Conference Realignment

[orientalnc]

ND's former AD mentioned a few years ago he thought the split that was coming in FBS was an academic vs non-academic one. There would be colleges that basically would want to play the game where kids didn't have to go to school, would be payed, etc. There would be a separate league for colleges that wanted to still have some sort of student-athlete model, not just a pure minor league player model.

In many ways how attractive an academic type model would be would depend upon which schools would be in it. ND would be the #1 decision. If they decided to play in the academic league - already you would be able to get a solid media contract. More importantly, if a ND decided on playing in an academic league there would be others who would make the decision to play in it.

My UNC neighbor talked to me about this a while back. He is interested in knowing if a university will be able to have it both ways -- a team of student athletes and a team of paid players. He thinks schools like FSU and Clemson will want to play at the highest level, but donations to a pro football team might not be something their current donors will like. Could they have their own little farm system with kids that don't make the pro team. Also, would those donations (to the pro team) be tax deductible.

 

[Bogey]

ND's former AD mentioned a few years ago he thought the split that was coming in FBS was an academic vs non-academic one. There would be colleges that basically would want to play the game where kids didn't have to go to school, would be payed, etc. There would be a separate league for colleges that wanted to still have some sort of student-athlete model, not just a pure minor league player model.

In many ways how attractive an academic type model would be would depend upon which schools would be in it. ND would be the #1 decision. If they decided to play in the academic league - already you would be able to get a solid media contract. More importantly, if a ND decided on playing in an academic league there would be others who would make the decision to play in it.

I cannot see ND not playing in the academic league. They just joined the AAU schools last summer. All AAU schools are committed to academics to become a member and retain membership.

 

[RonJohn]

I cannot see ND not playing in the academic league. They just joined the AAU schools last summer. All AAU schools are committed to academics to become a member and retain membership.

But the AAU has nothing at all to do with athletics. If a member school decides to sponsor a professional sports team, it does nothing at all to the academic and research standing of the school.

 

[Bogey]

But the AAU has nothing at all to do with athletics. If a member school decides to sponsor a professional sports team, it does nothing at all to the academic and research standing of the school.

I am not sure how the AAU would look at schools who supported professional teams since no members do now, but my opinion is they would not approve of it since it has nothing to do with education.

 

[orientalnc]

I am not sure how the AAU would look at schools who supported professional teams since no members do now, but my opinion is they would not approve of it since it has nothing to do with education.

It's hard to see how the professional team fits organizationally with a university. But, I don't like the not-for-profit status of the current athletic associations. Especially since their revenue and expenses are walled off from the rest of the university. Maybe the fact that actual students are playing on the teams polishes that flaw a bit. But, if the pro team is filled with guys who never enrolled at the university, that disappears. Or, it seems to.

 

[RonJohn]

I am not sure how the AAU would look at schools who supported professional teams since no members do now, but my opinion is they would not approve of it since it has nothing to do with education.

I don't really understand why you think that way. The AAU requirements have to do with academics, level of research, and school endowments. There isn't a requirement to participate or restrain from participating in any level of athletics. If a school starting a professional sports franchise reduced the academics, dollars of research, or drained down the endowment, then the AAU might be concerned. If the school maintained the same level of those requirements, then participating in professional sports wouldn't have anything to do with the schools participation in the AAU.

 

[Bogey]

I don't really understand why you think that way. The AAU requirements have to do with academics, level of research, and school endowments. There isn't a requirement to participate or restrain from participating in any level of athletics. If a school starting a professional sports franchise reduced the academics, dollars of research, or drained down the endowment, then the AAU might be concerned. If the school maintained the same level of those requirements, then participating in professional sports wouldn't have anything to do with the schools participation in the AAU.

And I don't understand why you think the AAU would approve of schools owning professional sports teams when it has nothing to do with students and academics and would detract from their main mission of education and research.
Since neither one if us know for sure, we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

And I don't understand why you think the AAU would approve of schools owning professional sports teams when it has nothing to do with students and academics and would detract from their main mission of education and research.
Since neither one if us know for sure, we will have to wait and see how it plays out.

Not really. The AAU is solely interested in academics and research. Projecting an objection on their part to sports, professional or "amateur" is just that, projection.

 

[Randy Carson]

This is exactly why I am of the opinion that GA Tech needs to just let the factories go here. Atlanta already has one pro team. We do not need another. We can really enjoy a good college football team, though, made up of actual S-A's.

As much as I would love to see Tech return to a perennial perch among the Top 25, I just don't see this happening in the long run unless we are invited to join the B1g 10 or some NFL-type of revenue sharing model is adopted in which all teams are paid equally for putting a product on the field and on television.

Schools with 100,000-seat stadiums will earn more revenue than those with half-full 50k-seat venues, of course, but at least the conferences and their members would have equal slices of the broadcast/bowl game pie split between four major conferences.

Otherwise, I see us playing in an Ivy-league type of conference at some point in the not-too-distant future. The money just won't be there for anything else.

 

[Randy Carson]

You have to wonder what that would look like. We have already seen what happens when we put a poor product on the field. If we put a lesser product on the field, will fans still support the program?

If we are conference champions, yes. Just ask Appalachian State about their attendance figures.

 

[Randy Carson]

Bingo. This is why I hope for a continued strong(er) ACC.
ACC is easily the best fit for GT.

B1G would be fine from an academic standpoint for the ACC, but it does not fit from a geographic standpoint and it does not fit from a school alumni perspective - with just a couple of exceptions B1G schools are the huge 'state' school with large enrollments and massive alumni bases. GT would be at a big disadvantage in that league as it would get the media rights contract (though maybe not immediately), but the additional revenue that these larger schools make would dwarf what GT makes.
SEC would be a geographic fit, but would not be an academic fit at all and once again you are talking about mostly large 'state' schools with larger alumni bases.

Fans worry about the media contracts, but that is not the primary driver between the haves and the have nots in college football. The primary driver is the other revenue sources. Ohio St AD mentioned they make over $100M in revenue from their home football games. That is as much as the total revenue GT makes.
If GT got a bid to the B1G and got a full share (remember for now OR and WA are only getting $30M - do you think GT would get more than that?) - it would get an additional $20M yr in revenue (last year ACC payouts were around $40M while B1G's were around $60M, SEC was around $50M), but it would now be competing in a league where the average revenue per school is so much higher - roughly $36M.

GT is currently 9th in ACC revenue ahead of NCST, Pitt, BC, Syracuse and Wake. It is roughly $10M below the league avg. If it moved to the current 14 team B1G and got the extra $20M it would be 11th out of 15 teams (ahead of MD, Rutgers, Northwestern and Purdue and basically equivalent with Minn) and be roughly $26M below the league avg. In the expanded B1G it would also be significantly behind OR. WA and USC in revenue, though it would be in roughly the same spot as UCLA. If GT got the same deal as WA and OR then it would likely be in the MD, Rutgers, UCLA grouping at the very bottom of the conference.

From a revenue standpoint moving from the ACC would put GT in a worse competitive revenue situation than it has in the ACC. You are no longer competing in a conference where the avg revenue is around $118M, you are now competing in a conference where the avg revenue is around $154M.

If you look at who would be in a 12 team CFP this season all 11 (excluding the G5 bid) are among the schools with the 28 largest revenues in the country (Missouri is #28) and the Top 5 in revenue would all be in. 10 of the 11 would be in the Top 25. 6 of the Top 10 would get bids and 2 of the 4 others in the Top 10 would be among the first 3 out.
Even if GT got B1G money it would still be $20M below the Top 25 in revenue.

This is why I keep arguing for an English Football relegation system.

We should embrace (and enjoy) multiple national championships in football just like we have multiple weight division champions in boxing.

Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard were both great fighters and they both drew huge audiences. But they didn't fight each other for a reason.

 

[Randy Carson]

The ACC is the right spot for us.

But what is the right spot for the ACC? Academics or athletics?

I'm not convinced that many schools - especially the smaller ones - can have both.

 

[Bogey]

Not really. The AAU is solely interested in academics and research. Projecting an objection on their part to sports, professional or "amateur" is just that, projection.

Very true Augusta Jacket, a statement of the obvious. But sometimes my "projections" prove to be very accurate.

 

[stinger 1957]

I could see the schools participating in the pay players system also having amateur sports for all the rest of the sports. I'm guessing GT will be in the pay the players system based on a few things that have been said. Atlanta carries a lot of weight in that system.

 

[UgaBlows]

I personally just don’t see schools ever fielding “pro” teams with paid athletes who aren’t even enrolled or take classes.

 

[orientalnc]

I'm guessing GT will be in the pay the players system based on a few things that have been said. Atlanta carries a lot of weight in that system.

There are a ton of questions that will require give & take among the schools and whatever becomes the governing body. And with the NCAA.

The biggest question is whether the schools can organize the pro team within the current financial structure of the athletic association. Will they be able to pay players and coaches with money donated to their 5019c)(3) non-profit oraginzation? If not, where will the initial funding come from? Investors? Will those investors be owners or creditors?

Will schools be allowed to play both a pro team and a traditional SA team? Will players be able to move back & forth between the two?

Assuming the pro guys will not have to attend class, and money is not an issue, I can see Atlanta (and Ga Tech) being a genuine attraction.

 

[g0lftime]

There are a ton of questions that will require give & take among the schools and whatever becomes the governing body. And with the NCAA.

The biggest question is whether the schools can organize the pro team within the current financial structure of the athletic association. Will they be able to pay players and coaches with money donated to their 5019c)(3) non-profit oraginzation? If not, where will the initial funding come from? Investors? Will those investors be owners or creditors?

Will schools be allowed to play both a pro team and a traditional SA team? Will players be able to move back & forth between the two?

Assuming the pro guys will not have to attend class, and money is not an issue, I can see Atlanta (and Ga Tech) being a genuine attraction.00000000000000000000000000

Then the pro guys should have to pay taxes on the value of their scholarships. They are getting a nice ride as it is without taxes and most couldn't get entrance without an athletic scholarship. That doesn't seem to have any real value to a lot of these kids.

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

There are a ton of questions that will require give & take among the schools and whatever becomes the governing body. And with the NCAA.

Based on their performance since the turn of the millennium, I would fully expect the NCAA to be totally feckless and a non-entity in the decision making surrounding whatever CFB morphs into....

 

[orientalnc]

Based on their performance since the turn of the millennium, I would fully expect the NCAA to be totally feckless and a non-entity in the decision making surrounding whatever CFB morphs into....

Maybe I am being naive, but I believe the job of overseeing traditional college sports will be easier when those pro teams are being baby sat by someone other than the NCAA. I think the NCAA can tell players who want to transfer, "Sit a year. You're in school to get an education. You want to play as a pro, have at it at one of those so called college pro teams." I think they will also be able to tell the schools, "Your players need to be getting an education. The NFL bound guys are not on your team." Will the NCAA actually do that? I am not optimistic.

 

[g0lftime]

Maybe I am being naive, but I believe the job of overseeing traditional college sports will be easier when those pro teams are being baby sat by someone other than the NCAA. I think the NCAA can tell players who want to transfer, "Sit a year. You're in school to get an education. You want to play as a pro, have at it at one of those so called college pro teams." I think they will also be able to tell the schools, "Your players need to be getting an education. The NFL bound guys are not on your team." Will the NCAA actually do that? I am not optimistic.

The NCAA is a collective group of universities overseen by the college presidents. They have no real legal authority. As a member institution you have agreed to abide by the rules as a condition of membership. Enforcement is now almost nonexistent and the recent changes are a result of lawsuits. Until there are laws governing CFB it will remain out of control and courts with subpoena power are about the only way to catch and punish violators. Sorry it has come to this but the desire to win at all cost has created this mess.