Conference Realignment

[Vespidae]

The ACC playing hardball? That had me spitting out my coffee. The ACC rolls over in every single negotiation. This will be no different. It may take longer but no way the GOR lasts into the 2030’s. Hostage situations don’t generally last a long time.

The ACC can’t rollover. This is an existential threat. Three-fourths of ACC presidents voted to file the complaint. Not ADs. School presidents.

The GOR exists for one reason: To validate the league interest in creating the ACC Network. ESPN advised against it but said they would make investment if they could agree on an agreement. Hence, the GOR. Which FSU agreed to multiple times.

The big day is tomorrow. If FSU loses in court tomorrow, they will face the ACC in a NC court. Basically, it’s over for them despite the fact they will drag it out. The ACC, serving them a complaint following the Board vote, was masterful and completely upset their legal strategy.

 

[orientalnc]

The ACC playing hardball? That had me spitting out my coffee. The ACC rolls over in every single negotiation. This will be no different. It may take longer but no way the GOR lasts into the 2030’s. Hostage situations don’t generally last a long time.

I do not understand your hostage analogy. FSU and Clemson can leave anytime they want. They have to pay to exit the conference, but they are not being held hostage because they agreed to the exit fee.

 

[bobongo]

The ACC playing hardball? That had me spitting out my coffee. The ACC rolls over in every single negotiation. This will be no different. It may take longer but no way the GOR lasts into the 2030’s. Hostage situations don’t generally last a long time.

This is a different situation than any they've faced previously. The ACC has no choice but to fight this tooth and nail. If they settle, it will be the end of the conference. They have to make the GOR stick. This is an existential struggle for the ACC.

 

[57jacket]

Cabrera and Batt will get us the best deal possible. I have great confidence in them. And our location and academics will be attractive to any league.

 

[bobongo]

Cabrera and Batt will get us the best deal possible. I have great confidence in them. And our location and academics will be attractive to any league.

I have faith in Cabrera and Batt but they're swimming against the tide. They need a little help. They need the ACC to win this one and use whatever time they have left in the ACC to enhance Tech's position when the breakup comes. A lot depends on how the Jackets fare in the years ahead, providing the conference sticks together long enough. I guarantee you, a few winning seasons and some mid-tier bowl games will do wonders for our prospects. It would be nice if basketball could make some NCAA appearances, too. I know some don't think it matters, but I can't help thinking it does. It sure couldn't hurt. Win and build the fan base.

 

[yeti92]

I suspect that a primary reason that Clemson and FSU want to have their lawsuits decided by a friendly local venue is that the exit fee issue hinges on determining if it is a penalty, versus liquidated damages. The text says exit fee, but Clemson's suit quotes Jim Phillips saying it is a penalty. The fact that its calculation is tied to the ACC's operating budget, rather than something like the conference's media revenue, may give Clemson a reasonable argument that it is strictly a punitive measure and thus not enforceable.

Not sure that what Jim Phillips says matters, he wasn't even around when the GOR was signed.

 

[Randy Carson]

IMPO, if the SEC looks our way it would mainly be to keep the B1G out of ATL.

This is a very good point...an angle I hadn't considered before.

The SEC might think it better to have Tech on board than to give the Big a foothold.

 

[slugboy]

I suspect that a primary reason that Clemson and FSU want to have their lawsuits decided by a friendly local venue is that the exit fee issue hinges on determining if it is a penalty, versus liquidated damages. The text says exit fee, but Clemson's suit quotes Jim Phillips saying it is a penalty. The fact that its calculation is tied to the ACC's operating budget, rather than something like the conference's media revenue, may give Clemson a reasonable argument that it is strictly a punitive measure and thus not enforceable.

The fact that it’s tied to operating budget doesn’t mean it’s a penalty. The conference spends that operating budget for its members. If a cash cow leaves, the members still need the services. Relating the exit fees to operating expenses is a way for the conference to perform their required duties when a school removes support that they committed to.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The B1G actually wants in on the South more than they wanted the West Coast. It's why they went hard after GT/UNC/UVA in 2013, and it's why they've already had discussions with several schools for the next realignment shift. B1G overtures are why FSU is desperately pushing to leave the ACC. UNC has had a standing invitation for decades. Clemson pushing the issue with the ACC GOR is interesting because on the face of it, where would they go? SEC doesn't want to overlap states (which is why GT will not return to the SEC), and they already have South Carolina covered. Clemson checks the B1G fanbase box, but they are not a top academic institution, and they are not in a very populated metro area that gives them a high upside.

Who says the SEC doesn't want to overlap states? I've only heard that with B1G in regard to media markets.

 

[iceeater1969]

I have faith in Cabrera and Batt but they're swimming against the tide. They need a little help. They need the ACC to win this one and use whatever time they have left in the ACC to enhance Tech's position when the breakup comes. A lot depends on how the Jackets fare in the years ahead, providing the conference sticks together long enough. I guarantee you, a few winning seasons and some mid-tier bowl games will do wonders for our prospects. It would be nice if basketball could make some NCAA appearances, too. I know some don't think it matters, but I can't help thinking it does. It sure couldn't hurt. Win and build the fan base.

V said ESPN advisdd against it but went along with the GOR once it was signed.
Could it be that ESPN didnt like the Flat / Equal payout because it might allow some college presidents / alumni coast while others colleges promoted the brand.

Espn has 2 Brands to sell advertisers.

SEC costs them more but it sells itself. I imagine the advertisers are happy with the brand - winning! .

ACC costs less for a reason. Now it has the 2 best teams with wanting to leave, but the lesser teams are staining the ACC brand - turmoil in divorce court. That really sells brand

Espn can't be pleased the conference is unable to act as a unit and in confidence Kind proves they were right.

I heard they can give official notice to terminate ACCN in feb 2025.

Perhaps the conference - to get tv money - needs to be tougher on the perpetual bottom dwellers.

Not sure we make the cut. So much potential.
Go Jackets.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The ACC playing hardball? That had me spitting out my coffee. The ACC rolls over in every single negotiation. This will be no different. It may take longer but no way the GOR lasts into the 2030’s. Hostage situations don’t generally last a long time.

Hide and watch.

 

[RonJohn]

V said ESPN advisdd against it but went along with the GOR once it was signed.
Could it be that ESPN didnt like the Flat / Equal payout because it might allow some college presidents / alumni coast while others colleges promoted the brand.

Equal payouts has nothing to do with the GOR. The GOR simply says that the ACC owns the media rights of all members until June 30th, 2027. (and then updated to June 30th 2036 in the amendment) The equal distribution is in the ACC Bylaws. Specifically for media rights it is section 2.10.9 for the 2020-2021 bylaws.

 

[roadkill]

Not sure that what Jim Phillips says matters, he wasn't even around when the GOR was signed.

It shouldn't matter. But having the ACC Pres stating that it's a penalty doesn't help the ACC's case in arguing that it's not a penalty.

 

[roadkill]

The fact that it’s tied to operating budget doesn’t mean it’s a penalty. The conference spends that operating budget for its members. If a cash cow leaves, the members still need the services. Relating the exit fees to operating expenses is a way for the conference to perform their required duties when a school removes support that they committed to.

In my opinion, the Exit Fee needs to be related to incurred costs or loss of revenue resulting from a member leaving. Not sure how it follows that the ACC's operating expenses go up if Clemson leaves. There could be a loss of media revenue, although not necessarily during the term of the GOR. Do member institutions pay the ACC directly, or does it come out of the ACC's overall media revenue?

 

[RonJohn]

It shouldn't matter. But having the ACC Pres stating that it's a penalty doesn't help the ACC's case in arguing that it's not a penalty.

Once again, I am not a lawyer, but: Why does it matter if it is a penalty or not? Aren't court decisions on unconscionable consequences of a contract isolated to people who don't have the capability of understanding what they signed? Didn't all of the members of the ACC have teams of lawyers looking at the documents before they signed them? Didn't Clemson and FSU both publicly state the actual consequences of the documents and state that they were great for the conference and their schools when they signed them?

Do courts uphold things that I consider unconscionable? Yes they do. I saw a YouTube video discussion about someone who purchased an RV that had warranty issues. They tried to sue the retailer and the manufacturer. In the stack of documents that they signed while purchasing the RV was a promise not to sue the retailer, and an arbitration agreement with the manufacturer that requires arbitration be filed in the home county of the manufacturer. When he filed suit, the courts didn't say that it was unconscionable to take away his right to sue. The court said that he willingly signed contracts saying he wouldn't the retailer at all, and would use arbitration in any disagreement with the manufacturer. Too many people believe that you have rights that extend past contracts. You need to be very careful what you sign, because you might find out that your signature gave away rights that you thought you were unable to give away.

 

[iceeater1969]

Equal payouts has nothing to do with the GOR. The GOR simply says that the ACC owns the media rights of all members until June 30th, 2027. (and then updated to June 30th 2036 in the amendment) The equal distribution is in the ACC Bylaws. Specifically for media rights it is section 2.10.9 for the 2020-2021 bylaws.

At start
Espn - wanted to pay ACC for media rights.
Acc says yes& we all want equal pay from u.
Espn can you really all agree?
.ACC yes we can keep everyvbody together.
Acc - look we have poision pill deal called GOR.

ESPN ACC SAYS LETS DO IT.

Acc now says we are not together - GOR BEING TESTED.

ESPN - don't care about section numbers of GOR

Espn - you are hurting the brand. .

 

[slugboy]

In my opinion, the Exit Fee needs to be related to incurred costs or loss of revenue resulting from a member leaving. Not sure how it follows that the ACC's operating expenses go up if Clemson leaves. There could be a loss of media revenue, although not necessarily during the term of the GOR. Do member institutions pay the ACC directly, or does it come out of the ACC's overall media revenue?

Operating expenses don’t go up if Clemson leaves; they don’t disappear, either. The revenues from Clemson might disappear. Relating it to operating expenses is a way to say “we still have to pay our bills that you committed to; this gives us time to repair the damage that you caused”.

If, instead, it was based on revenue damages, the costs to FSU and Clemson could be more.

In any case, “we based the exit fees on what we need to operate the conference” is not clearly a penalty—it’s a fee to fund commitments.

 

[Techster]

Who says the SEC doesn't want to overlap states? I've only heard that with B1G in regard to media markets.

Well, right off the bat for the B1G that wouldn't be true because USC and UCLA are literally about 10 miles away from each other. They are two of the newest B1G expansion members.

As far as the SEC, that's actually a good question. I've read in several places by writers that's what they believe, but after some sleuthing I found this directly from SEC commissioner Sankey:

SEC commissioner on realignment: 'I hope everybody stays where they are' :: WRALSportsFan.com

SEC commissioner Greg Sankey and other college athletics leaders lobbied members of Congress for federal legislation and participated in a summit on the future of college athletics.

www.wralsportsfan.com

Asked about the biggest myths surrounding conference expansion and realignment, Sankey said he had several:

• "There's a policy about not adding schools within a state. ... It may seem that way," he said, referencing the belief that Clemson or Florida State, for example, would not be welcomed because the league already has South Carolina and Florida. "There are rules and structures within these Grant of Rights, within TV contracts, within the conference bylaws. ... We follow those. I know what those are and it created a level of difficulty."

Could be posturing, but who really knows anymore. Guess we'll see when the ACC GOR is expired or figured out.

 

[RonJohn]

At start
Espn - wanted to pay ACC for media rights.
Acc says yes& we all want equal pay from u.
Espn can you really all agree?
.ACC yes we can keep everyvbody together.
Acc - look we have poision pill deal called GOR.

ESPN ACC SAYS LETS DO IT.

Acc now says we are not together - GOR BEING TESTED.

ESPN - don't care about section numbers of GOR

Espn - you are hurting the brand. .

I haven't seen anything that the ACC and ESPN discussed the conference media payouts. That is all in the ACC Bylaws. As far as I know nobody has seen the ACC-ESPN contract, but i seriously doubt it details how the ACC is supposed to pay each member.

I don't disagree that ESPN probably isn't happy with how the ACC looks now. I just don't see anywhere that the ACC and ESPN have ever agreed to or even discussed even distributions of conference revenues.

 

[stinger 1957]

We'll know the fate of ACC by the beginning of upcoming FB season, will not know where every school ends up that will take longer. That is my call, we'll see.