under lock & key. It is publicly available." Media sources and FSU refute that, and the ACC's protocol to view the most current version of the GOR (and media contracts) also refutes that.

Again, if it's publicly available as you're claiming, please provide a copy of it. No media source has been able to get their hands on it. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to say I'm wrong. I'd also be curious to see what the GOR actually says.

EDIT:

Florida AG's lawsuit also refutes that the most recent GOR is "publicly available":

Florida AG seeks docs from ACC related to FSU

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

www.espn.com

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

"One of Florida's top universities is facing the possibility of forfeiting more than half a billion dollars, and the ACC is refusing to hand over the agreements at the center of this astronomical financial penalty," Moody said in a statement. "They are unlawfully keeping these documents locked away in North Carolina. However, North Carolina and Florida state laws are clear that these agreements are public records and must be handed over immediately. Today, I am taking action to ensure FSU and the public are able to review these agreements."

 

[bobongo]

I get Florida has sunshine laws. It's why the meeting of FSU's board was broadcasted on the internet. Whether or not FSU and its board knows the contents of the GOR or they're just playing legal gamesmanship is not germane to what you claimed. You said "The GOR is NOT under lock & key. It is publicly available." Media sources and FSU refute that, and the ACC's protocol to view the most current version of the GOR (and media contracts) also refutes that.

Again, if it's publicly available as you're claiming, please provide a copy of it. No media source has been able to get their hands on it. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to say I'm wrong. I'd also be curious to see what the GOR actually says.

EDIT:

Florida AG's lawsuit also refutes that the most recent GOR is "publicly available":

Florida AG seeks docs from ACC related to FSU

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

www.espn.com

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

"One of Florida's top universities is facing the possibility of forfeiting more than half a billion dollars, and the ACC is refusing to hand over the agreements at the center of this astronomical financial penalty," Moody said in a statement. "They are unlawfully keeping these documents locked away in North Carolina. However, North Carolina and Florida state laws are clear that these agreements are public records and must be handed over immediately. Today, I am taking action to ensure FSU and the public are able to review these agreements."

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not understanding this at all. FSU signed an agreement without looking at it? WTF???
If they were stupid enough to do that, it's on them. They signed it, period.

 

[Techster]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not understanding this at all. FSU signed an agreement without looking at it? WTF???
If they were stupid enough to do that, it's on them. They signed it, period.

No, it's more likely all the schools met at a location with their lawyers, had their lawyers review it...lawyers interpreted and gave their opinions, and the school's legal decision maker signed off on it. The final contract is being held at the ACC offices.

...and I agree. If you sign it, you own it. FSU knew what they were getting into...they're making meal of it because they have a big paycheck waiting if they can find a way out of the ACC GOR.

 

[bobongo]

No, it's more likely all the schools met at a location, had their lawyers review it...lawyers interpreted and gave their opinions, and the school's legal decision maker signed off on it. The final contract is being held at the ACC offices.

...and I agree. If you sign it, you own it. FSU knew what they were getting into...they're making meal of it because they have a big paycheck waiting if they can find a way out of the ACC GOR.

Same thing. Their lawyers looked at it and FSU signed off. Is FSU pretending they were taken advantage of, like a scammed old widow or something? This is getting hilarious.

 

[Techster]

Same thing. Their lawyers looked at it and FSU signed off. Is FSU pretending they were taken advantage of, like an old widow or something? This is getting hilarious.

FSU is basically saying "we didn't understand what we signed, and our lawyers we paid a lot of money to didn't understand what we signed...please get us out of a situation we created."

Definitely not a good look for FSU.

 

[bobongo]

FSU is basically saying "we didn't understand what we signed, and our lawyers we paid a lot of money to didn't understand what we signed...please get us out of a situation we created."

Definitely not a good look for FSU.

No, not a good look at all. They want off the hook, and the reason they're giving is because they're too stupid to understand the contract they signed.

 

[slugboy]

I get Florida has sunshine laws. It's why the meeting of FSU's board was broadcasted on the internet. Whether or not FSU and its board knows the contents of the GOR or they're just playing legal gamesmanship is not germane to what you claimed. You said "The GOR is NOT under lock & key. It is publicly available." Media sources and FSU refute that, and the ACC's protocol to view the most current version of the GOR (and media contracts) also refutes that.

Again, if it's publicly available as you're claiming, please provide a copy of it. No media source has been able to get their hands on it. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to say I'm wrong. I'd also be curious to see what the GOR actually says.

Florida AG's lawsuit also refutes that the most recent GOR is "publicly available":

Florida AG seeks docs from ACC related to FSU

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

www.espn.com

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

"One of Florida's top universities is facing the possibility of forfeiting more than half a billion dollars, and the ACC is refusing to hand over the agreements at the center of this astronomical financial penalty," Moody said in a statement. "They are unlawfully keeping these documents locked away in North Carolina. However, North Carolina and Florida state laws are clear that these agreements are public records and must be handed over immediately. Today, I am taking action to ensure FSU and the public are able to review these agreements."

We’ve shared links to the GOR docs on this forum. It’s publicly available. Members of this forum have read it online—that’s proof that the GOR documents are publicly available—we’re members of the public, it was available for us to read, and it’s available for others to read. You can click on that link and read the doc—how much proof do you need that the doc is publicly available when you can read the doc on the internet?

The ESPN contract is between the ACC and ESPN. That’s not the GOR. The ACC is not a government agency. That’s the document that the Florida AG is suing to get access to, because the GOR refers to it.

The Florida AG is saying that North Carolina and Florida laws are clear that those agreements are public records. However, that’s their argument—that’s not established legal fact. Until a judge agrees with him, it’s just the AG’s desired outcome.

Attorneys don’t cite the points that argue against their claim. The ACC’s attorneys are doing that. The ACC’s attorneys are clearly arguing that the Florida AG’s arguments are garbage.

 

[Techster]

We’ve shared links to the GOR docs on this forum. It’s publicly available. Members of this forum have read it online—that’s proof that the GOR documents are publicly available—we’re members of the public, it was available for us to read, and it’s available for others to read. You can click on that link and read the doc—how much proof do you need that the doc is publicly available when you can read the doc on the internet?

The ESPN contract is between the ACC and ESPN. That’s not the GOR. The ACC is not a government agency. That’s the document that the Florida AG is suing to get access to, because the GOR refers to it.

The Florida AG is saying that North Carolina and Florida laws are clear that those agreements are public records. However, that’s their argument—that’s not established legal fact. Until a judge agrees with him, it’s just the AG’s desired outcome.

Attorneys don’t cite the points that argue against their claim. The ACC’s attorneys are doing that. The ACC’s attorneys are clearly arguing that the Florida AG’s arguments are garbage.

Please provide a copy of the most current executed GOR with updated amendments. It's not available to the public.

There's copies of the 2013 and 2016 versions floating on the internet (I've linked to it), but not the most recent fully executed one with updated amendments.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Eh, a lot of people think the reason for GT leaving the SEC was irrational. Again, whether something is irrational or rational is a matter of opinion. Dodd's reasoning may be rational to GT fans (personally, I am not of that opinion given the headwinds for the 140 rule at that time), but to most observers at the time and today, they still question it. Even Bill Curry is on record as questioning it...in his famous Curry PC way.

In terms of the B1G, I don't think Peterson was being "irrational" in the hysterical sense, but the reason he gave for not leaving the ACC is rather curious given college sports itself is a business. Of course, it's GT, and GT is pretty familiar with bad business decisions.

Hopefully the B1G comes knocking on our door again.

Well, we could both get nit-picky, which I didn’t want to do, but technically, making the wrong decision doesn’t make it an irrational decision.

Irrational is what FSU appears to be doing, which is, actions with no rationale.

I get that you disagree with Tech’s two decisions. That’s irrelevant. The question is only whether there is a discernible thought process that can be explained. I hate like heck, Tech’s two decisions but I understand them.

Whether I disagree with FSU’s decision is also irrelevant. The question is only whether they thought through a plan which is easily explainable. As of now the answer is no.

So comparing Tech’s response to FSU’s response doesn’t hold water. Now, we may find out later there was a method to their madness but that’s another story for another time.

 

[WreckinGT]

We’ve shared links to the GOR docs on this forum. It’s publicly available. Members of this forum have read it online—that’s proof that the GOR documents are publicly available—we’re members of the public, it was available for us to read, and it’s available for others to read. You can click on that link and read the doc—how much proof do you need that the doc is publicly available when you can read the doc on the internet?

The ESPN contract is between the ACC and ESPN. That’s not the GOR. The ACC is not a government agency. That’s the document that the Florida AG is suing to get access to, because the GOR refers to it.

The Florida AG is saying that North Carolina and Florida laws are clear that those agreements are public records. However, that’s their argument—that’s not established legal fact. Until a judge agrees with him, it’s just the AG’s desired outcome.

Attorneys don’t cite the points that argue against their claim. The ACC’s attorneys are doing that. The ACC’s attorneys are clearly arguing that the Florida AG’s arguments are garbage.

FSU's own legal council said in the most recent BOT meeting that she doesn't have an executable copy of the GOR. What she has is what she found leaked on the internet like everyone else.

 

[roadkill]

Please provide a copy of the most current executed GOR with updated amendments. It's not available to the public.

There's copies of the 2013 and 2016 versions floating on the internet (I've linked to it), but not the most recent fully executed one with updated amendments.

The copies of the GOR I obtained from various internet sources are not fully executed, but I had assumed their text was final as that was the way they were represented. The 2013 GOR copy does have UNC's signature/date, so it seems unlikely that it was revised later. I think there may be some semantic confusion going on here - if the copies made publicly available have the correct and final text but don't have all signatures, then technically yes the executed contracts may not be publicly available. But the contents that everyone including legal analysts are referencing are apparently from the copies in circulation.

It's very puzzling that all the GOR signatories including FSU did not get copies of the executed document. I've never been refused a copy of any contract I was party to, and it was usually SOP to provide both parties with copies. Also seems that any competent attorney would make sure to get a copy of any contract his client signs. If FSU doesn't have a copy, what are they disputing?

The media rights contract on the other hand was not between the member schools but instead between the ACC and ESPN.
No doubt that contracts signed by public entities should be made available via FoI request, just as our coaching contracts are. However, I'm not sure that the ACC qualifies as a public entity and thus its contracts are not subject to FoI requests. Am I wrong?

Edit to add: Is there a more recent GOR amendment than the 2016 amendment which extended it to 2036?

 

[Techster]

Well, we could both get nit-picky, which I didn’t want to do, but technically, making the wrong decision doesn’t make it an irrational decision.

Irrational is what FSU appears to be doing, which is, actions with no rationale.

I get that you disagree with Tech’s two decisions. That’s irrelevant. The question is only whether there is a discernible thought process that can be explained. I hate like heck, Tech’s two decisions but I understand them.

Whether I disagree with FSU’s decision is also irrelevant. The question is only whether they thought through a plan which is easily explainable. As of now the answer is no.

So comparing Tech’s response to FSU’s response doesn’t hold water. Now, we may find out later there was a method to their madness but that’s another story for another time.

Huh? You're kind of contradicting yourself.

Because it doesn't make rational sense to you or I, FSU's decision is irrational...even if it's rational to them? By the same token, while others may view GT's decisions as irrational, it's actually rational because GT can discern and explain it? FSU is literally explaining the reasons for their actions (ACC payout is not competitive to their "peers" so they want out), and the way they're going about it is irrational to you and I, but that doesn't make it irrational. Desperate and juvenile? Most likely, but not irrational because they have an economic explanation for their actions.

The logic in your explanation is cloudy.

 

[orientalnc]

I get Florida has sunshine laws. It's why the meeting of FSU's board was broadcasted on the internet. Whether or not FSU and its board knows the contents of the GOR or they're just playing legal gamesmanship is not germane to what you claimed. You said "The GOR is NOT under lock & key. It is publicly available." Media sources and FSU refute that, and the ACC's protocol to view the most current version of the GOR (and media contracts) also refutes that.

Again, if it's publicly available as you're claiming, please provide a copy of it. No media source has been able to get their hands on it. If I'm wrong, I'll be more than happy to say I'm wrong. I'd also be curious to see what the GOR actually says.

EDIT:

Florida AG's lawsuit also refutes that the most recent GOR is "publicly available":

Florida AG seeks docs from ACC related to FSU

Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody has sent a letter to the ACC requesting multiple documents related to Florida State's lawsuit against the conference, including the grant of rights agreement.

www.espn.com

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

"One of Florida's top universities is facing the possibility of forfeiting more than half a billion dollars, and the ACC is refusing to hand over the agreements at the center of this astronomical financial penalty," Moody said in a statement. "They are unlawfully keeping these documents locked away in North Carolina. However, North Carolina and Florida state laws are clear that these agreements are public records and must be handed over immediately. Today, I am taking action to ensure FSU and the public are able to review these agreements."

Florida sunshine law:
The Sunshine law requires that meetings of public boards or commissions be "open to the public at all times." Thus, use of preassigned numbers, codes or secret ballots would violate the law.

It's a real sin against the people of Florida if the state cannot enforce its own laws with regard to public universities:

Frequently Asked Questions | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

I can understand the "fully executed" part of the statement, but the members of the board who attended the meeting where the GOR was approved or signed have to, by Florida law, retain a copy and make it available to the public. The FSU Board of Trustees cannot edict that law away.

Edit, after a phone call:

My FSU grad niece is livid that the AG cannot get a copy of a document a state employee(the FSU President?) signed that obligates the state for half a billion dollars. And FSU wants the world to believe FSU was raped by the ACC. Wow! Where was the FSU BoT when the Florida Sunshine Law was enacted?

 

[Techster]

The copies of the GOR I obtained from various internet sources are not fully executed, but I had assumed their text was final as that was the way they were represented. The 2013 GOR copy does have UNC's signature/date, so it seems unlikely that it was revised later. I think there may be some semantic confusion going on here - if the copies made publicly available have the correct and final text but don't have all signatures, then technically yes the executed contracts may not be publicly available. But the contents that everyone including legal analysts are referencing are apparently from the copies in circulation.

It's very puzzling that all the GOR signatories including FSU did not get copies of the executed document. I've never been refused a copy of any contract I was party to, and it was usually SOP to provide both parties with copies. Also seems that any competent attorney would make sure to get a copy of any contract his client signs. If FSU doesn't have a copy, what are they disputing?

The media rights contract on the other hand was not between the member schools but instead between the ACC and ESPN.
No doubt that contracts signed by public entities should be made available via FoI request, just as our coaching contracts are. However, I'm not sure that the ACC qualifies as a public entity and thus its contracts are not subject to FoI requests. Am I wrong?

The amendments and any language in the contract that may have been updated since 2016 to reflect the circumstances is what's key. Those details can totally change the meaning of certain parts of the contract and its enforceability. I get that the GOR is available in a certain form (2013 and 2016 version), but not its COMPLETE final form. No one knows how any updated language or amendments can change the tenor of FSU's argument or the ACC's defense...we don't know because it's not available. As media, FSU, and Florida's AG are saying, it's not available because it's under lock and key.

In terms of FOI, I have no clue. It's different for each jurisdiction and it's relevant application.

 

[orientalnc]

My neighbor just told me the UNC AA has a copy of the GOR and the only change made in 2016 was to extend the GOR to 2036. It is otherwise the same as the 2013 version.

That said, there is/will be an update to include Cal, Stanford and SMU. He said those changes may simply be the addition of the signature pages for those university presidents.

 

[WreckinGT]

Florida sunshine law:
The Sunshine law requires that meetings of public boards or commissions be "open to the public at all times." Thus, use of preassigned numbers, codes or secret ballots would violate the law.

It's a real sin against the people of Florida if the state cannot enforce its own laws with regard to public universities:

Frequently Asked Questions | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

I can understand the "fully executed" part of the statement, but the members of the board who attended the meeting where the GOR was approved or signed have to, by Florida law, retain a copy and make it available to the public. The FSU Board of Trustees cannot edict that law away.

Edit, after a phone call:

My FSU grad niece is livid that the AG cannot get a copy of a document a state employee(the FSU President?) signed that obligates the state for half a billion dollars. And FSU wants the world to believe FSU was raped by the ACC. Wow! Where was the FSU BoT when the Florida Sunshine Law was enacted?

It seems legally questionable that the GOR or media rights agreement cannot be retrieved with a FOIA request when so many public universities are involved. Just throwing an organization in the middle shouldn't be an easy way to circumvent the law. What's to stop any University from just creating a shell company for all matters they wish to hide?

 

[Techster]

Florida sunshine law:
The Sunshine law requires that meetings of public boards or commissions be "open to the public at all times." Thus, use of preassigned numbers, codes or secret ballots would violate the law.

It's a real sin against the people of Florida if the state cannot enforce its own laws with regard to public universities:

Frequently Asked Questions | My Florida Legal

www.myfloridalegal.com

I can understand the "fully executed" part of the statement, but the members of the board who attended the meeting where the GOR was approved or signed have to, by Florida law, retain a copy and make it available to the public. The FSU Board of Trustees cannot edict that law away.

Edit, after a phone call:

My FSU grad niece is livid that the AG cannot get a copy of a document a state employee(the FSU President?) signed that obligates the state for half a billion dollars. And FSU wants the world to believe FSU was raped by the ACC. Wow! Where was the FSU BoT when the Florida Sunshine Law was enacted?

This discussion is not about FL's sunshine laws or its definition. It's about getting a copy of the GOR as it exists currently...not the 2013 version, not the 2016 version, and not what we speculate what is and isn't in it.

FSU may have a copy of it, or may not have a copy of it. Only they know. However, the fact that no one can get their hands on it to review (unless they fly to league office) is why in I asked in the OP:

Has anyone questioned why the ACC is keeping the GOR under lock and key, and puts special stipulations on how and when members can view it? Seems rather curious they have the only copy and puts restrictions on accessing it. Members have to literally fly to the league office and view it. No copies of the final GOR can be made.

So far, everything I've read and found in my research, that statement remains true. Again, the most current version of the GOR is NOT "publicly available".

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

In a statement Thursday, Moody said she requested, among other items: An executed copy of the multimedia agreement between the ACC and ESPN; an executed copy of the 2014 amended multimedia agreement; an executed copy of the ACC grant of rights agreement; any other executed agreements with ESPN; and any other executed agreements between the ACC and the Walt Disney Company.

I dont know about the rest of you, but ANY TIME I sign an agreement with a third party company, it is standard practice that everyone gets a signed (AKA Executed Copy). I guarantee you they have one. Unless they lost it somehow during a keg party. They are making themselves sound like complete morons.