Conference Realignment

[orientalnc]

They certainty echo the sentiment that we are headed toward a super conference with two divisions (B1G and SEC) with the rest of schools jockeying to get in. “Handwriting on the wall” and all that with SEC and B1G already having established a joint committee.

These are just talking heads who have to generate content and clicks, as everyone knows, but you always wonder if there’s anyone out there who really knows what’s going to happen.

Interesting that guys all the way up in the Midwest are aware of Tech and think Tech would be a sweet plum for the B1G to add.

The FSU guy seems to generate a new video every day. Does he have a job?

 

[CEB]

Some on here keep saying GT would do worse in the B1G. I still haven't heard any good reasoning for that.

Can someone explain that to me? Maybe if Collins or Lewis was still our coach, but when we've had competent coaching, we've beaten very good teams consistently. There's a reason why GT is in top 20 for historical wins for teams currently playing P5 football.

GT will be GT regardless of conference. Good years mixed in with special years every 3-5 years. That is GT football...always has been.

We find ourselves top 10 in SOS again… seems we’ve been here quite often.
This year our ACC slate (aside from missing Clemson) includes the projected top half of the conference and we get UGA and ND to boot. Would the schedule in the Big Ten be that much tougher?
I think MAYBE there are fewer potential “gimmes” in the BIG, but there aren’t really a bunch of gimmes in the ACC. I’m not sure there’d be a big difference for us. We pretty consistently play tough out of conference games… we get “knocked” for the perception of a “weak ACC schedule” when we rarely play one…

 

[AugustaSwarm]

I don't have any personal experience to confirm what they say. I remember seeing a news story about a student from a lower middle class family, and her plan to go to Princeton sometime last summer. She was going to get a full-ride scholarship based solely on her mother's income. The story had sub-stories and quotes from other students in similar situations who had been at Princeton for a few years. As @LongforDodd said, those students had to work on campus for some number of hours per week. I might be mis-remembering, but I think there were some complaints about not having as much free time and lifestyle money as more wealthy students. However, they were going to school, making the grades, and on track to graduate without their family having to pay, and without going into debt.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Some on here keep saying GT would do worse in the B1G. I still haven't heard any good reasoning for that.

Can someone explain that to me? Maybe if Collins or Lewis was still our coach, but when we've had competent coaching, we've beaten very good teams consistently. There's a reason why GT is in top 20 for historical wins for teams currently playing P5 football.

GT will be GT regardless of conference. Good years mixed in with special years every 3-5 years. That is GT football...always has been.

I’ve wondered the same thing many times. Glad you brought it up.

All I can figure is that the narrative that everyone has mentioned at some point, in some way, that the ACC is perceived as a weak conference, consciously or unconsciously, still influences how people see us competing in the B1G. Since I’m one of those who doesn’t think the ACC is vastly inferior, I do not see Tech instantly plunges to the basement of the conference if we joined.

Just based on last year’s results, we clearly are better than a majority of the teams in the B1G. And I think most years we would have no problem handling Maryland, Rutgers, Michigan State, Indiana, Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska and Purdue. The fun part would be to see what we could do with all that extra recruiting money since we currently would be competitive even with a money disadvantage.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

What I meant by that was that you hopped from one discussion about higher education to a different topic about the same thing (jumping the scratch in a record; moving from one part of a song to another part of the same song). This is an old discussion about personal rights/liberties versus the societal rights/liberties. I will stay away from the politics of it and merely speak to the philosophical aspect.

I have found that unless the people/person being discriminated against is not part of a protected class, then there is nothing illegal about excluding them. However, that's a slippery slope. Philosophically, we have the right to do what we want (at least in this country) as long as it doesn't put someone in harms way (including oneself).

To your point above, my comment was never about who merited being admitted. My comment was that the schools have the resources to remove money from the educational equation and make it based purely on merit, but they don't. By right, that's their choice; but, it also is my right to criticize them. This discussion was never about choosing who gets in or left out.

( is my way to let you all know I've been drinking bourbon, at least a little, and my posting may be a little...edgy?)

who gets to decide what the protected classes are?

 

[Randy Carson]

It's because Youtubers pander to big fan bases to drive up their views, and they're just regurgitating popular social media speculation. NO ONE saw GT/Maryland/Rutgers getting an invite to the B1G until it happened. No one saw UCLA/USC happening until it happened...nor Oregon/Washington. Actually, I did speculate before it happened that B1G is going to try to follow up on USC/UCLA with more West Coast teams. At the time I speculated it would be among Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Arizon/ASU...and they eventually added Washington and Oregon...at discounted rate. Maryland and Rutgers also came aboard the B1G at discounted rates. IMO, B1G will round back to Stanford and one of the Arizona schools before it's all said and done. Book mark this and let's see where the B1G is in 2036. B1G's strategy isn't a secret if you've been paying attention: Build the conference upon schools in major markets where there are professional sports teams (namely NFL franchises). The B1G is playing a bigger game than any of the other conference, including the SEC, and it's why they are the most lucrative conference. Other conferences are struggling to stay on the board playing chess with the SEC, while the B1G is playing 3D chess. They're playing an entirely different game. If you look at this heat map, you'll have a very good clue the future of the B1G:

USA Population Density Map | MapBusinessOnline

This basic demographic map of the USA presents the latest Census update for population density per Sq KM by county. Visualize data with MapBusinessOnline.

www.mapbusinessonline.com

It's often said expansion is a 50+ year decision made by University Presidents, not fans. Fans look at butts in the seats and how well a team is doing the past few years, Presidents (especially B1G Presidents) look at demographic/economic headwinds, academics, athletics, and cultural fit. The Southeast and Texas/Arizona/NorCal are the only regions with major markets and schools untapped by the B1G. Outside of NorCal, the Southeast, Texas, and Arizona are the biggest areas of population and economic growth that the B1G does not have a school in. That will change over the next decade.

Which brings me to GT. Everything that made GT attractive to the B1G back in 2012/2013 is even stronger now. Atlanta is not only the South's biggest economic center, it's also the South's largest metro area (as well as the US's 6th largest metro area). Atlanta has the biggest concentration of B1G alumni in the South. Some on here want to say linear TV isn't as important as it was 10 years ago, but the link I posted some weeks back overwhelmingly says linear TV isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

What college football teams are the most popular to watch on TV?

College football ratings for the season show the top network, top schools and top conferences for all of 2023.

sportsnaut.com

If you want to see the importance of being in a P2 conference with compelling matchups, look at Vanderbilt's ratings. In what world does Vanderbilt average close to 2.5 million viewers and UNC and UCLA can't even break 2 million?! That's the effect of being in a P2 conference with the full weight of major networks pushing the narrative of the SEC and B1G. Now imagine GT, in Atlanta with a huge B1G alumni presence, playing a B1G schedule (that now includes USC/Oregon/Washington/UCLA). GT would easily average what Vanderbilt is (we're not far off at the moment).

All of the above is not even mentioning GT's academics. That matters to the B1G, although not as strongly as GT's potential to enhance the B1G's brand in fastest growing region in the US.

There's a lot of recency bias with respect to GT because of the Collins years, and the Flex Option years of Paul Johnson. Brands can be built with money and smart hires (see Washington, Oregon, UCF, FSU in early 90's). Markets and the economics/population explosion of Atlanta can not.

Okay. I have been all for joining the B1G for all the reasons you cited: big metro market, B1G alumni in Atlanta, academics, etc. I think if we do get an invite, we're not going to become the Vandy of the B1G.

OTOH, how long does it take to play this out? Other than Wake, Syracuse, Boston College (none of whom will find a dance partner) who still wants the ACC to survive and why? UNC/NC State will find homes as will UVA/VT. Duke basketball may go its own way.

With enough votes, this nightmare is over. What's the hold up?

 

[CEB]

Okay. I have been all for joining the B1G for all the reasons you cited: big metro market, B1G alumni in Atlanta, academics, etc. I think if we do get an invite, we're not going to become the Vandy of the B1G.

OTOH, how long does it take to play this out? Other than Wake, Syracuse, Boston College (none of whom will find a dance partner) who still wants the ACC to survive and why? UNC/NC State will find homes as will UVA/VT. Duke basketball may go its own way.

With enough votes, this nightmare is over. What's the hold up?

Right with you in the BIG.

WRT timing? “Enough votes” is 15/15… a pretty high bar.
Even if you subscribe to the dissolve the conference theory, you need 12/15 votes… still a high bar…. And in a few months you need 14/18.

There just aren’t enough landing spots to blow it up, and I am skeptical that there ever will be. Unless history repeats with PAC-style panic-induced lateral (to slightly downward) moves made by several schools. I don’t see it in the near term.

 

[RonJohn]

With enough votes, this nightmare is over. What's the hold up?

There has been a narrative that you only need 7 or 8 votes. My reading of the ACC Constitution and Bylaws is that it would take a 3/4 vote to disband the ACC. The GOR requires the vote of every single school to modify it. Starting August 2nd of this year, it would take 18 votes to change the GOR and it would take 14 votes to disband the ACC. It would currently take 12 votes to disband the ACC. Also, even if there are 14 votes to disband the ACC, there will probably be legal issues with ESPN for breaking the ESPN-ACC media contract.

It isn't as simple as people on Twitter and YouTube make it out to be.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

It isn't as simple as people on Twitter and YouTube make it out to be.

I'm shocked...

 

[yeti92]

Okay. I have been all for joining the B1G for all the reasons you cited: big metro market, B1G alumni in Atlanta, academics, etc. I think if we do get an invite, we're not going to become the Vandy of the B1G.

OTOH, how long does it take to play this out? Other than Wake, Syracuse, Boston College (none of whom will find a dance partner) who still wants the ACC to survive and why? UNC/NC State will find homes as will UVA/VT. Duke basketball may go its own way.

With enough votes, this nightmare is over. What's the hold up?

The state of North Carolina generates over a billion dollars every year from the ACC's existence and holding events in the state, they do not want that to go away. If UNC/NC State/Duke leave and go to another conference, that conference is not going to move their championships to NC.

 

[rfjeff9]

The FSU guy seems to generate a new video every day. Does he have a job?

I have been amused by him daily. I have commented on a few as well. It's usually clickbait.

This is the closest one he has gotten right in what I think will happen, but his guest is the one said it, not him. Even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

 

[billga99]

Always stunned by the size of Harvard’s endowment. They could give everyone free tuition AND buy the best team in football if they wanted.

I used to work with Harvard Management (manages Harvard endowment). They would hire heavy weight Wall St. analysts to run their portfolio and in many years returned 10% plus. Sitting on all of that money and not providing a lot back to students seems to be more than unfair.

 

[cpf2001]

Harvard is a hedge fund that has a school attached for PR.

UGA is a football team that has a school attached for PR.

Harvard might be worse?

 

[gte447f]

Harvard is a hedge fund that has a school attached for PR.

UGA is a football team that has a school attached for PR.

Harvard might be worse?

Impossible

 

[forensicbuzz]

who gets to decide what the protected classes are?

So far, the Federal Government has.

 

[CEB]

So far, the Federal Government has.

The only truly protected class IS the Federal Government.
Various other groups are offered inclusion depending upon what the Fed Govt desires (or anticipates it requires) protection from.
But we digress…

 

[iceeater1969]

I used to work with Harvard Management (manages Harvard endowment). They would hire heavy weight Wall St. analysts to run their portfolio and in many years returned 10% plus. Sitting on all of that money and not providing a lot back to students seems to be more than unfair.

U would have loved the United Arab Emirates Sovereign Wealth fund. Very small country- giant oil resources = everyone is a Prince that manages a share of the fund.
They shop for companies as they pretend to partner on joint venture. Oil just keeps bailing them out. We had to walk away because they are not good owners. Thank God for Horizontal drilling!

As to the purpose and sources of the endowment for a school - isn't it their because of the students and the graduates.

Seems like it could be used for current students in bad times? Scholarships, tuteroring, fun sports -- so they want to donate later? I have donated to it for 55 years and I have now donated to gtaa for 10. Thinking big = I think GT endowment could invest in gtaa and help gt join the B1G AND GET A GOOD RETURN FROM FUTURE GRADUATES.

 

[UgaBlows]

Perdue was in the 2022 BIG championship game with a solid coach, no reason we couldn’t have a good year like that from time to time as well. On the other hand I personally see the SEC as basically impossible to win at this point for a school like Tech

 

[orientalnc]

..

U would have loved the United Arab Emirates Sovereign Wealth fund. Very small country- giant oil resources = everyone is a Prince that manages a share of the fund.
They shop for companies as they pretend to partner on joint venture. Oil just keeps bailing them out. We had to walk away because they are not good owners. Thank God for Horizontal drilling!

As to the purpose and sources of the endowment for a school - isn't it their because of the students and the graduates.

Seems like it could be used for current students in bad times? Scholarships, tuteroring, fun sports -- so they want to donate later? I have donated to it for 55 years and I have now donated to gtaa for 10. Thinking big = I think GT endowment could invest in gtaa and help gt join the B1G AND GET A GOOD RETURN FROM FUTURE GRADUATES.

A young female graduate of our little high school just got a full ride at Duke. Paid for by their endowment. Her family could not have paid for community college. Hopefully that is what those endowments are for. It would be interesting to know the data behind those enormous balances.

 

[stinger78]

It's because Youtubers pander to big fan bases to drive up their views, and they're just regurgitating popular social media speculation. NO ONE saw GT/Maryland/Rutgers getting an invite to the B1G until it happened. No one saw UCLA/USC happening until it happened...nor Oregon/Washington. Actually, I did speculate before it happened that B1G is going to try to follow up on USC/UCLA with more West Coast teams. At the time I speculated it would be among Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Arizon/ASU...and they eventually added Washington and Oregon...at discounted rate. Maryland and Rutgers also came aboard the B1G at discounted rates. IMO, B1G will round back to Stanford and one of the Arizona schools before it's all said and done. Book mark this and let's see where the B1G is in 2036. B1G's strategy isn't a secret if you've been paying attention: Build the conference upon schools in major markets where there are professional sports teams (namely NFL franchises). The B1G is playing a bigger game than any of the other conference, including the SEC, and it's why they are the most lucrative conference. Other conferences are struggling to stay on the board playing chess with the SEC, while the B1G is playing 3D chess. They're playing an entirely different game. If you look at this heat map, you'll have a very good clue the future of the B1G:

USA Population Density Map | MapBusinessOnline

This basic demographic map of the USA presents the latest Census update for population density per Sq KM by county. Visualize data with MapBusinessOnline.

www.mapbusinessonline.com

It's often said expansion is a 50+ year decision made by University Presidents, not fans. Fans look at butts in the seats and how well a team is doing the past few years, Presidents (especially B1G Presidents) look at demographic/economic headwinds, academics, athletics, and cultural fit. The Southeast and Texas/Arizona/NorCal are the only regions with major markets and schools untapped by the B1G. Outside of NorCal, the Southeast, Texas, and Arizona are the biggest areas of population and economic growth that the B1G does not have a school in. That will change over the next decade.

Which brings me to GT. Everything that made GT attractive to the B1G back in 2012/2013 is even stronger now. Atlanta is not only the South's biggest economic center, it's also the South's largest metro area (as well as the US's 6th largest metro area). Atlanta has the biggest concentration of B1G alumni in the South. Some on here want to say linear TV isn't as important as it was 10 years ago, but the link I posted some weeks back overwhelmingly says linear TV isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

What college football teams are the most popular to watch on TV?

College football ratings for the season show the top network, top schools and top conferences for all of 2023.

sportsnaut.com

If you want to see the importance of being in a P2 conference with compelling matchups, look at Vanderbilt's ratings. In what world does Vanderbilt average close to 2.5 million viewers and UNC and UCLA can't even break 2 million?! That's the effect of being in a P2 conference with the full weight of major networks pushing the narrative of the SEC and B1G. Now imagine GT, in Atlanta with a huge B1G alumni presence, playing a B1G schedule (that now includes USC/Oregon/Washington/UCLA). GT would easily average what Vanderbilt is (we're not far off at the moment).

All of the above is not even mentioning GT's academics. That matters to the B1G, although not as strongly as GT's potential to enhance the B1G's brand in fastest growing region in the US.

There's a lot of recency bias with respect to GT because of the Collins years, and the Flex Option years of Paul Johnson. Brands can be built with money and smart hires (see Washington, Oregon, UCF, FSU in early 90's). Markets and the economics/population explosion of Atlanta can not.

You need to be talking to the powers that be in the B1G. They are the ones voting. Most of us here would be OK with leaving the ACC at this point.