Conference Realignment

[Vespidae]

I love J Batt, he's a fundraising machine, and got to give him credit where credit is due, but he's not the man I want negotiating television contract. I would say the same thing if he was somehow the ACC commissioner. My criticism of Jim Phillips is more he's not the right man to lead a conference in the modern era.

While I agree with your sentiment, J Batt, or Jim Phillips, or whoever ... isn't going to negotiate a media deal. There are plenty of hired guns that will do that and they do. But your point is well-taken.

I'm not so sold that ND is going anywhere. The way it sets up now is that an undefeated and #1 ND has to play 4 games to get to a Natty. That's a pretty big hurdle. I still think that ND is waiting for FSU to bolt and then, ND joins the ACC as they would cruise to a conference title and first-round bye under the new system. I think ND combining with the ACC makes sense for both ... ND, unlike any other team, brings its own tv contract to the deal and the ACC brings access to the playoffs.

You never know what deals are waiting to be done behind the scenes. Long story short, ND HAS to get into a conference and the B1G is already crowded. Just my two cents.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Well, that’s like saying the engineer on the Titantic is working behind the scenes so keep the band playing. We just had 2 SEC and 2 BIG schools in the 4 team playoff, but us ACC fans arent concerned because Jim is working behind the scenes. Yeah, he’s working on his parachute back to the BIG. If GT had gone undefeated and was left out something tells me the sentiment around here would be a little different.

 

[bobongo]

Well, that’s like saying the engineer on the Titantic is working behind the scenes so keep the band playing. We just had 2 SEC and 2 BIG schools in the 4 team playoff, but us ACC fans arent concerned because Jim is working behind the scenes. Yeah, he’s working on his parachute back to the BIG. If GT had gone undefeated and was left out something tells me the sentiment around here would be a little different.

You know, at some point it's beginning to sound like blame is being heaped on the victim. I've never been quite clear on why the ACC is at fault because the conference was slighted in the playoff.
The process of selection shouldn't have come down to who's got the biggest jawbone, if that's what you're saying.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You know, at some point it's beginning to sound like blame is being heaped on the victim. I've never been quite clear on why the ACC is at fault because the conference was slighted in the playoff.
The process of selection shouldn't have come down to who's got the biggest jawbone, if that's what you're saying.

I can't like this enough.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You know, at some point it's beginning to sound like blame is being heaped on the victim. I've never been quite clear on why the ACC is at fault because the conference was slighted in the playoff.
The process of selection shouldn't have come down to who's got the biggest jawbone, if that's what you're saying.

Because the ”victimhood” didn’t happen in a vacuum. The ACC is reaping the lack of leadership for the past 20 years. This is what happens when you don’t actually lead an organization. The ACC is K-Mart and Blockbuster. Not because of the products in the conference but because of the decisions of the front office.

I have loved the ACC from birth as I was born while my father attended the University of Maryland (RIP Lefty) and I lived on Route 1 in College Park until he graduated. And to see how this conference has fallen to 2nd tier status while slime balls like Kramer and Sankey ran circles around my conference makes me want to cry. I’m done with rewarding incompetency when they have proven themselves to be 2 steps behind the other leagues. That our undefeated power 5 champion was left out so, not 1, but 2 teams with 1 loss (who are both affiliated with the SEC) got in was the last straw. The ACC is not a victim when we invited this upon ourselves.

Many here will convert to my way of thinking when they wake up one day and realize we have been left out the past 2 tournaments and will get 1 in under the new format. It’s just a matter of time until everyone gets it. But in the meantime, we’ll waste another 5 years at which point it won’t matter because every high end player will be in the SEC or BIG by then because athletes want to play for championships not Gator or Gasparilla Bowls.

 

[bobongo]

Because the ”victimhood” didn’t happen in a vacuum. The ACC is reaping the lack of leadership for the past 20 years. This is what happens when you don’t actually lead an organization. The ACC is K-Mart and Blockbuster. Not because of the products in the conference but because of the decisions of the front office.

I have loved the ACC from birth as I was born while my father attended the University of Maryland (RIP Lefty) and I lived on Route 1 in College Park until he graduated. And to see how this conference has fallen to 2nd tier status while slime balls like Kramer and Sankey ran circles around my conference makes me want to cry. I’m done with rewarding incompetency when they have proven themselves to be 2 steps behind the other leagues. That our undefeated power 5 champion was left out so, not 1, but 2 teams with 1 loss (who are both affiliated with the SEC) got in was the last straw. The ACC is not a victim when we invited this upon ourselves.

Many here will convert to my way of thinking when they wake up one day and realize we have been left out the past 2 tournaments and will get 1 in under the new format. It’s just a matter of time until everyone gets it. But in the meantime, we’ll waste another 5 years at which point it won’t matter because every high end player will be in the SEC or BIG by then because athletes want to play for championships not Gator or Gasparilla Bowls.

Well that's all very vague. I understand that the ACC front office has made some questionable decisions, but those decisions are neither here nor there pertaining to FSU's record on the field this season and why they were excluded from the playoffs. If unspoken reasons for FSU's exclusion relate somehow to decisions made by the conference 20 years ago, those reasons are illegitimate.

 

[CEB]

Well, that’s like saying the engineer on the Titantic is working behind the scenes so keep the band playing. We just had 2 SEC and 2 BIG schools in the 4 team playoff, but us ACC fans arent concerned because Jim is working behind the scenes. Yeah, he’s working on his parachute back to the BIG. If GT had gone undefeated and was left out something tells me the sentiment around here would be a little different.

Bold is such a garbage take…. Especially coming from fans of an ACC school.
Texas was a B12 team playing a B12 schedule and would not have been in consideration if they had not beaten the eventual SEC champ. Same record with any other top 10 win than Bama, and they are out.
Washington was a PAC team playing a PAC schedule. They weren’t one of the PAC teams most desired by the BIG and didn’t command a full share, yet they are now a proud BIG member in the eyes of the CFP?

The reason for the FSU snub was BS in the sense that the CFP changed what seemed to be their formula of “body of work” to an evaluation of “best right now.” Maybe we weren’t paying attention because the selection criteria all along was pretty ambiguous in hindsight.

That said, FSU was excluded by a perfect storm of events;
- Bama beating UGA was the biggest. If UGA wins, Bama and Tex are both out and the narrative is how cool it is to have 4 undefeated P5 champs in the final 4-team CFP.
- Texas scheduling Bama and getting the win over eventual SEC champ. If Tex had played any other top team than the eventual SEC champ, selection goes differently.
- Travis injured, and at EXACTLY the wrong time. A game later and we probably don’t see their QB 3 and are a lot more forgiving of the anemic offense. Lville laying an egg the week prior didn’t help…

We can’t know for certain, but any one of these NOT happening changes the CFP line up in FSU’s favor…. Future conference affiliation conspiracy is by far the most feeble explanation. We all agree that FSU is leaving the ACC right? By that feeble logic, FSU is a future SEC / BIG member too, right?

As for our outrage at the ACC only getting one spot in the 12 team playoff… take a look back at CFP rankings and see how many times we would’ve gotten a second spot. It’s got to be earned on the field and quite frankly, the ACC hasn’t gotten it done.

With the 5+7 model, most years the 5th champ is coming from outside of the top 12 rankings. Given that, you need to finish at least 11th to have a real shot. The ACC has put more than one team in the top 11 of the CFP just 3 times in a decade. Yeah, we can gripe about some ranking bias and the difference between 11 and 12 hasn’t mattered much, but it’s HUGE now. Additional food for thought… if UNC, Clem, FSU and Miami leave (as many suspect they will), the only ACC team remaining with a top 11 finish is… STANFORD.

GT and Pitt both managed a 12th place finish and would’ve been on the outside looking in at a G5 champ.

Bottom line, the ACC has to put a better product on the field. Yes, that looks to be getting even tougher, but we can only get so much mileage out of complaining like this.

 

[Lil G]

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there post season incentive to stay in the ACC now? Run through your seemingly weaker conference and now have a guaranteed shot at the 5+7?

Clemson can even go one loss against an undefeated FSU and they both might make it in? I understand being in the P2 makes more money but doesn’t this new model increase the odds for a title shot by a TON for ACC schools?

If I’m Clemson and I now have to play Ohio State, Michigan, PSU, Oregon, Washington, getting kicked out at some point- while some ACC team that stayed, let’s stay GEORGIA TECH, scrambles their way in, I’d be scratching my head and rear.

 

[CEB]

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there post season incentive to stay in the ACC now? Run through your seemingly weaker conference and now have a guaranteed shot at the 5+7?

Clemson can even go one loss against an undefeated FSU and they both might make it in? I understand being in the P2 makes more money but doesn’t this new model increase the odds for a title shot by a TON for ACC schools?

If I’m Clemson and I now have to play Ohio State, Michigan, PSU, Oregon, Washington, getting kicked out at some point- while some ACC team that stayed, let’s stay GEORGIA TECH, scrambles their way in, I’d be scratching my head and rear.

As long as we don’t go all spineless and cave to some guarantee of multiple auto qualifiers for the BIG &SEC (which has been proposed).
The polls are naturally going to give the BIG & SEC 3-4 teams, but the rest of college football sure as hell doesn’t need to guarantee that for years when they didn’t earn it.

 

[RonJohn]

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there post season incentive to stay in the ACC now? Run through your seemingly weaker conference and now have a guaranteed shot at the 5+7?

Clemson can even go one loss against an undefeated FSU and they both might make it in? I understand being in the P2 makes more money but doesn’t this new model increase the odds for a title shot by a TON for ACC schools?

If I’m Clemson and I now have to play Ohio State, Michigan, PSU, Oregon, Washington, getting kicked out at some point- while some ACC team that stayed, let’s stay GEORGIA TECH, scrambles their way in, I’d be scratching my head and rear.

I think things will change sooner rather than later. But looking just at this scenario: In five years or so, the Big10 and SEC will be making something like $50 million more in media revenue. Money isn't everything, but it can provide advantages. I remember that CPJ complained that Clemson's travel staff was as large as GT's entire football staff. GT's recruiting staff was extremely small, so football coaches had to watch film and analyze recruits on top of coaching football. Alabama was able to hire a former P5 coach to spend his time analyzing all of their future opponents and provide insight in game from the booth to the other coaches. Having coaches who are overworked on non-on-the-field activities doesn't guarantee a loss. Having a pool of football experts providing insight in game doesn't guarantee a win. However, there is a big advantage in having your on-the-field coaches concentrate on the current players and getting more data and insight into recruiting and game planning.

Making $50 million less in the ACC might provide an easier path to get into the CFP, but having an additional $50 million (if spent on football) might make it easier to actually win the CFP. I am not advocating either. If four Big10 teams get into the playoffs and only one ACC team, then a Big10 team would have a 4 in 20 (or so) chance as opposed to a 1 in 18 (or so) chance for an ACC team. Once you get into a 3 or 4 game single elimination tournament, it is difficult to win 3 or 4 in a row but it isn't difficult to lose 1.

I think FSU is looking for recognition more than they are looking for the additional money. They have discussed paying the ACC to leave and purchasing their media rights in order to make $50 million more per year. It wouldn't be $50 million more for several years, but even assuming it was it would take more than ten years to break even if you don't include interest. Including interest payments, the GOR would expire before they finished repaying all of the money. They look to me like someone who leases a Mercedes to show off how much money they have. Then they can't afford food because of their car lease, insurance, and rent payments. At least from their fans' perspectives, what they want badly is to not have the public perception of being a lowly ACC team.

 

[stinger78]

Somebody correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there post season incentive to stay in the ACC now? Run through your seemingly weaker conference and now have a guaranteed shot at the 5+7?

Clemson can even go one loss against an undefeated FSU and they both might make it in? I understand being in the P2 makes more money but doesn’t this new model increase the odds for a title shot by a TON for ACC schools?

If I’m Clemson and I now have to play Ohio State, Michigan, PSU, Oregon, Washington, getting kicked out at some point- while some ACC team that stayed, let’s stay GEORGIA TECH, scrambles their way in, I’d be scratching my head and rear.

It will all depend in how they are ranked, right? And that ranking is the CFP ranking. As we saw just this past season, that august group is not above fudging the rankings to achieve a desired outcome. Until I see sEcSPN out of the rankings discussion, I will believe the CFP exists to serve the greater interests of the SECheat.

 

[ThatGuy]

That's not hyperbole. That's an analogy.

 

[stinger78]

To a certain degree I understand your point. But, does it really matter whether the announcers fawn over uga or play down our weak defense? The game is on the field and we get respect when we earn it. While we played some good football at times last year, we have not been a team most people (UNC excepted) cared about very much since 2016. I understand the broadcast should not be a uga fanboy pep rally, but we have to be worth watching if we want respect.

The game played out in a manner in which GT deserved a lot of respect. I fully understand mentioning that GT had a bad rushing D last year, and that will draw commentary, but the amount and level of ridicule was over the top, IMPO. That is especially true as the game played out as a relatively close one.

 

[stinger78]

duplicate post

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Bold is such a garbage take…. Especially coming from fans of an ACC school.
Texas was a B12 team playing a B12 schedule and would not have been in consideration if they had not beaten the eventual SEC champ. Same record with any other top 10 win than Bama, and they are out.
Washington was a PAC team playing a PAC schedule. They weren’t one of the PAC teams most desired by the BIG and didn’t command a full share, yet they are now a proud BIG member in the eyes of the CFP?

The reason for the FSU snub was BS in the sense that the CFP changed what seemed to be their formula of “body of work” to an evaluation of “best right now.” Maybe we weren’t paying attention because the selection criteria all along was pretty ambiguous in hindsight.

That said, FSU was excluded by a perfect storm of events;
- Bama beating UGA was the biggest. If UGA wins, Bama and Tex are both out and the narrative is how cool it is to have 4 undefeated P5 champs in the final 4-team CFP.
- Texas scheduling Bama and getting the win over eventual SEC champ. If Tex had played any other top team than the eventual SEC champ, selection goes differently.
- Travis injured, and at EXACTLY the wrong time. A game later and we probably don’t see their QB 3 and are a lot more forgiving of the anemic offense. Lville laying an egg the week prior didn’t help…

We can’t know for certain, but any one of these NOT happening changes the CFP line up in FSU’s favor…. Future conference affiliation conspiracy is by far the most feeble explanation. We all agree that FSU is leaving the ACC right? By that feeble logic, FSU is a future SEC / BIG member too, right?

As for our outrage at the ACC only getting one spot in the 12 team playoff… take a look back at CFP rankings and see how many times we would’ve gotten a second spot. It’s got to be earned on the field and quite frankly, the ACC hasn’t gotten it done.

With the 5+7 model, most years the 5th champ is coming from outside of the top 12 rankings. Given that, you need to finish at least 11th to have a real shot. The ACC has put more than one team in the top 11 of the CFP just 3 times in a decade. Yeah, we can gripe about some ranking bias and the difference between 11 and 12 hasn’t mattered much, but it’s HUGE now. Additional food for thought… if UNC, Clem, FSU and Miami leave (as many suspect they will), the only ACC team remaining with a top 11 finish is… STANFORD.

GT and Pitt both managed a 12th place finish and would’ve been on the outside looking in at a G5 champ.

Bottom line, the ACC has to put a better product on the field. Yes, that looks to be getting even tougher, but we can only get so much mileage out of complaining like this.

I guess I just understand business better than some and am not as naive as others. Watching the 2 conferences who run the sport add 2 teams coming to their conference into the playoff wasn‘t a random act. These folks are at a caliber of business acumen that us ACC fans can’t even fathom. We couldn’t get in 1 team and they got 4. It’s called planning ahead.

And to believe FSU would have gotten in if not for a series of twilight zone events is just laughable. They do this every year to somebody. This year it was FSU because they knew they would get zero blowback by the ACC. And they were correct. All the ACC did was tweet out a statement.

And how will the ACC get better on the field when our league leaders have allowed us to be relegated? No high end players will sign to ACC teams when they just saw our undefeated champ get left out. The ACC is 2nd tier because we have 2nd tier players and it’s going to get worse. The only way to salvage anything is for the conference to die and start over because the brand is totally destroyed. The SEC has won the war. Just watch the polls next season and you’ll see the manipulatio (which has already started).

 

[TampaBuzz]

I guess I just understand business better than some and am not as naive as others. Watching the 2 conferences who run the sport add 2 teams coming to their conference into the playoff wasn‘t a random act. These folks are at a caliber of business acumen that us ACC fans can’t even fathom. We couldn’t get in 1 team and they got 4. It’s called planning ahead.

And to believe FSU would have gotten in if not for a series of twilight zone events is just laughable. They do this every year to somebody. This year it was FSU because they knew they would get zero blowback by the ACC. And they were correct. All the ACC did was tweet out a statement.

And how will the ACC get better on the field when our league leaders have allowed us to be relegated? No high end players will sign to ACC teams when they just saw our undefeated champ get left out. The ACC is 2nd tier because we have 2nd tier players and it’s going to get worse. The only way to salvage anything is for the conference to die and start over because the brand is totally destroyed. The SEC has won the war. Just watch the polls next season and you’ll see the manipulatio (which has already started).

And somehow they convinced the ACC guy that was chairman/president of the selection committee to repeat the pablum. He should have been screaming bloody murder to defend the ACC and FSU. I truly wonder how much he was paid for his silence and acquiesence. If he wasn't paid, why won't he say anything? No interviews, no summary of meetings, no nothing.

 

[Vespidae]

And how will the ACC get better on the field when our league leaders have allowed us to be relegated?

I’m watching LSU’s Brian Kelly talk about this … specifically asked about the ACC.

Paraphrasing, “They will get left behind. To play at the national championship level requires facilities, resources, fan commitment etc. The TV contracts require it (first I heard that) and the reality is, you have to step up or … you will be left out.”

This isn’t new. It’s been played out for a few years but now it’s beginning to stare folks in the face.

 

[billga99]

I guess I just understand business better than some and am not as naive as others. Watching the 2 conferences who run the sport add 2 teams coming to their conference into the playoff wasn‘t a random act. These folks are at a caliber of business acumen that us ACC fans can’t even fathom. We couldn’t get in 1 team and they got 4. It’s called planning ahead.

And to believe FSU would have gotten in if not for a series of twilight zone events is just laughable. They do this every year to somebody. This year it was FSU because they knew they would get zero blowback by the ACC. And they were correct. All the ACC did was tweet out a statement.

And how will the ACC get better on the field when our league leaders have allowed us to be relegated? No high end players will sign to ACC teams when they just saw our undefeated champ get left out. The ACC is 2nd tier because we have 2nd tier players and it’s going to get worse. The only way to salvage anything is for the conference to die and start over because the brand is totally destroyed. The SEC has won the war. Just watch the polls next season and you’ll see the manipulatio (which has already started).

I still think the ACC can recruit okay (not to the level of the SEC or some of the Big Ten). But what has changed is the transfer portal. We have already seen several of our best players transfer to other schools for my suspicion better NIL money and the idea provides them a better change to get to the NFL. If it wasn't for the major changes in the transfer portal, recruiting differences would allow for the best teaching coaches to improve their players. But in this climate, unlikely to hang onto your best players.

 

[CEB]

I guess I just understand business better than some and am not as naive as others. Watching the 2 conferences who run the sport add 2 teams coming to their conference into the playoff wasn‘t a random act. These folks are at a caliber of business acumen that us ACC fans can’t even fathom. We couldn’t get in 1 team and they got 4. It’s called planning ahead.

And to believe FSU would have gotten in if not for a series of twilight zone events is just laughable. They do this every year to somebody. This year it was FSU because they knew they would get zero blowback by the ACC. And they were correct. All the ACC did was tweet out a statement.

And how will the ACC get better on the field when our league leaders have allowed us to be relegated? No high end players will sign to ACC teams when they just saw our undefeated champ get left out. The ACC is 2nd tier because we have 2nd tier players and it’s going to get worse. The only way to salvage anything is for the conference to die and start over because the brand is totally destroyed. The SEC has won the war. Just watch the polls next season and you’ll see the manipulatio (which has already started).

Yeah, you’re right… apparently I really don’t understand business.

I don’t understand why the ACC wouldn’t allow GT to leave for the BIG.
I don’t understand why the ACC is pushing FSU, Clemson and UNC out now.
I don’t understand why the ACC doesn’t want full stadiums and more fan involvement.
I don’t understand why the ACC made us hire Geoff Collins… or why they made FSU hire Willie Taggert.
I don’t understand why the ACC doesn’t let its member institutions invest more in their programs.
And for the life of me, I don’t understand why the ACC doesn’t allow us better recruiting classes and mandate better on field results.

I wonder why the ACC didn't plan ahead before the war was over? It’s a shame they couldn’t save these programs from themselves.

 

[Richard7125]

I’m watching LSU’s Brian Kelly talk about this … specifically asked about the ACC.

Paraphrasing, “They will get left behind. To play at the national championship level requires facilities, resources, fan commitment etc. The TV contracts require it (first I heard that) and the reality is, you have to step up or … you will be left out.”

This isn’t new. It’s been played out for a few years but now it’s beginning to stare folks in the face.

I don't completely buy what Brian Kelly is saying for the main reason there are way more players than there are schools in the SEC/Big10. Even over time the Vandys, Northwesterns and Rutgers of the world aren't going to be better than FSU, Clemson, UNC, Miami, Louisville. The Bamas and Michigans might separate themselves, but they've kind of done that already. It will be interesting to see how Bama does now that Saban has retired.