Conference Realignment

[MusicalBuzz]

FSU had more accomplishments during the season than almost every team. ESPN even had their own measure called “strength of record”, which they hid when FSU won the ACC championship.
It’s back after the beat down by UGA, and FSU plummeted.
I didn’t put FSU in the four best, but Bama doesn’t make that either. UGA does. Or maybe you get two B1G and two P12 teams. Most consistent systems would leave Bama out this year. Only a tortured and inconsistent committee vote would work.
They can win one off comparisons based on certain criteria, but most any recognizable process wouldn’t put them in the top 4

Agreed that FSU had a great season.. the majority it accomplished with their best player. And the committee acknowledged that Travis being out affected the final decision, as did their play over last couple games (or, if he had been injured earlier it’s considered FSU would not have had the same resume). And winning the ACC weakly over a questionable Louisville team didn’t help.

And when the conference champions of PAC, Big12, Big10 and SEC are selected (and, yes, Alabama earned its way in by beating uGA) — a 13-0 FSU team without its best player is not objectively better than the 12-1 teams. So decided the committee based on the season performance and current strength (which ESPN strength of record on the season doesn't factor). They got it right to the detriment of FSU, uGA and Ohio State who could all make a case. But so it is and FSU wasn’t robbed.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

Number 1 criteria for who gets in should be performance on the field. That is measured first by W/L. Period. cfp committee decided winning wasn’t the most important thing. That’s not something I’m interested in.

Well, the argument of not using pure W/L was the premise of my ERA analogy — that the best number doesn’t win the prize by default, the prize here being entry to the CFP. I want the four best teams playing, and that’s a more sophisticated measure than W/L (see: Liberty U). Give me all the available advanced stats and measures and honest discernment instead.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Well, the argument of not using pure W/L was the premise of my ERA analogy — that the best number doesn’t win the prize by default, the prize here being entry to the CFP. I want the four best teams playing, and that’s a more sophisticated measure than W/L (see: Liberty U). Give me all the available advanced stats and measures and honest discernment instead.

This isn't an individual award. It's a team-performance thing. There's no justification for what was done if it's about anything other than getting an SEC team into the 4-team playoff. There are 5 power conferences. If all 5 champions go undefeated, then you have grounds for leaving an undefeated P5 champion out. If you don't have 5 P5 undefeated champions, there is ZERO justification for leaving an undefeated P5 champion out. It's all just smoke and mirrors at that point. The cfp committee showed the world that it isn't about performance, it's about what they think is most entertaining. That's professional wrestling, not college football.

 

[RonJohn]

That's professional wrestling, not college football.

I still prefer College Football Pageant

 

[MusicalBuzz]

This isn't an individual award. It's a team-performance thing. There's no justification for what was done if it's about anything other than getting an SEC team into the 4-team playoff. There are 5 power conferences. If all 5 champions go undefeated, then you have grounds for leaving an undefeated P5 champion out. If you don't have 5 P5 undefeated champions, there is ZERO justification for leaving an undefeated P5 champion out. It's all just smoke and mirrors at that point. The cfp committee showed the world that it isn't about performance, it's about what they think is most entertaining. That's professional wrestling, not college football.

I know.. but the assessment is that the FSU Team was not the same team without its best player. And it literally showed on the field in performance. And a 13-0 team is not objectively better than a 12-1 team, nor is the CFP the NFL model of teams with the best record get in. (I’m repeating myself on these two points now)

It seems the biggest issue is that Alabama got in, but for goodness sake they lost one game early in the season to a CFP finalist and otherwise won out and beat uGA .. I don’t believe they are a controversy—not this year. And FSU was not one of the four best teams at the end of the year without Travis—congrats on a great season and it was close, but sorry you’re not a finalist.

 

[RonJohn]

But so it is and FSU wasn’t robbed.

That is your opinion. Your opinion is no more or less important than any one else's. The big issue is that we are still discussing everyone's opinion instead of actually crowning a champion.

On Bill Hancock's official website is says "No team automatically qualifies. Every FBS team has equal access to the playoff based on its performance." (I added the emphasis) The website doesn't actually say that they look for the four best teams. It specifically says "The selection committee chooses the four teams for the playoff based on strength of schedule, head-to-head results against common opponents, championships won and other factors." This year they started emphasizing "best" when it looked like there was an opportunity for the SEC to be left out. And by emphasizing, I mean that they were basically telegraphing that an SEC was going to get in no matter what.

I used to be confident that the expanded playoff would open up the opportunity for teams to get automatic bids. I am no longer confident in that. I detailed why earlier in the thread.

 

[slugboy]

Agreed that FSU had a great season.. the majority it accomplished with their best player. And the committee acknowledged that Travis being out affected the final decision, as did their play over last couple games (or, if he had been injured earlier it’s considered FSU would not have had the same resume). And winning the ACC weakly over a questionable Louisville team didn’t help.

And when the conference champions of PAC, Big12, Big10 and SEC are selected (and, yes, Alabama earned its way in by beating uGA) — a 13-0 FSU team without its best player is not objectively better than the 12-1 teams. So decided the committee based on the season performance and current strength (which ESPN strength of record on the season doesn't factor). They got it right to the detriment of FSU, uGA and Ohio State who could all make a case. But so it is and FSU wasn’t robbed.

That’s an inconsistent way of selecting four tournament (playoff) teams.
If you’re going to pick based on what they’ve accomplished during the season, do that.
If you’re going to pick the best four, do that.
If you’re going to pick conference champions, do that.
What you just described flip flops between accomplishments, an individual tiebreaker, and best four, back and forth, in no particular order. You can game that to pick the teams you want, and the committee has been doing that.
Again, all the professional leagues set out clear criteria that only requires someone to flip a coin when all else fails.
If you have a committee meeting to choose playoff teams, you’ve screwed up. You built an unfair and corrupt system.

 

[RonJohn]

It seems the biggest issue is that Alabama got in, but for goodness sake they lost one game early in the season to a CFP finalist and otherwise won out and beat uGA .. I don’t believe they are a controversy—not this year. And FSU was not one of the four best teams at the end of the year without Travis—congrats on a great season and it was close, but sorry you’re not a finalist.

The Alabama team this year was definitely not as good as the teams from years past. They got the same treatment the Colorado got in 1990. Lose a game, it doesn't matter. Actually lose a game, but count it as a win based on ref's error, it doesn't matter.(Alabama make a last second miracle to reek out a win against a 6-6 team) Just my opinion, but last year's Alabama team would have run this year's team off the field.

 

[MusicalBuzz]

The Alabama team this year was definitely not as good as the teams from years past. They got the same treatment the Colorado got in 1990. Lose a game, it doesn't matter. Actually lose a game, but count it as a win based on ref's error, it doesn't matter.(Alabama make a last second miracle to reek out a win against a 6-6 team) Just my opinion, but last year's Alabama team would have run this year's team off the field.

Yeah probably so! And yet they took out uGA’s win streak and had Michigan on the ropes bigly last night! I suppose next year’s 12-team format (and your Pageant analogy is spot on for that!) will mitigate the uproar this year .. but the FSU affair is exhausting lol

 

[GTjunkie]

I know.. but the assessment is that the FSU Team was not the same team without its best player. And it literally showed on the field in performance. And a 13-0 team is not objectively better than a 12-1 team, nor is the CFP the NFL model of teams with the best record get in. (I’m repeating myself on these two points now)

It seems the biggest issue is that Alabama got in, but for goodness sake they lost one game early in the season to a CFP finalist and otherwise won out and beat uGA .. I don’t believe they are a controversy—not this year. And FSU was not one of the four best teams at the end of the year without Travis—congrats on a great season and it was close, but sorry you’re not a finalist.

Do you know what the committee did, with regards to FSU, after they beat Florida with their backup QB?

 

[wrmathis]

Do you know what the committee did, with regards to FSU, after they beat Florida with their backup QB?

I think this is the biggest thing to me. They moved fsu up to 4 knowing they had a backup qb playing. Fsu then goes out and wins and they drop them out of the top 4. That doesn’t make sense at all

 

[RonJohn]

Yeah probably so! And yet they took out uGA’s win streak and had Michigan on the ropes bigly last night! I suppose next year’s 12-team format (and your Pageant analogy is spot on for that!) will mitigate the uproar this year .. but the FSU affair is exhausting lol

This year's mutt team didn't look as good as the teams from the last couple of years either.

What is exhausting is the SEC spin. (Not saying you, just in general) It was obvious by the eye test to most people that the SEC was not a dominant conference this year. However, they still get the benefit of the doubt. Lose OOC as an entire conference and it doesn't mean anything. A lot was made of Louisville's loss to Kentucky, but that was the best win OOC by ANY SEC team this year. The SEC spin is that Louisville is horrible. But that spin is forgotten when discussing OOC records, because that would mean that the SEC's best OOC win was against a horrible team.

The exhausting part is that there is an idea by the SEC hype-sters that the SEC is the best. The definition of best and the factors that determine the best change every year to match whatever matches the conclusion that the SEC is the best.

 

[RonJohn]

I think this is the biggest thing to me. They moved fsu up to 4 knowing they had a backup qb playing. Fsu then goes out and wins and they drop them out of the top 4. That doesn’t make sense at all

It makes perfect sense to me. They didn't know that Alabama was going to win. If the mutts had won, then the top four would not have changed. FSU got dropped out because they couldn't get an SEC team in otherwise.

 

[bobongo]

I think this is the biggest thing to me. They moved fsu up to 4 knowing they had a backup qb playing. Fsu then goes out and wins and they drop them out of the top 4. That doesn’t make sense at all

It's the smoking gun. Not much way around it. They had them #4 with the backup QB, and then they had a problem when Alabama beat Ugag.

 

[ThatGuy]

Number 1 criteria for who gets in should be performance on the field. That is measured first by W/L. Period. cfp committee decided winning wasn’t the most important thing. That’s not something I’m interested in.

Exactly. And this is why the 4-team "playoff" has been a travesty from the beginning.

Almost 20 years ago, I agreed with Dan Wetzel's calls for a 16-team playoff that included all the conference champions - yes, even the so-called "lesser" conferences - and a number of at-large teams. AS he put it,

Yes, all 11, even the lousy conferences. While no one would argue that the Sun Belt champ is one of the top 16 teams in the country, its presence is paramount to maintaining the integrity and relevancy of the regular season. While the idea that the season is a four-month playoff is both inaccurate and absurd – best proven this year – college football's roller-coaster regular season needs to be protected.

That was 2009. And what did we get? A compromise, that watered down the whole concept in the interest of the bowl money.

And in so-doing, may have killed what made college football great.

With a playoff with all the conference winners (and a number of at-larges) represented, it would be nearly impossible to argue that the winner wasn't the true champion, because the results would be laid out on the field. You want to win the natty? Win your conference in the regular season.

You could choose the at-large teams by committee, or by computer, or by straw poll of coaches and/or journalists. There would always be someone who was "left out," sure...but with a field that size, there would be a strong argument that they simply didn't do enough on the field to get in.

Now, next year we move to a 12-team playoff, and I'm thankful for that. But of course there's an asterisk - we've added byes for the teams who are deemed the "best." Yet again, we're putting a group of people in a room and letting them decide which 4 don't have to prove something in a game. The system will be better, sure - but we're still giving advantage based on the same human biases that got us to this point today.

For a game that supposedly is about players fighting it out on the gridiron, we sure do bend over backwards to avoid settling things on the field.

 

[GTjunkie]

I think this is the biggest thing to me. They moved fsu up to 4 knowing they had a backup qb playing. Fsu then goes out and wins and they drop them out of the top 4. That doesn’t make sense at all

Bingo.

 

[TechPhi97]

The backup FSU QB would have been in way over his head. He was against Louisville and UL's defense is so far below either UM or UT's defense. The FSU backup QB transferred because he knew he had no chance to be FSU's starter next year. FSU was getting their starter from the Portal regardless if the backup stayed.

The kid probably doesn’t enter the portal now if they are in the playoff. He can always do it in April and has a chance for a championship.

 

[yellajacket20]

It makes perfect sense to me. They didn't know that Alabama was going to win. If the mutts had won, then the top four would not have changed. FSU got dropped out because they couldn't get an SEC team in otherwise.

Exactly. Had the mutts won, Texas would have been left out because of the loss and FSU would have been in. 4 undefeated conference champs. But once the mutts lost, they had to find a way to put the SEC champ in and they couldn't do that without including Texas because they beat Bama.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I know.. but the assessment is that the FSU Team was not the same team without its best player. And it literally showed on the field in performance. And a 13-0 team is not objectively better than a 12-1 team, nor is the CFP the NFL model of teams with the best record get in. (I’m repeating myself on these two points now)

It seems the biggest issue is that Alabama got in, but for goodness sake they lost one game early in the season to a CFP finalist and otherwise won out and beat uGA .. I don’t believe they are a controversy—not this year. And FSU was not one of the four best teams at the end of the year without Travis—congrats on a great season and it was close, but sorry you’re not a finalist.

FSU won every game put in front of them, even with having to play a 3rd string freshman in the ACCCG (who wouldn't have been playing in the cfp).

A 13-0 P5 team has earned it on the field over a 12-1 P5 team. There's just no to get around that. There's a full stop there. No need to go any further. PERIOD. Any attempt to go further is an apologist's errand.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Yeah probably so! And yet they took out uGA’s win streak and had Michigan on the ropes bigly last night! I suppose next year’s 12-team format (and your Pageant analogy is spot on for that!) will mitigate the uproar this year .. but the FSU affair is exhausting lol

The problem is you can swap out FSU for Washington or Michigan and I'd be just as angry about it. To leave an undefeated P5 champion out for 2 1-loss teams is an indefensible travesty.