Conference Realignment

[Techster]

I just don’t understand how we as a society have gotten to this point where facts are optional depending on whether they fit your narrative or not.

I believe there's an opt-in thread where some posters have been banned because of that...

 

[orientalnc]

I believe there's an opt-in thread where some posters have been banned because of that...

This carefully worded post has surely been vetted by legal counsel.

 

[cpf2001]

Listen to Greg Sankey, SEC Commissioner. They are NOT trying to “save” college football. They are trying to do what’s best for the SEC. And Tony Pettiti, Big Ten Commissioner, is doing likewise for the Big Ten.

Does CFB need 128 football teams. No. Neither did the NFL. It’s called “creative destruction” … industries devolve, reallocate capital, new alliances form.

Teams will still play football. Yes, some teams will become drop down in profile. I don’t think either P2 is going to lose any sleep over UAB, Southern Miss, Wake Forest or … any other program that isn’t accretive.

The ACCN is profitable today. The best thing for any program not in the P2 is pare down debt and right size for its fanbase and demand. It’s the ones who are upside down that have a reckoning coming.

Yes, the big two aren’t trying to save college football. Agreed.

So why would they toss the left-behind programs exhibition game beat-down paydays that have basically zero interest? You suggested they’d rather pay smaller programs for games than let smaller programs in the league. But why do either? Keep the money, and make more money off the better games. Pro teams don’t play minor league teams, they make more money playing each other. Georgia-Michigan State is a better OOC game that brings both leagues more money than Georgia vs a shrunken NCST and Michigan State vs Oregon State.

 

[Vespidae]

Yes, the big two aren’t trying to save college football. Agreed.

So why would they toss the left-behind programs exhibition game beat-down paydays that have basically zero interest? You suggested they’d rather pay smaller programs for games than let smaller programs in the league. But why do either? Keep the money, and make more money off the better games. Pro teams don’t play minor league teams, they make more money playing each other. Georgia-Michigan State is a better OOC game that brings both leagues more money than Georgia vs a shrunken NCST and Michigan State vs Oregon State.

Transitions take time.

 

[wrmathis]

You just had to throw that image out there. Gonna be stuck in my head for a long time.

I cant really think of anything better to be stuck in my head for a long time.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When truth is relative, so is everything else...

The famous Pontius Pilate question, “What is truth?” Is it an ontological question, an existential question, or is it just an unwillingness to stake a claim?

I’m not asking, just pontificating.

For the hell of it

To hell with Georgia!

 

[Northeast Stinger]

This carefully worded post has surely been vetted by legal counsel.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

And we are kind of back to a question we have batted around for years. What is the purpose of college athletics? If it’s just money, and I’m not saying it is, that is not sustainable, in my opinion. If it’s to undergird in some way the academic purpose of an institution, that fits more with how college athletics have been seen for centuries. But, that “undergirding” has a very wide avenue of interpretation, all of which is in flux right now. Conference realignment may be about additional factors other than just the obvious money questions.

 

[GTrob21]

My super secret source has let me in on the hidden agenda of the Cabal that is running football...(Hint it is not the SEC or B1G, it is not even the mouse It's the B12).

Here are the highlights of what is to come.

* Disney will not renew the ACCN, a profitable channel of over 100 million dollars a year to Disney, because they know that FSU will be happier in the SEC, which Disney will have to pay 30 million more to have the same televised rights as they have now. This makes complete sense because according to my well placed source, they (Disney/Espn) will do this because of the Bazillions they will make from FSU playing Auburn, Ole Miss and Tennessee. According to them, losing 130 million of the profit of a publicly traded company is peanuts compared to the billions they will make from FSU.

* Because of this truth, the ACC will lose anywhere between 10-12 members. They will all become scared and know that the gig is up. Swafford and the UNC cabal are laughing on top of their money stack that they have stolen over the years from the ACC, but will land in the B1G, so the heartless UNC Tarholes win again. The only ones left in the ACC will be GT, Wake, BC, SMU and Syracuse are on the fence. They need to show some life in their Basketball program according to the source to be accepted into the new Power conference that is known as the B12.

* All of these members will realize that its is in their best interest to play the powerhouses of Kansas St. Oklahoma State and TCU, and would jump at the chance to make less money doing so.

* Clemson will not be taken by either the SEC or B1G, as the SEC won't need them, and the B1G is scared of losing. Again this is all according to my source, so they become the crown jewel in the new B12.

* All of this will be facilitated by a massive infusion of private equity money to the BIG12, from a yet unnamed billionaire, who is going to guarantee payouts that are equal if not better than the B1G. This unnamed private equity is going to give hundreds of millions of dollars every year, and not want anything back in return. Its the B12 Santa, and Christmas is coming early.

* And all of this will prove that West Virginia was not left behind in a worse conference is the last realignment. NO, West Virginia is not worse than VaTech, Pitt, Louisville, Cuse, BC, or any of their old Big East Brethren. West Virginia is and has always been the reason the smartest person in the room.

 

[awbuzz]

You just had to throw that image out there. Gonna be stuck in my head for a long time.

... There are many many many things that are worse than that. Enjoy the image.

 

[billga99]

My super secret source has let me in on the hidden agenda of the Cabal that is running football...(Hint it is not the SEC or B1G, it is not even the mouse It's the B12).

Here are the highlights of what is to come.

* Disney will not renew the ACCN, a profitable channel of over 100 million dollars a year to Disney, because they know that FSU will be happier in the SEC, which Disney will have to pay 30 million more to have the same televised rights as they have now. This makes complete sense because according to my well placed source, they (Disney/Espn) will do this because of the Bazillions they will make from FSU playing Auburn, Ole Miss and Tennessee. According to them, losing 130 million of the profit of a publicly traded company is peanuts compared to the billions they will make from FSU.

* Because of this truth, the ACC will lose anywhere between 10-12 members. They will all become scared and know that the gig is up. Swafford and the UNC cabal are laughing on top of their money stack that they have stolen over the years from the ACC, but will land in the B1G, so the heartless UNC Tarholes win again. The only ones left in the ACC will be GT, Wake, BC, SMU and Syracuse are on the fence. They need to show some life in their Basketball program according to the source to be accepted into the new Power conference that is known as the B12.

* All of these members will realize that its is in their best interest to play the powerhouses of Kansas St. Oklahoma State and TCU, and would jump at the chance to make less money doing so.

* Clemson will not be taken by either the SEC or B1G, as the SEC won't need them, and the B1G is scared of losing. Again this is all according to my source, so they become the crown jewel in the new B12.

* All of this will be facilitated by a massive infusion of private equity money to the BIG12, from a yet unnamed billionaire, who is going to guarantee payouts that are equal if not better than the B1G. This unnamed private equity is going to give hundreds of millions of dollars every year, and not want anything back in return. Its the B12 Santa, and Christmas is coming early.

* And all of this will prove that West Virginia was not left behind in a worse conference is the last realignment. NO, West Virginia is not worse than VaTech, Pitt, Louisville, Cuse, BC, or any of their old Big East Brethren. West Virginia is and has always been the reason the smartest person in the room.

The GOR is not tied to just the ACCN. Also it is not a given that someone else will not pick up the ACCN. As part of that deal every school had to build out a broadcasting studio and they are still there. There are lots of streaming services out there who could pick this up. I don't buy the sky is falling and GT will be one of only five holding the bag.

 

[MWBATL]

The problem with arguing with FSU fans is that facts don't matter. If FSU fans believe that the ACCN is losing money, then they will believe that it is losing money. Even if you show them the actual books of the ACCN they will believe that the ACCN is losing money. FSU fans are like flat earthers, they believe what they want even if all of the available evidence points in the other direction.

Sounds just like politics these days...LOL

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Athletics have never had anything to do with academics. It’s all nostalgic BS that people have in their heads over something that never existed. Sure, students played sports but it had nothing to do with academics no different than asking if intramural sports have anything to do with academics today. It’s all just marketing window dressing so people would hand over their money to a school and feel like they “are part of something”.

I’m sure it started over a hundred years ago when some guys from Princeton decide to drive up to Yale or Columbia and play a game for fun. Then the losing team got pissed and asked for a do over. The next time both teams brought their girlfriends and a younger brothers and bragging rights became a thing. Then someone realized they could sell lemonade and candy during the
game. Then it grew to where the school itself realized they could turn a small profit since the teams had a lot of fans who were willing to spend money. Then the bragging rights caused someone to start bringing in “ringers”. Then a coach was needed because the internal strife between the students and the ringers started causing issues on the team. Then the coach realized the more ringers he had, the more he’d win. Then he realized if he simply had a whole roster of ringers who didn’t care about school and just wanted to practice he’d win even more. And here we are.

Make no mistake, I’m willing to shell over some money to watch my ringers wear my schools uniform because it’s a short break from the real world. But, in no way do I put any stock into the athletic/academic talk. It’s all a joke and doesn’t exist.

 

[CEB]

And we are kind of back to a question we have batted around for years. What is the purpose of college athletics? If it’s just money, and I’m not saying it is, that is not sustainable, in my opinion. If it’s to undergird in some way the academic purpose of an institution, that fits more with how college athletics have been seen for centuries. But, that “undergirding” has a very wide avenue of interpretation, all of which is in flux right now. Conference realignment may be about additional factors other than just the obvious money questions.

In a vacuum, you are correct… but colleges have separated AAs from the schools, introduced contractual agreements with strictly for profit media companies, marketing agreements with for profit products / manufacturers and now we’re talking about straight up PE investors.
That’s simplistic, but there is too much invested to make the reinvestment in things that don’t drive additional viewership and revenues (ie undergirding education).

 

[Vespidae]

Athletics have never had anything to do with academics. It’s all nostalgic BS that people have in their heads over something that never existed. Sure, students played sports but it had nothing to do with academics no different than asking if intramural sports have anything to do with academics today. It’s all just marketing window dressing so people would hand over their money to a school and feel like they “are part of something”.

I’m sure it started over a hundred years ago when some guys from Princeton decide to drive up to Yale or Columbia and play a game for fun. Then the losing team got pissed and asked for a do over. The next time both teams brought their girlfriends and a younger brothers and bragging rights became a thing. Then someone realized they could sell lemonade and candy during the
game. Then it grew to where the school itself realized they could turn a small profit since the teams had a lot of fans who were willing to spend money. Then the bragging rights caused someone to start bringing in “ringers”. Then a coach was needed because the internal strife between the students and the ringers started causing issues on the team. Then the coach realized the more ringers he had, the more he’d win. Then he realized if he simply had a whole roster of ringers who didn’t care about school and just wanted to practice he’d win even more. And here we are.

Make no mistake, I’m willing to shell over some money to watch my ringers wear my schools uniform because it’s a short break from the real world. But, in no way do I put any stock into the athletic/academic talk. It’s all a joke and doesn’t exist.

It started as part of student class “rushes”.

College Athletics - History Of Athletics In U.s. Colleges And Universities

 

[684Bee]

GT won 7 games in 2024. Batt and GT have announced an increase of 30% of the football budget, which may be the highest one year percentage increase for the football team in my lifetime. IMO, that does not say GT is happy with 8 wins a season. If anything, that says GT is positioning the flagship sports program to make a big move. Saying GT is happy with 8 wins a season is also antithetical to what Cabrera has stated for his vision of the GT football (hint: It's not to be mediocre to average).

If you look at it from a spend standpoint, GT is paying its OC Buster Faulkner factory level money ($1 million/season).

https://footballscoop.com/news/the-highest-paid-offensive-coordinators-in-college-football-2024-edition

IMO, GT is going with a top down approach with football. Invest heavily in its biggest program, help rebuild its success on the national level, and let the money and increased media attention trickle down to other programs. This approach is what SEC teams have done, and most of the factory programs across the country are doing. I think if the money does flow in from the increased investment in football, I expect the emphasis to increase football spending to continue, and the expectation that our football program wins more than just 8 games a season.

People’s expectations are out of whack. Pretty much everyone would say Auburn has been well ahead of us as a football program for a while. Guess how many wins they averaged over the last 10 years? The answer is 7. Their average over the last 30 years? It’s 8.

 

[UgaBlows]

People’s expectations are out of whack. Pretty much everyone would say Auburn has been well ahead of us as a football program for a while. Guess how many wins they averaged over the last 10 years? The answer is 7. Their average over the last 30 years? It’s 8.

And iirc we have beaten uga more than them the last 10 years or so

 

[Techster]

People’s expectations are out of whack. Pretty much everyone would say Auburn has been well ahead of us as a football program for a while. Guess how many wins they averaged over the last 10 years? The answer is 7. Their average over the last 30 years? It’s 8.

I think there's a difference in "being happy with 8 wins every year" and wanting to win more in certain years but being OK with 7-8 wins. If Brent Key was a consistent 8 win coach (see: Chan Gailey) for the next 5-6 years, I don't think Batt/Cabrera and GT fans would be happy. However, if Brent won 8 Year 2, 9 Year 3, 6 Year 4, 11 Year 5 (with playoff and ACC Championship), 8 Year 6 I think the administration and fans would be very happy. That would be a combination of Chan Gailey's 7 win floor, plus CPJ's upside. Average wise it's more than 8 wins but less than 9 wins (8.4 to be exact).

I get what you're saying about Auburn (and what Auburn symbolizes to this discussion), but Auburn is also in the toughest division in college football. There's a bit of nuance to Auburn's numbers. As someone who invests in various companies for a living, I can tell you if I'm increasing operating budget by 30%, I expect much better results. Comparatively, let's say Key's 7 wins is the baseline. 30% increase with expectations of similar win returns is 2.1 more wins. Obviously, college sports isn't that clean or that simple as to invest 30% and expect 30% increase in ROI. Nothing is, but you do raise expectations for that kind of percentage increase. For GT, it's much easier in the ACC than it would be in the SEC.

When I have time, I'll have to see where GT's 30% budget increase compares to our peers...teams in the ACC.

 

[slugboy]

Yes, the big two aren’t trying to save college football. Agreed.

So why would they toss the left-behind programs exhibition game beat-down paydays that have basically zero interest? You suggested they’d rather pay smaller programs for games than let smaller programs in the league. But why do either? Keep the money, and make more money off the better games. Pro teams don’t play minor league teams, they make more money playing each other. Georgia-Michigan State is a better OOC game that brings both leagues more money than Georgia vs a shrunken NCST and Michigan State vs Oregon State.

Short answer: if all games are conference games, how are you going to pitch a game against a team that’s 1-7? How would you feel as a fan of a team that goes 1-11?

I have friends who are fans of the other B1G schools—Wisconsin, Iowa, Michigan State, etc. Michigan and Ohio State are in the CFB and their fan bases are feeling fine. The teams winning 9 games are showing up less and less and turning off the games at halftime—at least, the ones I know.

While fan bases talk about being in the P2 “haves”, there’s another level of “haves” (Bama, Mich, UGA, OSU) and the “near haves” (TX, Penn State, Oregon, some others). The others mainly don’t see a realistic path to a championship, and are living off of bowl games. If they cannibalize themselves by playing only in-conference, they won’t even have THAT.

Even in the NFL, life is so much different for the Cowboys than for the Falcons (26th in team ratings).

Cowboy Up: Despite Blowouts, Dallas Remains Top NFL TV Draw

Dak Prescott & Co. in 2023 have outscored New York City's two football teams by a combined 119-27 margin.

www.sportico.com

Cowboy Up: Despite Blowouts, Dallas Remains Top NFL TV Draw

Dak Prescott & Co. in 2023 have outscored New York City's two football teams by a combined 119-27 margin.

www.sportico.com

 

[forensicbuzz]

I think there's a difference in "being happy with 8 wins every year" and wanting to win more in certain years but being OK with 7-8 wins. If Brent Key was a consistent 8 win coach (see: Chan Gailey) for the next 5-6 years, I don't think Batt/Cabrera and GT fans would be happy. However, if Brent won 8 Year 2, 9 Year 3, 6 Year 4, 11 Year 5 (with playoff and ACC Championship), 8 Year 6 I think the administration and fans would be very happy. That would be a combination of Chan Gailey's 7 win floor, plus CPJ's upside. Average wise it's more than 8 wins but less than 9 wins (8.4 to be exact).

I get what you're saying about Auburn (and what Auburn symbolizes to this discussion), but Auburn is also in the toughest division in college football. There's a bit of nuance to Auburn's numbers. As someone who invests in various companies for a living, I can tell you if I'm increasing operating budget by 30%, I expect much better results. Comparatively, let's say Key's 7 wins is the baseline. 30% increase with expectations of similar win returns is 2.1 more wins. Obviously, college sports isn't that clean or that simple as to invest 30% and expect 30% increase in ROI. Nothing is, but you do raise expectations for that kind of percentage increase. For GT, it's much easier in the ACC than it would be in the SEC.

When I have time, I'll have to see where GT's 30% budget increase compares to our peers...teams in the ACC.

LOL! I'd say over the past 20 years Auburn has been in one of the weakest divisions in college football. The SEC East has not been good.