Conference Realignment

[rfjeff9]

I accepted years ago that GT does not care about me either as an alum or a fan. You gotta accept it and decide how you want to spend your money. I have a kid at GT now. He has figured out in year 1 that GT doesn’t care about him as a student either. It’s a business. He says GT students of today are basically self or group taught because either the professor rants about things in class and tests on items not on the syllabus or in the book or they can’t understand the professor at all due to accents. I was fairly not happy when he told me but he said he and the other students figure it out somehow. Also, the incredible grade inflation keeps everyone who at least shows up the grades to keep Hope or Zell.

That's how it was headed when I was there early 90s. Outside of a few good profs, we were self taught. Diff Eq professor didn't speak any English. Fortunately, the TA did.

 

[Techster]

In regards to the GOR, you'd be a fool to think that lawyers for ACC schools aren't looking it over for loopholes. Once they've found it, and have built a strong enough case, that's when you'll see schools start to accept invitations to either the B1G or $EC. I don't remember exactly where it is, but I recall reading an article recently stating that one of the reasons that the ACC hasn't moved much is due to no school wanting to be the first to run to the courthouse. I say, if you've got good enough lawyers and a good enough offer, somebody's got to be the first.

Edit: Found the article, FYI requires a ESPN+ subscription to read.

https://www.espn.com/college-footba...latest-college-football-realignment-questions

"Ultimately, the ACC's binding grant of rights running congruent to the television deal that expires in 2036 is seemingly going to take ugly and aggressive legal action for schools to escape from. No one appears likely to be the first to run to the courthouse."

I think it will take a group of schools. Say B1G tell UNC/UVA/GT/Miami they need to resolve their GOR issues, and SEC tells Clemson/VT/FSU/NC State they also need to resolve their GOR issues, there the possibility that they form an alliance of convenience to legally tackle the issues.

To @RonJohn point, a lot will hinge on the language of bylaws and how the GOR contract addresses things.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Some of y’all just don’t see the big picture. If teams want to go then no contract written years ago will stop them. We’ve seen this over and over again in sports. Those who still believe a 5 page contract will stop anything until 2036 are delusional.

But you can carry on saying we aren’t lawyers and everything being reported is garbage, etc. Thats fine. But in a few years when lo and behold something breaks please remember that in 2022 you said the GOR will keep everything intact until 2036.

 

[RonJohn]

Some of y’all just don’t see the big picture. If teams want to go then no contract written years ago will stop them. We’ve seen this over and over again in sports. Those who still believe a 5 page contract will stop anything until 2036 are delusional.

But you can carry on saying we aren’t lawyers and everything being reported is garbage, etc. Thats fine. But in a few years when lo and behold something breaks please remember that in 2022 you said the GOR will keep everything intact until 2036.

I haven't said that the GOR is guaranteed to keep the ACC together.

You seem to keep missing the point that the GOR isn't just a contract to break and do what you want to do. As @slugboy has posted, it is more akin to giving the title of your house to the HOA. You can leave the HOA anytime you want to, but you can't use the equity in your house to pay for a new house somewhere else. The owner of your new house isn't going to accept a complaint that the HOA stole your house in leu of payment for his house. A team can leave the ACC, but the GOR means that it can't take the media rights to it's games with. The SEC can't broadcast a game in Chappel Hill. The Big10 can't broadcast a game in Atlanta.

 

[billga99]

Some of y’all just don’t see the big picture. If teams want to go then no contract written years ago will stop them. We’ve seen this over and over again in sports. Those who still believe a 5 page contract will stop anything until 2036 are delusional.

But you can carry on saying we aren’t lawyers and everything being reported is garbage, etc. Thats fine. But in a few years when lo and behold something breaks please remember that in 2022 you said the GOR will keep everything intact until 2036.

How exactly do you know this? Why would TX and Oklahoma wait until their GOR are completed with the Big 12? Why would UCLA and USC wait as well. Yes all 4 schools will happen much faster than 2036. But none of those schools tried to beat this legally. I would suspect the conferences carefully wrote these agreements to avoid loopholes. But to say the GOR has no teeth and schools can just walk away has no merit that I can see. As always, if more schools fight it, it could have more impact. But my suspicion is this will be a financial settlement which will be the ways schools can attempt to get around this. The big unknown remains the impact ESPN can have on all of this since they have control of the ACC Network and the bulk of the TV revenue with the ACC. And they clearly have a huge SEC bias.

 

[alagold]

A national sports writer just wrote a huge article on the SEC/Big Ten takeover and then how the ACC is in DEEP DEEP trouble with the best teams leaving (Clem, UNC, Fsu and uM) probably and the leftovers picking up Big East? .Didn't EVEN MENTION GT. It suggested the contract holding teams from leaving will be litigated and extended til forever, then thrown out.----So In 10 yrs we will be in a 2nd tier of college fball probably and maybe earlier..

 

[bobongo]

A national sports writer just wrote a huge article on the SEC/Big Ten takeover and then how the ACC is in DEEP DEEP trouble with the best teams leaving (Clem, UNC, Fsu and uM) probably and the leftovers picking up Big East? .Didn't EVEN MENTION GT. It suggested the contract holding teams from leaving will be litigated and extended til forever, then thrown out.----So In 10 yrs we will be in a 2nd tier of college fball probably and maybe earlier..

I don't believe him.

 

[GoldZ]

A national sports writer just wrote a huge article on the SEC/Big Ten takeover and then how the ACC is in DEEP DEEP trouble with the best teams leaving (Clem, UNC, Fsu and uM) probably and the leftovers picking up Big East? .Didn't EVEN MENTION GT. It suggested the contract holding teams from leaving will be litigated and extended til forever, then thrown out.----So In 10 yrs we will be in a 2nd tier of college fball probably and maybe earlier..

Wonder how this writer knows this when his peers knew nada about Tex/OK and USC/UCLA ?

 

[WreckinGT]

Some of y’all just don’t see the big picture. If teams want to go then no contract written years ago will stop them. We’ve seen this over and over again in sports. Those who still believe a 5 page contract will stop anything until 2036 are delusional.

But you can carry on saying we aren’t lawyers and everything being reported is garbage, etc. Thats fine. But in a few years when lo and behold something breaks please remember that in 2022 you said the GOR will keep everything intact until 2036.

So in your opinion Clemson, FSU, UNC are happy and don't want to leave the ACC? I guess we are good then.

 

[roadkill]

A national sports writer just wrote a huge article on the SEC/Big Ten takeover and then how the ACC is in DEEP DEEP trouble with the best teams leaving (Clem, UNC, Fsu and uM) probably and the leftovers picking up Big East? .Didn't EVEN MENTION GT. It suggested the contract holding teams from leaving will be litigated and extended til forever, then thrown out.----So In 10 yrs we will be in a 2nd tier of college fball probably and maybe earlier..

Well if an authority as solid as a National Sports Writer said it, it must be true. /s

 

[g0lftime]

Former UNC chancellor said they had considered going to BIG10 in 2010. Obviously didn't happen and may have had the NCAA investigation going on as well. He claims the presidents have no clue on how to run their big time athletic programs. The ACC supposedly redid the GOR in 2013 to dissuade teams leaving. There is some sort of buyout . I have seen $50M quoted and also seen $96M so not sure the real amount. Not sure how much ND would pay in a buyout if they leave or just go with GOR for non football sports.
Teams that really want to leave will likely test the contract in court according to a Raleigh attorney who defended UNC against the NCAA violations under Butch Davis. Maryland negotiated their buyout down when they left. How's that been working for them with all that B1G money.

 

[roadkill]

I’ve read that some number of ACC schools leaving would void the GOR agreement - I’ve read the magic number is either 6 or 8 leaving. Anybody know that number for sure?

Former UNC chancellor said they had considered going to BIG10 in 2010. Obviously didn't happen and may have had the NCAA investigation going on as well. He claims the presidents have no clue on how to run their big time athletic programs. The ACC supposedly redid the GOR in 2013 to dissuade teams leaving. There is some sort of buyout . I have seen $50M quoted and also seen $96M so not sure the real amount. Not sure how much ND would pay in a buyout if they leave or just go with GOR for non football sports.
Teams that really want to leave will likely test the contract in court according to a Raleigh attorney who defended UNC against the NCAA violations under Butch Davis. Maryland negotiated their buyout down when they left. How's that been working for them with all that B1G money.

You know, maybe a mod could make a sticky thread that captures what @slugboy and to a degree @RonJohn have been trying to explain to everyone but doesn't seem to be sinking in.

 

[orientalnc]

I wonder if an ACC team leaves and the conference demands their TV money, could the B1G or SEC claim that share of the payout was for something other than media and could not be shared outside the conference?

 

[bigrabbit]

You know, maybe a mod could make a sticky thread that captures what @slugboy and to a degree @RonJohn have been trying to explain to everyone but doesn't seem to be sinking in.

I get it about media rights, you can leave, but the conference retains media rights and the revenue. Simple.
But my question (since you quoted me) was about some number of schools bailing that triggers dissolution of the conference, thereby voiding all contracts including GOR.

 

[roadkill]

I get it about media rights, you can leave, but the conference retains media rights and the revenue. Simple.
But my question (since you quoted me) was about some number of schools bailing that triggers dissolution of the conference, thereby voiding all contracts including GOR.

To be fair, I had originally intended to respond separately to your quote, but then I saw @g0lftime's message and lumped y'all's together. More specific to your question, I haven't seen the current GoR (and it doesn't seem like any of the sport's writers commenting in articles and in the twitterverse have either) but I have read a recent article in The Athletic with an attorney's speculation based on the ACC's prior GoR which leads me to believe that there is no magic number of schools (other than all) that could legally change the GoR. I looked at the referenced GoR and didn't see the term "majority" for example. Instead, it uses terms like "each".
If anyone wants to see the actual GoR that was referenced (again, it's not current but it is assumed to be consistent in language with the current one), I may be able to link it or paste it.

 

[BonesGT]

Bovoda odds for conference realignment in 2022. Don't see us listed for either conference.

 

[NoPlayCard]

Bovoda odds for conference realignment in 2022. Don't see us listed for either conference.

View attachment 12639

If MGM, Ceasers, or another Vegas based book put these out I’d take it a little more seriously

 

[slugboy]

I get it about media rights, you can leave, but the conference retains media rights and the revenue. Simple.
But my question (since you quoted me) was about some number of schools bailing that triggers dissolution of the conference, thereby voiding all contracts including GOR.

I can’t find any rules that say “conferences must have at least 8 member schools”. The ESPN/ACC Network deal might have something in the contract that voids the deal if the conference shrinks below viability, but it’s possible that a poison pill is a poison pill.
More practically, member teams can rework the deal. If 4 teams want to leave and cost the remaining 10 teams a ton of money, there’s no majority vote to change the terms of league membership. If 12 out of 14 want to go, then I’m pretty sure the deal will get amended (unless ESPN is suing to stop it).
If FSU and Clemson were free agents, I think they'd have a good shot at SEC acceptance. They aren't "free" right now, though.

 

[stech81]

sorry I don;t have an account so I had to do it this way.









Andrea Adelson

@aadelsonESPN
·
Jul 8, 2022
Replying to @aadelsonESPN
Is anyone naive to think conversations are not happening outside ACC conference calls? Of course not. But the ACC believes it has what it needs to keep things together with its grant of rights. To underscore that point: Current withdrawal fee would stand at $120 million.









Andrea Adelson

@aadelsonESPN
·
Follow
That part could be litigated. The grant of rights is where things get challenging. Any departing school would have to pay the withdrawal fee, plus forfeit its media rights and the ability to have home games and some nonconference games air on TV. In all sports. Through 2036.
11:58 AM · Jul 8, 2022
https://twitter.com/intent/like?ref...6562434/?page=71&tweet_id=1545437219330080769

 

[Vespidae]

sorry I don;t have an account so I had to do it this way.




Andrea Adelson
@aadelsonESPN
·
Jul 8, 2022
Replying to @aadelsonESPN
Is anyone naive to think conversations are not happening outside ACC conference calls? Of course not. But the ACC believes it has what it needs to keep things together with its grant of rights. To underscore that point: Current withdrawal fee would stand at $120 million.




Andrea Adelson
@aadelsonESPN
·
Follow
That part could be litigated. The grant of rights is where things get challenging. Any departing school would have to pay the withdrawal fee, plus forfeit its media rights and the ability to have home games and some nonconference games air on TV. In all sports. Through 2036.
11:58 AM · Jul 8, 2022
https://twitter.com/intent/like?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1545437219330080769|twgr^|twcon^s1_&ref_url=https://247sports.com/college/georgia-tech/board/104173/Contents/accconference-businesssports-business-lounge-thread-no-12-146562434/?page=71&tweet_id=1545437219330080769

But here's a question. I read an article yesterday that speculated that FSU, UNC, Miami and Clemson will bolt for the SEC. Why? The enhanced value of the SEC rights will compensate for the GOR buyout.

And ... here's the question. The ACC, without those three, would as a consequence, suffer from a diminution of value for the remaining teams. (I'm wondering if the ACC could even survive in that case.) Which could mean that the recalculated value would be far, far less.

I have no idea if DOV is even in the contracts, but it stands to reason it should. Many management contracts do.