Conference Realignment

[RonJohn]

I’m down with that. However, I doubt most would opt to be students. If they are paid employees, they would not be made to be students anymore.

They will be paid by the school based on the reporting of the settlement. That will be occurring. Players at an Ivy League school were declared as employees by the NLRB earlier this year. They don't even get athletic scholarships. If the P4 schools are going to make direct payments to the athletes, I don't see how they will not be classified as employees. I think they would have to be treated as payroll employees instead of 1099 contractors.

Just because you are an employee of the school or athletic department doesn't mean you are prohibited from being a student. And just being an employee doesn't mean that they can't still be required to be a student and maintain eligibility.

 

[bobongo]

I’m down with that. However, I doubt most would opt to be students. If they are paid employees, they would not be made to be students anymore.

Players could be paid with the money freed up by not having to provide scholarships, since they won't be students. Instant gratification. Fast money right out of high school (if they finish that), but no education. Injured at 19, out on the street. Oh, well...

 

[dressedcheeseside]

They will be paid by the school based on the reporting of the settlement. That will be occurring. Players at an Ivy League school were declared as employees by the NLRB earlier this year. They don't even get athletic scholarships. If the P4 schools are going to make direct payments to the athletes, I don't see how they will not be classified as employees. I think they would have to be treated as payroll employees instead of 1099 contractors.

Just because you are an employee of the school or athletic department doesn't mean you are prohibited from being a student. And just being an employee doesn't mean that they can't still be required to be a student and maintain eligibility.

That would be absurd.

 

[RonJohn]

That would be absurd.

Why?

Are GAs still employed if they withdraw from school? Are students who get on campus jobs for financial aid reasons still employed if they withdraw from school? I am not trying to be argumentative or petty. I do not understand why it would be absurd to have requirements for employees.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Why?

Are GAs still employed if they withdraw from school? Are students who get on campus jobs for financial aid reasons still employed if they withdraw from school? I am not trying to be argumentative or petty. I do not understand why it would be absurd to have requirements for employees.

Because they’d simply work for a school that didn’t require it. I don’t think everyone would require it and compliance wouldn’t and couldn’t be enforced.

 

[roadkill]

Because they’d simply work for a school that didn’t require it. I don’t think everyone would require it and compliance wouldn’t and couldn’t be enforced.

Disagree. Your assumption would require existing rules to be changed. And I don't think the enrolled student/progress toward degree requirements run afoul of antitrust.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Disagree. Your assumption would require existing rules to be changed. And I don't think the enrolled student/progress toward degree requirements run afoul of antitrust.

Ok, but why maintain the false pretense? It’s already false now with all the sham majors and illiterate “graduates.” If they become employees, there’s no need to keep calling them students. Now I can see schools like GT offering scholarships as perks to employment. There are some student athletes who still want to be students.

 

[Ramblnwrek]

I originally thought a second minor league NFL was going to pop up. I did not realize that College was just that. We have monetized our fan bases and those who 'have' or 'have more' will outperform those who don't. I don't think GT is on the competitive side of that equation, nor do I think we want to be when you look at what it takes to achieve 'competition at the championship level.'

For GT, this would mean an overhaul of Major sectors of the Institution: Complete Athlete-friendly degree tracks that are NOT named management. (Unpopular opinion) Admissions need to prefer those who are more likely to be ticket-buying/football-donating alumni, basically more good ol'boys and less international.

I do not know if GT wants or even should do something like that. It would change the very foundation of the institution. All for football? I do not forsee a future where GT stays an elite Engineering school and a top-tier football. Maybe if it were possible to go from public to private institution, but again 'foundation-altering changes.' The choice does not need to be made yet, but it IS coming and probably during J Batt and Cabrera's tenure.

 

[roadkill]

Ok, but why maintain the false pretense? It’s already false now with all the sham majors and illiterate “graduates.” If they become employees, there’s no need to keep calling them students. Now I can see schools like GT offering scholarships as perks to employment. There are some student athletes who still want to be students.

As you said, some schools have historically flaunted the "student" rules. However, I maintain that these rules at least attempt to provide a means of keeping the "college" in "college football" and leveling the playing field to a degree. I believe our point of disagreement stems from your view that athletes becoming employees means more schools will ignore the rules, while I don't think this will change the existing rule-bending that much. I could be wrong.

 

[gte447f]

More and more of the players don’t want to be students. That is why the whole thing is just pretense. On the football team it’s probably all of the two deep roster, on the basketball team it’s probably every scholarship athlete. It’s probably only the walk-ons and the third and fourth string that are interested in getting an education. So no, the athletes aren’t really students. The NCAA and the universities trying to maintain the pretense that the athletes will remain students is just an attempt to manipulate the gullible fanbase into continuing to support the whole charade to continue generating ridiculous sums of money.

 

[orientalnc]

More and more of the players don’t want to be students. That is why the whole thing is just pretense. On the football team it’s probably all of the two deep roster, on the basketball team it’s probably every scholarship athlete. It’s probably only the walk-ons and the third and fourth string that are interested in getting an education. So no, the athletes aren’t really students. The NCAA and the universities trying to maintain the pretense that the athletes will remain students is just an attempt to manipulate the gullible fanbase into continuing to support the whole charade to continue generating ridiculous sums of money.

GT is graduating significant numbers of athletes in every sport. And we're not the only ones. Someone seems to disagree with your premise.

 

[gte447f]

GT is graduating significant numbers of athletes in every sport. And we're not the only ones. Someone seems to disagree with your premise.

I believe I read on this board that Lance Terry will be the only player remaining from Josh Pastners last season. Complete roster turnover in 2 seasons. I don’t think the majority of that roster graduated.

 

[gte447f]

GT is graduating significant numbers of athletes in every sport. And we're not the only ones. Someone seems to disagree with your premise.

The only sports that matter for this conversation or football and men’s basketball basketball

 

[orientalnc]

I believe I read on this board that Lance Terry will be the only player remaining from Josh Pastners last season. Complete roster turnover in 2 seasons. I don’t think the majority of that roster graduated.

If my memory is correct, three players graduated from last season's basketball team.

 

[gte447f]

If my memory is correct, three players graduated from last season's basketball team.

Ok. I’ll take your word for it, and I’m sure a few may have graduated from Pastner’s last season. That leaves a majority of the players who have departed in 2 seasons who do not appear to be that interested in pursuing an education, and from the #1 rated value in college education in the country at that. I stand by statement that most players who are actually playing and not just sitting on the bench do not want to be students.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

GT is graduating significant numbers of athletes in every sport. And we're not the only ones. Someone seems to disagree with your premise.

I would not use GT as a barometer for this. We actively use quality of education as a selling point. We actively seek out student athletes who still believe in the student part.

 

[orientalnc]

Ok. I’ll take your word for it, and I’m sure a few may have graduated from Pastner’s last season. That leaves a majority of the players who have departed in 2 seasons who do not appear to be that interested in pursuing an education, and from the #1 rated value in college education in the country at that. I stand by statement that most players who are actually playing and not just sitting on the bench do not want to be students.

I do not know what will happen going forward, but some colleges, GT among them, have not given up on the student part of the student-athlete model. Over in Athens, uga used to do pretty well at graduating their players, but they are now LAST in GSR among the 130 FBS teams. But, even uga graduated 41% of their football players over six years.

 

[gte447f]

I do not know what will happen going forward, but some colleges, GT among them, have not given up on the student part of the student-athlete model. Over in Athens, uga used to do pretty well at graduating their players, but they are now LAST in GSR among the 130 FBS teams. But, even uga graduated 41% of their football players over six years.

41%?! That’s laughable. And it’s inline with exactly what I said that only 3rd and 4th stringers are interested in getting an education, because they are the “amateur “ athletes who are actually using a college scholarship to fund going to college.

I also don’t know where all this will end up in the future, but the writing on the wall looks bleak to me for programs in an arms (money) race to be good at football. I would rather see GT play division III than some of the mainstream alternatives I can foresee. Hopefully I’m wrong.

 

[roadkill]

Ok. I’ll take your word for it, and I’m sure a few may have graduated from Pastner’s last season. That leaves a majority of the players who have departed in 2 seasons who do not appear to be that interested in pursuing an education, and from the #1 rated value in college education in the country at that. I stand by statement that most players who are actually playing and not just sitting on the bench do not want to be students.

In basketball, the coaching change clearly affected some transfers. Regardless, you may want to check these links out. In the first, note the year-over-year improvement, which runs counter to your statement:

More and more of the players don’t want to be students.

Tech Sets Another New Record for NCAA Graduation Success Rate

Rate of Georgia Tech student-athletes that earn degrees reaches all-time high of 91%

ramblinwreck.com

Seventy-Eight Student-Athletes to Graduate from Georgia Tech

Commencement ceremonies set for Friday and Saturday at McCamish Pavilion

ramblinwreck.com

Nine Yellow Jackets Named to All-ACC Academic Football Team

Honorees maintain a 3.0 GPA or higher

ramblinwreck.com

George, Murphy Earns Spots on All-ACC Academic Team

Freshman guard, graduate senior performed well on and off the court in 2023-24

ramblinwreck.com

Kinda difficult to not be interested in school and make a 4.0 at GT. At least that's my recollection.

Edit to add: I saw recently that the football team set a new GPA record at 3.2, but I couldn't find the link.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

In basketball, the coaching change clearly affected some transfers. Regardless, you may want to check these links out. In the first, note the year-over-year improvement, which runs counter to your statement:

Tech Sets Another New Record for NCAA Graduation Success Rate

Rate of Georgia Tech student-athletes that earn degrees reaches all-time high of 91%

ramblinwreck.com

Seventy-Eight Student-Athletes to Graduate from Georgia Tech

Commencement ceremonies set for Friday and Saturday at McCamish Pavilion

ramblinwreck.com

Nine Yellow Jackets Named to All-ACC Academic Football Team

Honorees maintain a 3.0 GPA or higher

ramblinwreck.com

George, Murphy Earns Spots on All-ACC Academic Team

Freshman guard, graduate senior performed well on and off the court in 2023-24

ramblinwreck.com

Kinda difficult to not be interested in school and make a 4.0 at GT. At least that's my recollection.

Edit to add: I saw recently that the football team set a new GPA record at 3.2, but I couldn't find the link.

And those of you who actually went to Tech are free to laugh at me for saying this but it was the academic standards for Tech athletes that were partly the reason I was first attracted to following Tech sports. Players who were winners on and off the field as well as in the classroom made an impression on me as a young kid. It didn’t hurt that Tech also fielded good teams.

My relationship to Tech is long, and it certainly became frustrating as Tech struggled more and more in sports due to other schools getting more and more relaxed about their academic requirements for athletes. I would remind everyone that the series between Tech and Georgia used to be the closest series in the nation until Georgia started funneling money under the table and giving cars to players like Hershel Walker and accepting athletes who couldn’t even read.

I don’t know where all this will end up but some of the possibilities will certainly cause me to rethink why I’m a Tech fan.