Conference Realignment

[g0lftime]

Reference the FSU case against the ACC, I have attached the 38-page filing. Maybe some of our GT lawyers can take a look and give an opinion as to likely success by FSU.

Much of the case seems to be about mismanagement by the ACC and Commissioner Swofford. One point that was of interest to me was that the suit claims that the 9-year extension of Tier 1 rights from 2027 to 2036 was not voted on and approved by the Directors (Presidents of the ACC). If that can be proven in court, FSU might be able to leave the conference in 2027. Just a non-lawyer's opinion.

I would think that might be theit best shot of exiting the GOR on 2027 with a sympathetic judge. I think less than 50/50 though. I never liked them before but now I loathe them.

 

[g0lftime]

Going against one of the top defenses in the country (who their coach has amped up and gotten them pissed) isn’t how you showcase things

In 5 years nobody will remember exactly why they lost so badly in the 2024 orange bowl.

 

[stinger78]

Yea, it really ticks me off, they blame the ACC for their short-comings, but they haven't exactly dominated the conference in recent times, and now have created all this turmoil. I can't believe I'm saying this, but in a sick kind of way, I hope UGAG buries them.

I was wanting them to destroy UGAg but now I just want FSU to get dominated. I want the whole world to know what a bunch of pansies they are.

 

[CEB]

Do you think the possible non-approval by the presidents concerning extension of the Tier One rights has any merit?

As I understand, the extension option to 2036 is not the biggest issue. The issue is that the ACC extended the deadline for ESPN to make the DECISION on the extension until ‘25. FSU (or any school) could potentially make a claim that the extended deadline causes them damage because they would potentially have only 24 months to react if ESPN elected not to exercise the 2036 option.

An option is always exercised by one party, so the allegation that the ACC acted in bad faith by having a “unilateral” option is silly… unless the ACC hid the option entirely. FSU makes it sound like ACC actually did represent that the deal was guaranteed money thru ‘36 when they knew it was not. That would be a big deal…. And maybe it is, because no one was talking about a ‘27 expiration until this week.

If the ACC completely hid the ball on the whole extension option, I think we would be hearing from more schools than just FSU. And if the ACC unilaterally extended the timeframe for ESPN to decide on the option, it shouldn’t have been a surprise because supposedly it would’ve transpired in ‘21-‘22 (that’s the part I have not seen verified).

Like a lot of legal stuff, I think 99% of this is unsubstantiated allegation. There may be a half a page worth of interesting stuff in this option business though…

 

[CEB]

This is the first time I have seen the latest version. It's clear that the ESPN agreement is an integral part of the GOR, and that ESPN made the extension until 2036 a prerequisite for their current contract. I'm not a lawyer, but it would appear that if ESPN chooses to not exercise their option in 2027, the 2016 GOR becomes contestable. This seems to be the issue that FSU is making noise about.

I agree with this… in my uninformed, non-legal opinion.
The references to ESPN Agreement in the GOR (if confirmed… not sure we’ve seen the official current document) seem to indicate that it exists for the satisfaction of the ESPN deal, thru ‘27 or ‘36, at ESPN’s election.
I don’t think the ACC has the right to “shop” the last 9 years of GOR to another media partner.

Total speculation….If ESPN is really pulling puppet strings the way some believe, there is very little chance they exercise the option and that should make for a very interesting reshuffling in ‘28 (which I think coincides with BIG deals). On the flip, if ESPN controls the option, could they somehow use it to make sure certain “brands” aren’t lost to BiG / Fox? That’s getting awfully conspiratorial for my taste…

Edit to add… with the new knowledge that guaranteed money is only thru ‘27, the potential damages are now reduced to three years of revenues; not 12. If FSU and another school or two decide they want to leave, they are starting with a much lower potential “damage” to the ACC and other members. We all kept saying things would start happening 2-3 years before expiration of the deal (thinking ‘33-ish) but that’s effectively become right now…

 

[RonJohn]

Do you think the possible non-approval by the presidents concerning extension of the Tier One rights has any merit?

I am not a lawyer either, but every single ACC member signed the 2016 GOR extension. FSU signed away their media rights to the ACC until 2036. I didn't see any explanation for the item you are discussing, just one sentence which said that the proper procedures were not followed. In legal filings, many make statements that are their "interpretation" of the facts. This filing is full of non-relevant information, like how much other conferences get in media dollars. This filing is full of conflations, such as saying the exit penalties and the GOR are the same thing. The entire document reads like people of FSU fan forums put it together. I don't think any of it has any merit at all.

In order for FSU to win anything in the filings they have entered, they will need to case to be heard in Florida and get a judge assigned who is susceptible to political pressure. All of their claims are that they signed away too much, and that the ACC hasn't done as well as other conferences. If they can win, then any person who owns stock in a company that doesn't perform as well as their competition could sue for the company to buy back their stock at the current valuation of the competing company.

 

[bobongo]

I was wanting them to destroy UGAg but now I just want FSU to get dominated. I want the whole world to know what a bunch of pansies they are.

The irony is that the ones on the field who would get dominated are the ones who are not pansies. The pansies will be sitting at home.

 

[4shotB]

I was wanting them to destroy UGAg but now I just want FSU to get dominated. I want the whole world to know what a bunch of pansies they are.

This is tough. A big part of me feels the same way. But we have to assume Uga is not going to be all that fired up not playing in the CFP. If they wax FSU it adds credence to the fact that FSU did in fact NOT deserve to be in the mix. Not a good look for the ACC...and an even bigger black eye for the Noles. It will fan the flames of the ir "petulant child" image. This is a lose/lose situation for nearly everyone.

 

[CEB]

In order for FSU to win anything in the filings they have entered, they will need to case to be heard in Florida and get a judge assigned who is susceptible to political pressure. All of their claims are that they signed away too much, and that the ACC hasn't done as well as other conferences. If they can win, then any person who owns stock in a company that doesn't perform as well as their competition could sue for the company to buy back their stock at the current valuation of the competing company.

it appears they’ve checked that box.

 

[RonJohn]

Total speculation….If ESPN is really pulling puppet strings the way some believe, there is very little chance they exercise the option and that should make for a very interesting reshuffling in ‘28 (which I think coincides with BIG deals). On the flip, if ESPN controls the option, could they somehow use it to make sure certain “brands” aren’t lost to BiG / Fox? That’s getting awfully conspiratorial for my taste…

A problem with this thinking is that the ACC is currently the most cost efficient college football programming for ESPN. (At least according to a couple of reports I have seen) Meaning that revenue per payout is higher for the ACC than for other conferences that ESPN carries. If ESPN gets four or six members into the SEC/Big10, it pays more for whichever schools go to the SEC. It loses whichever schools go to the Big10. It likely loses most of the rest of the schools. The net result would be losing content, paying more per school for content that ESPN already has at a cheaper price, and losing some content to competing networks. Even if I believe there is a conspiracy going on, it doesn't make financial sense for ESPN to do so.

 

[stinger78]

The irony is that the ones on the field who would get dominated are the ones who are not pansies. The pansies will be sitting at home.

I just absolutely cannot wrap my brain around walking out on an undefeated season 13/14th of the way completed.

 

[bobongo]

I just absolutely cannot wrap my brain around walking out on an undefeated season 13/14th of the way completed.

Yeah, I can't either.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

There is nothing that can make me want Uga to win, but that does not mean I will be upset if FSU loses

 

[stinger78]

This is tough. A big part of me feels the same way. But we have to assume Uga is not going to be all that fired up not playing in the CFP. If they wax FSU it adds credence to the fact that FSU did in fact NOT deserve to be in the mix. Not a good look for the ACC...and an even bigger black eye for the Noles. It will fan the flames of the ir "petulant child" image. This is a lose/lose situation for nearly everyone.

I think everyone will know there was a whole-scale bail on the game. It will reflect very poorly in FSU - it already is - and Mike Norvell as well.

 

[RonJohn]

it appears they’ve checked that box.
View attachment 15430

Maybe. Didn't the ACC file in court on Thursday to have the case heard in NC? I have read that but haven't actually looked thru news articles to see if it was true. IF the case is heard in Florida, I'm sure the ACC will move to have an FSU alum removed as the judge. IF the case is heard in Florida, and heard by an FSU alumnus, and FSU wins then I'm sure the ACC would appeal in Florida and in federal court. Even IF they get their GOR back in such a scenario, it will be on appeal for several years during which no other conference will invite FSU. I really have no idea what the FSU BOT really believes this will accomplish other than get the FSU fans off of their backs for a while.

 

[CEB]

A problem with this thinking is that the ACC is currently the most cost efficient college football programming for ESPN. (At least according to a couple of reports I have seen) Meaning that revenue per payout is higher for the ACC than for other conferences that ESPN carries. If ESPN gets four or six members into the SEC/Big10, it pays more for whichever schools go to the SEC. It loses whichever schools go to the Big10. It likely loses most of the rest of the schools. The net result would be losing content, paying more per school for content that ESPN already has at a cheaper price, and losing some content to competing networks. Even if I believe there is a conspiracy going on, it doesn't make financial sense for ESPN to do so.

Agree.
But we also don’t know what the option terms are either. It’s possible that the option won’t be as lucrative for ESPN.
That said, is it realistic to think the ACC negotiated that well?

 

[CEB]

Maybe. Didn't the ACC file in court on Thursday to have the case heard in NC? I have read that but haven't actually looked thru news articles to see if it was true. IF the case is heard in Florida, I'm sure the ACC will move to have an FSU alum removed as the judge. IF the case is heard in Florida, and heard by an FSU alumnus, and FSU wins then I'm sure the ACC would appeal in Florida and in federal court. Even IF they get their GOR back in such a scenario, it will be on appeal for several years during which no other conference will invite FSU. I really have no idea what the FSU BOT really believes this will accomplish other than get the FSU fans off of their backs for a while.

Didn’t see that, but I’m sure there is about zero chance this begins and ends in a Florida courtroom.

 

[4shotB]

That said, is it realistic to think the ACC negotiated that well?

Call me a cynic but anything that the ACC does/did well falls purely into the "blind squirrel finding the occasional acorn" category.

 

[orientalnc]

Edit to add… with the new knowledge that guaranteed money is only thru ‘27,

Maybe the FSU lawyers are 100% correct about this, but no one else is publicly agreeing with them. Or I missed the headlines. It seems like a very easy fact to verify. There are some really smart people in the ACC and I cannot, even in my most negative view of the ACC front office, see them signing an agreement with ESPN that gives 100% control over the economic value of the agreement to ESPN.

 

[GTJake]

B10 and SEC AD's to FSU : What are your qualifications for joining our conference ?
FSU : We are FSU !!
B10 and SEC AD's : How many ACC Conference titles have you won recently ?
FSU : UMMMM
B10 and SEC AD's: How many CFP appearances have you had ?
FSU : UMMMM, 1
B10 and SEC AD's: When was that ?
FSU : 2014
B10 and SEC AD's : That was 10 years ago ... tell us why you think your something special.
FSU : We are FSU !!