Conference Realignment

[iceeater1969]

The SEC didn't make a billion per year in 2022, much less a billion more than the ACC. The per team payout in 2022 for the SEC was $49.9 million, a total of about $700 million. The ACC payout in 2022 was $39.4 million per team, a total of about $550 million. That isn't pre-ACCN, but the SEC media revenue is still not even at $1 billion. I am not sure what numbers you are trying to present.

Ron - sorry we don't seem to be communicating.
Its my fault for using my little phone and not adding much intro.
Then, I misquoted my old KNIGHT data base work from 2019 ish - by not saying the revenue is total. My old graph attached shows sec has grown their donations while acc has lagged its donations. 2007 to 2017 sec more than doubled their donations while acc marginally increased. I guess estimated the 2022 with 2019 info. Yes, the graph over states the difference due to the small private private schools in acc verses none n sec, but the difference is so striking it does not impact the conclusion that ESPN sees - acc needs to up their internal donations.

(I put this graph up when we were starting with TSTAN to rally folks on here to increase our donations and ticket sales.
In 2016 at USF game when i got tickets from Andy mac, GTAA secretary confirmed that the hill still would not let gtaa use the alumni association list of graduates.
But i still doubled down with my part and my tickets, then again when TFP arrived.
Then again when with arrival of Angel/Batt and Key.
Others are now doing more - but we are way behind and will need major internal funding increase. Silly me - i think we can do it.)

Can We have a great year with the toughest acc? Haynes King needs a Kim King like year.

I put this graph up when we were starting with TSTAN to rally folks on here to increase our donations and ticket sales.

 

[RonJohn]

And...how did Duke not make this list? Boston College did.

From the article:

Our analysis excluded schools with fewer than 4,000 students, the eight old Ivies and four Ivy-plus schools—Stanford, MIT, Duke and Chicago.

 

[LT 1967]

I have attached a couple of AP articles showing the Big 12 reaction to the new CFB playoff situation and the current relationship between the Power 4 Conferences. They are more positive than the current perception of the ACC. I suppose they can afford to be since no one is trying to leave the Big 12 so far.

 

[RonJohn]

.... 2007 to 2017 sec more than doubled their donations while acc marginally increased. I guess estimated the 2022 with 2019 info. Yes, the graph over states the difference due to the small private private schools in acc verses none n sec, but the difference is so striking it does not impact the conclusion that ESPN sees - acc needs to up their internal donations.

This is something that I have said many times in other threads comparing the mutts to GT. People want to believe that if GT had the SEC media revenue, then we would be even with the mutts. The SEC gave the mutts $10 million more in media revenue than GT got from the ACC. However, the mutts had $90 million more in total revenue than GT. Even if GT had the media revenue, it would still be $80 million below the mutts. Fans need to donate more. More fans need to buy tickets. More fans need to buy merchandise. Moving to the Big10 would not make us equal to the mutts in revenue. The fans need to take responsibility and do more.

 

[RonJohn]

I suppose they can afford to be since no one is trying to leave the Big 12 so far.

Their Clemson and FSU have already left. (well in another month will leave)

 

[iceeater1969]

This is something that I have said many times in other threads comparing the mutts to GT. People want to believe that if GT had the SEC media revenue, then we would be even with the mutts. The SEC gave the mutts $10 million more in media revenue than GT got from the ACC. However, the mutts had $90 million more in total revenue than GT. Even if GT had the media revenue, it would still be $80 million below the mutts. Fans need to donate more. More fans need to buy tickets. More fans need to buy merchandise. Moving to the Big10 would not make us equal to the mutts in revenue. The fans need to take responsibility and do more.

I did a study on donations by school and your are correct about UGA.

However , i am well aware of Texas AM as i lived in Texas for 30 plus years = they are crazy about football and go out of way to welcome all side walk fans. (my neighbor owned a pain store and was a die hard side walk fan - son was a walk on punter at AM - got a scholar ship, his sister went to AM, now their kids are going. Oh, my old neighbor has10 paint stores and is a booster at TAM) TAM has 3 times the alumni so you would expect them to have 3 times our donations - no the answer is closer to 9 times the donations.

Yes, there will some day be some sort of sanity placed on the money. Our school is in a great location for athletes, has a great reputations for education, and has potentially giant tv market for BIG 10 or BIG 12/ACC merger. We have lacked leadership - at acc and especially at GT. We just need to make it till then. Haynes King needs to look like KIM King!
Win the walk on fans in ATL!

 

[WreckinGT]

I have attached a couple of AP articles showing the Big 12 reaction to the new CFB playoff situation and the current relationship between the Power 4 Conferences. They are more positive than the current perception of the ACC. I suppose they can afford to be since no one is trying to leave the Big 12 so far.

Pretty clearly putting lipstick on a pig. My conference was just raided for its best members and we were forced to accept less money in the CFP but everything is great guys, we promise.

 

[roadkill]

Ron - sorry we don't seem to be communicating.
Its my fault for using my little phone and not adding much intro.
Then, I misquoted my old KNIGHT data base work from 2019 ish - by not saying the revenue is total. My old graph attached shows sec has grown their donations while acc has lagged its donations. 2007 to 2017 sec more than doubled their donations while acc marginally increased. I guess estimated the 2022 with 2019 info. Yes, the graph over states the difference due to the small private private schools in acc verses none n sec, but the difference is so striking it does not impact the conclusion that ESPN sees - acc needs to up their internal donations.

(I put this graph up when we were starting with TSTAN to rally folks on here to increase our donations and ticket sales.
In 2016 at USF game when i got tickets from Andy mac, GTAA secretary confirmed that the hill still would not let gtaa use the alumni association list of graduates.
But i still doubled down with my part and my tickets, then again when TFP arrived.
Then again when with arrival of Angel/Batt and Key.
Others are now doing more - but we are way behind and will need major internal funding increase. Silly me - i think we can do it.)

Can We have a great year with the toughest acc? Haynes King needs a Kim King like year.

I put this graph up when we were starting with TSTAN to rally folks on here to increase our donations and ticket sales.


View attachment 16100

There is no doubt that GT needs to up its donations - we are behind many of our peers. That said, I don't agree with your 2022 data guesstimates which greatly exaggerated the SEC revenue, or your point about ESPN seeing a conclusion. The data suggests that the ACC is growing contributions faster than the SEC.
Again, when viewed strictly from a GT perspective, our donations (and ticket sales) are not in the same league as our SEC neighbors. The ACC is behind as a conference but we don't need to portray it as worse than it is.

Here's the actual data comparison using the Knight database:

	2017	2017	2022	2022	Increase %	Increase %
	SEC	ACC	SEC	ACC	SEC	ACC
Donor Contributions	497	204	561	271	13	33
Total	1846	820	2169	1072	17	31

 

[Randy Carson]

From the article: Our analysis excluded schools with fewer than 4,000 students, the eight old Ivies and four Ivy-plus schools—Stanford, MIT, Duke and Chicago.

It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,640 - according to US News & World Report.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Let me know if this share works for some of you

https://theathletic.com/5465774/202...suits-realignment/?source=user_shared_article The ACC vs. Florida State and Clemson: The courtroom clash on which realignment’s future hangs

The best quote I’ve seen on the FSU and Clemson legal approach is “what you don’t ask for, you don’t get”. Some posts have said that FSU must have a good case, because they have a good firm representing them—the lawyer’s response here implies that it’s not strong, but what have you got to lose by trying?

The article also casts doubt on whether the B1G and SEC really have a “full share” appetite for FSU and Clemson.

One quote does lean in on everything getting blown up—maybe there’s room for FSU and Clemson in a super conference that doesn’t include Vandy, but that means the P4 get blown up.

Great article. The interesting tidbit to me was this:

"Any school considering paying steep league exit fees also must prepare for an impending era of paying its athletes brought on by potential settlements in cases like House v. NCAA.

“The biggest problem with doing all this now is that the next three to five years look very complicated and disruptive,” Crakes said."

With the uncertainty of the future cost of payments to athletes, I definitely can't see the SEC or B1G wanting to add full share members to their conferences until the financials are resolved.

 

[RonJohn]

It has a total undergraduate enrollment of 6,640 - according to US News & World Report.

That quote also says that they excluded the four Ivy-plus schools Stanford, MIT, Duke, and Chicago.

 

[Randy Carson]

That quote also says that they excluded the four Ivy-plus schools Stanford, MIT, Duke, and Chicago.

yeah...I just don't understand WHY. Because they are ALREADY Ivy-Lite?

 

[TechPhi97]

This is something that I have said many times in other threads comparing the mutts to GT. People want to believe that if GT had the SEC media revenue, then we would be even with the mutts. The SEC gave the mutts $10 million more in media revenue than GT got from the ACC. However, the mutts had $90 million more in total revenue than GT. Even if GT had the media revenue, it would still be $80 million below the mutts. Fans need to donate more. More fans need to buy tickets. More fans need to buy merchandise. Moving to the Big10 would not make us equal to the mutts in revenue. The fans need to take responsibility and do more.

I've said the same in other threads. Look at the source of income - donations are the largest difference between the schools.

 

[iceeater1969]

There is no doubt that GT needs to up its donations - we are behind many of our peers. That said, I don't agree with your 2022 data guesstimates which greatly exaggerated the SEC revenue, or your point about ESPN seeing a conclusion. The data suggests that the ACC is growing contributions faster than the SEC.
Again, when viewed strictly from a GT perspective, our donations (and ticket sales) are not in the same league as our SEC neighbors. The ACC is behind as a conference but we don't need to portray it as worse than it is.

Here's the actual data comparison using the Knight database:

	2017	2017	2022	2022	Increase %	Increase %
	SEC	ACC	SEC	ACC	SEC	ACC
Donor Contributions	497	204	561	271	13	33
Total	1846	820	2169	1072	17	31

Thanks for someone looking at the data base! not a fan of percentages increase unless we show the percent deficit. (its all about the $). based on above:
2017 to 2022 = 5 years Donations deficit was 293 but now only 290. A drop of only 3 in 5 years is bad. We are not closing the gap, EVEN THOUGH THE ACC INCREASED AT 6% PER YEAR. Totals deficit went the other way and increased by 71. That's real bad. They got a great start out of gate with ESPN and put up big donations so it will be a long time before we can catch them. At the lower tv money we will never catch them. Need a friut basket turnover after we Gt gets good!

While the sec only has one private no reporting school its still bad. This is especially bad when you subtract the top ACC football schools that want to exit. ESPN can see this.

Back in the day - i looked at Gt, VPI, NCST, NC, UVA - in billions. Gt in 2017 was at bottom except for the bump in 2015 after orange bowl.

in last few years i have looked at the data a few times - irrc we have increased our GTAA revenue with increased donations and significantly increases from "OTHER". Our on field record and demonstrated 100-0 incompetence has hurt our brand at the worst time. Now we have a very good new pres. and AD. They have reworked the staff and we are showing signs of life.
In any new deal ESPN and any other tv broadcaster will look closely at each schools internal revenue, debt, and NIL.
They will also look at how the teams play, do they have great location, room for improvement.

Would be a great year for acc to have many very exciting well played games.


Go jackets

 

[roadkill]

Thanks for someone looking at the data base! not a fan of percentages increase unless we show the percent deficit. (its all about the $). based on above:
2017 to 2022 = 5 years Donations deficit was 293 but now only 290. A drop of only 3 in 5 years is bad. We are not closing the gap, EVEN THOUGH THE ACC INCREASED AT 6% PER YEAR. Totals deficit went the other way and increased by 71. That's real bad. They got a great start out of gate with ESPN and put up big donations so it will be a long time before we can catch them. At the lower tv money we will never catch them. Need a friut basket turnover after we Gt gets good!

While the sec only has one private no reporting school its still bad. This is especially bad when you subtract the top ACC football schools that want to exit. ESPN can see this.

Back in the day - i looked at Gt, VPI, NCST, NC, UVA - in billions. Gt in 2017 was at bottom except for the bump in 2015 after orange bowl.
View attachment 16102
in last few years i have looked at the data a few times - irrc we have increased our GTAA revenue with increased donations and significantly increases from "OTHER". Our on field record and demonstrated 100-0 incompetence has hurt our brand at the worst time. Now we have a very good new pres. and AD. They have reworked the staff and we are showing signs of life.
In any new deal ESPN and any other tv broadcaster will look closely at each schools internal revenue, debt, and NIL.
They will also look at how the teams play, do they have great location, room for improvement.

Would be a great year for acc to have many very exciting well played games.


Go jackets

I think we are in general agreement here, especially about GT donations. I was responding to your line graphs which portray trends as well as absolute $. Especially this quote:

2007 to 2017 sec more than doubled their donations while acc marginally increased.

As an aside, I'd like to know what UVA is doing right about soliciting their donations. Their enrollment isn't much different than GT's, they haven't seen much success on the field, and they don't seem to have a particularly rabid fanbase. Yet their donations are far more than their ACC peers and nearly triple ours. ??

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I dunno that this will change our eventual conference home, but apparently, Tech is one of the "New Ivies".

Time to dust off my blazer and join a barbershop quartet.

And...how did Duke not make this list? Boston College did.

Four generations of my family have attended either Emory or Tech feeling that they were by far the two best schools in the state. There was no reason to leave the state to join an Ivy.

 

[Randy Carson]

Four generations of my family have attended either Emory or Tech feeling that they were by far the two best schools in the state. There was no reason to leave the state to join an Ivy.

And after all, we have Kudzu.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

That's hilarious that you think being in the BIG makes a school's coaches unpoachable. If only someone had let Purdue know before lil ole acc member Louisville took Brohm from them!

When did I say BIG coaches aren’t poachable? Tell me the last time GT poached a coach? You can’t because we have never poached a coach because we are a cash poor school. Louisville wants to win and Brohm is an alum so that lined up (And he did beat us in his first game so I’d say Louisville spent some wise money).

It’s ok that many of who can’t see past tomorrow and always set yourselves up to be shocked. The ACC is toast and will be an afterthought when playoff invites get handed out. We’ll get 1 team in until they expand into the 20’s. And Stoudamire will be poached the minute he makes the tourney. And Key will have a tough decision to make in the future if King keeps leading us to wins. That’s just the reality of being a fan of a poor school in a garbage conference. Don’t hate the messenger hate the guys who led us to this point.

 

[roadkill]

When did I say BIG coaches aren’t poachable? Tell me the last time GT poached a coach? You can’t because we have never poached a coach because we are a cash poor school. Louisville wants to win and Brohm is an alum so that lined up (And he did beat us in his first game so I’d say Louisville spent some wise money).

It’s ok that many of who can’t see past tomorrow and always set yourselves up to be shocked. The ACC is toast and will be an afterthought when playoff invites get handed out. We’ll get 1 team in until they expand into the 20’s. And Stoudamire will be poached the minute he makes the tourney. And Key will have a tough decision to make in the future if King keeps leading us to wins. That’s just the reality of being a fan of a poor school in a garbage conference. Don’t hate the messenger hate the guys who led us to this point.

2018, but I've tried to forget that.

 

[okiemon]

yeah...I just don't understand WHY. Because they are ALREADY Ivy-Lite?

No…because they are, and have been for years, considered Ivy-LIKE.