Concerns

AE 87

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I can't disagree with most of these recent contributions. I am hesitant to agree with cpj being too stubborn. He did put in the pistol and diamond to, apparently, give vad am opportunity to thrive. He hasn't. Vad has less than great mechanics when passing. Hopefully, he'll get better.

We all saw Calvin making incredible catches, and wondered why Chan didn't call more plays for him. I haven't SEEN evidence that Vad can run something else better.
 

Leonard Larramore

Jolly Good Fellow
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213
I understand what your're what you are saying and Vad does have poor mechanics but this was the issue when he entered Ga Tech. What is being done to improve his mechanics? I know during the summer he practiced with a NFL caliber trainer and show some improvement in practice but seems to be digressing. He does have the ability to make the short 5-10 yard pass. The other problem is most of our routes when we do pass are long. I think we are trying to make Vad something he is not. A option type QB. One thing that I can see is that he was exposed to success a little prematurely. Many thought because of his flashes good play last year he was going to be great. Then this year came the interviews, ESPN, magazines etc... Things that can cause a player to be distracted. I made the same mistake. During my rookie season I benched 660 and was clocked at a 4.8 40. Man I received several interviews and remember the broadcaster announcing my name as I exited the tunnel for my first game. It was crazy. It was a pre season game and man out had a great showing. I got a little cocky and remember one practice Bruce Smith CLEANED MY CLOCK! Dude hit me so hard I saw Lucky Charms. After that practice we were in the locker room and he said two words. "Stay Focused". After that I had to eliminate outside influences and really realize that I had a lot to learn. Same with Vad. He has a lot to learn and can get there but he needs a QB coach to work him the entire summer. CJ needs to find Vad's strengths and build on them. The short pass is there. Trust me. Watch the film. It is there every play. LB's are to focused on the option.
 

AE 87

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I agree with you, LL. I think the second part of your post is probably the biggest issue. In an interview this past week, Vad said something like he was just beginning to learn the importance of the little details.

I also agree about how open the shorter routes are. I think this game was one of the few where vad checked down fairly well,

Also, if you look at Cook's QBs, it seems that cpj did hire a guy who can develop QBs.
 

ToddM

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I actually think Vad had his best decision making game of his short option career against Clemson. If you watch the game again you will see less panic, in my view, and a hell of a lot better form when he did pass. The broadcasters even spoke of it in the 2nd half. Yes maybe they were trying to give us some respect but this could have been a point of maturity for Vad.

It leads me back to my original point though, CPJ has to recognize and acknowledge when the defense isn't even concerned about the pass. He has to put Vad in the diamond or shotgun with the intention of throwing the ball as a first call.

I think Vad can fit this offense IF we remember that this offense is suppose to be explosive. It's not explosive right now because CPJ has become bound and determined they will run the option until it's done right. I disagree that Vad hasn't developed any. I think it's better said that he is not being allowed to show ALL of his abilities. Vad needs confidence and you can't develop that by running into the DE, SS, CB and LB every play as you try to pitch the ball. I would imagine that's very frustrating for anyone much less a kid. CPJ needs to expose these defenses that are crowding the line, once they are made to respect the pass Vad will have more development in the option because the corners will be clean as CPJ always talks about. Until then we may as well get use to seeing Vad being under a pile of defensive players out on the strung out corner.
 

Leonard Larramore

Jolly Good Fellow
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213
Pretty sure the times you guys are referring to the safety not helping with dj we were in a zero blitz. Thus 1 on 1 coverage with no safety help in order to send 6 after the qb.
ATL1
I actually think Vad had his best decision making game of his short option career against Clemson. If you watch the game again you will see less panic, in my view, and a hell of a lot better form when he did pass. The broadcasters even spoke of it in the 2nd half. Yes maybe they were trying to give us some respect but this could have been a point of maturity for Vad.

It leads me back to my original point though, CPJ has to recognize and acknowledge when the defense isn't even concerned about the pass. He has to put Vad in the diamond or shotgun with the intention of throwing the ball as a first call.

I think Vad can fit this offense IF we remember that this offense is suppose to be explosive. It's not explosive right now because CPJ has become bound and determined they will run the option until it's done right. I disagree that Vad hasn't developed any. I think it's better said that he is not being allowed to show ALL of his abilities. Vad needs confidence and you can't develop that by running into the DE, SS, CB and LB every play as you try to pitch the ball. I would imagine that's very frustrating for anyone much less a kid. CPJ needs to expose these defenses that are crowding the line, once they are made to respect the pass Vad will have more development in the option because the corners will be clean as CPJ always talks about. Until then we may as well get use to seeing Vad being under a pile of defensive players out on the strung out corner.
Great input!!!!!!
 

ybeenormal

Jolly Good Fellow
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Great posts Leonard. I wish nothin but the best for the rest of your journey. It s just not right when youre given a timeline
 

awbuzz

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No forgiving to be done.. my opinion is no greater than anybody else's. Especially someonene who has so much knowledge of the game like yourself.

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts...always look forward to reading them.

BTW I will keep you in my prayers.
+1
 

gtg936g

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First let me say this is a great discussion.

This weekend I watched some of the early games Tevin had when Nesbit got hurt. He looked indecisive just like Vad. This has made me wonder if the speed of the defense is one of the things that Vad is dealing with. It is hard for opposing teams to simulate the speed of our offense, it is difficult for us to simulate the speed of their defense. I can imagine that he looks better at the option in practice.

We often do not pass until we are in trouble. I imagine by then Vad feels like he is playing the game in fast forward. It may be in our best interest to come out and just run some slants to let Vad get a feel for the speed of the game, and then go to the option run game. I think this would throw off a D like UGA who is definitely going to come out and be super aggressive to stop the run. Against Alabama AM it may not look like he is seeing the game in fast forward, due to the difference in talent.
 

AE 87

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gtg936g, I think you're on to something. Last year, I think Vad had a lot of success as an athletic QB when he could just make plays. He's a winner, and I think his confidence in his ability to make plays has slowed his focus on learning the offense. He made a comment last week that I interpreted as confirmation of this. Tevin made huge improvement between 2010 and 2011, and I expect the same for Vad.
 

John

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This weekend I watched some of the early games Tevin had when Nesbit got hurt. He looked indecisive just like Vad. This has made me wonder if the speed of the defense is one of the things that Vad is dealing with. It is hard for opposing teams to simulate the speed of our offense, it is difficult for us to simulate the speed of their defense. I can imagine that he looks better at the option in practice.
This could explain all the cutting and direction changes that he's trying to do... as if he still believes that he can beat the defense by himself.
 

Goatman95

Georgia Tech Fan
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51
KG You are on it. I want to address something about the statement about so called "Playmakers", or lack of talent. Guys I love this game. I played it until my injury and a serious heart condition (side note.... Pray for your brother. The news I received this week was not good. I played my high school and semi pro time with high blood pressure. when I made it to the league with Bills, things got rough and then when I went to the Panther my health started to decline more. Outwardly it looks like I can still play but the specialist just informed me that I have 5 years left with his old ticker. So I am going to do all I can to pour whatever passion I have into educating young men in this sport I love). Now don't hold back on your boy if you don't agree with my opinion. Let me have it!!!!! lol. that being said guys lack of talent is not the issue here it is a lack of development. We are so caught up in the star rating system. We have not gotten this player or we need a break out player on offense. Guys the talent is there. The players just don't fit the current system. Let me explain. Vad is NOT an option QB. Place him in the Diamond, spread, or a shot gun formation and you may see a change. The short pass was there all night against Clemson. Godhigh was a recipient of a couple. Many has asked for JT. He is an pure athlete. I think he can really play but JT has been put in games when either the OL has been worn down, they are backed up deep on their end of the field or he is in a situation were they are in a far behind and need big plays to make a comeback. Bottom line, they are young and need coaching. If we are going to stick to our current game plan then we are in trouble for the next couple of years. PJ has to plan for a game and stop being so stubborn and open up to input on how to incorporate his plan with other options. If you don't have the talent to execute what you would like then you as a coach need to make an adjustment. Just ask Will Muschamp. 2012 He had the # 3 recruiting class and 2013 the #4 class but this year they will not see a bowl game. Is it lack of talent or lack of development? Let's take Wisconsin since we complain about 3 star athletes. Look at the info below:


2012 QB Bart Houston 3 star
not on depth chart
Joel Stave 2 star (starter)

2012 Vince Biegel 4 star (2nd on depth chart)
Playing behind Brendan Kelly 3 star
and Ethan Armstrong 2 star

2012 Vonte Jackson 4 star ( He is not on depth chart)
James White 3 star
Melvin Gordon 4 star

2012 Dan Voltz 4 star (not on depth chart) playing behind
Ryan Groy 3 star
Ray Ball 3 star
Kyle Constigan 2 star
Zac Mattias 3 star

As you can see, the four star players are not the ones contributing or dominating the game. There are fewer 4 star recruits that join a team and make an immediate impact. than we think. What benefits them is player development. Let's look at the UCF team.

2012
(13) - 3 Stars
(4) - 2 stars
1 player not ranked

2013
(11)- 3 Stars
(8)- 2 Stars

Ranked 17 Key Wins (Penn State, Louisville,) Lost to South Carolina by 3

Now let's look at the DB's. None of them have shown improvement. Jamea is playing all out because of his previous experience. DJ White is a great athlete and has a very high football IQ but was placed in a few tough situations during the Clemson game. The lack of development of the corners has caused major problems. Come on guys you have the corners playing out of place, during short yardage situations you have them either bailing out or playing 10-12 yards deep. A receiver just needs to make a quick slant off the line and most of the time it is a completion. When a corner is slower than a receiver you provide him with deep assistance from a safety. Watch the game again and each time the safety is seen running over to assist but each time he is late. Why?

I like speed but he is not the guy to coach the DB's. The play of these guys should increase. They are not. Some have argued I was wrong during the earlier part of the season and I respect that but let's put personal feelings aside and look completely at FOOTBALL! I was at the facility one evening to talk to a young man and his parents who was considering accepting an offer from GT. I slid over to the practice field and saw Griffin and Speed working a little extra after practice. Speed was teaching Griffin a technique cover a receiver. The technique was awful. Griffin or any corner would get burned. Here is what he was teaching him. As the receiver is running towards you back pedal and when he cuts off his route jump back (yeah jump back) with your legs spread apart then run towards the receiver to cut off the pass. Griffin looked ridiculous. I thought what in the world is he doing. After a game I saw Griffin and DJ Whites dads. They were waiting for their sons to exit the stadium. Griffin came out and his dad greeted him and said how does it feel? You first game in at corner. He said it was good. I got 4 plays and was hoping for more but this is just the start. I heard Mr. Griffin ask his son "I saw Coach Speed talking to you before you went in the game, what did he say?" Mr. Griffins son responded, he told me they were trying to pitch a shut out. That's it. Mr. Griffin had a weird look on his face. I walked away thinking dang what a way to coach. Speed is a better linebacker coach but you know with Roof coming in, he was not going to coach the LB's or safety's so what was left. The corners. Also notice that Speed was taken out of the box.

QB development. If Coach J will open up the offense to incorporate more plays that could be executed out of spread option, or maybe some different formations, which I think he has the knowledge to do so, you will see that the offense will be more effective because defenses would be less aggressive to stop the option and have to adjust for the other setups that the offense will show.

Special Teams play has not been great. Guys here is what you need to watch. On multiple occasions this year I have seen the kick go in one direction and the players run to another spot. I think this is an easy fix. Kicker just needs more experience . Better communication is really necessary here. Also the players need to become head hunters. When I was with Buffalo we called these guys special for a reason. As far as returns. It has been decent until the Clemson game. I think the guys just had a bad game. Our special teams are young guys who will get better. Alabama averages 25.6 yards a return, Florida State averages 24.8 and GT averages 21.5 per game.

Offensive line - I hear everyone talking about removing Sewak. I am not getting into that debate but what I am going to point out is this. Have you noticed that opposing D linemen are making the adjustment for the cut block. They are either going high like VT , using their hands and side stepping the block or pushing our young men to the turf with a stiff arm. Teams are getting better each year. Either we work more on the cut block or we make some adjustments with the blocking scheme.

ERIC forgive me brother not trying to seem like a know it all. YOU ARE THE MAN! and I have respect for your craft. Just sharing my thoughts.
Thanks for the input. I hate to here the news about your health. I may get on here occasionally and ruffle feathers, but in all seriousness I pray that God will grant mercy on you. The only thing that really matters in this life is our personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I hope you know him as your personal savior. Not only you, but all those that read this.
 

Leonard Larramore

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
213
Great posts, Leo. I will pray that you have the strength to deal with the hand you've been given.
Thanks to you all. Each day I get with a mission to impact the life of a kid who plays this game. Several of my frienwds who were in the league provide a brother great support. Now that support has grown to include my GT Swarm family. I was drawn to GT because of the play of Lynn Griffin. Fell in love with the kid. Let you guys in on a secret, last year I had a heart attack and collapsed in a store. It was Lynn's dad who performed a procedure to jump start my heart. Please don't approach him because he hates when I bring it up. Again thanks fellas. Now let's light a fire under these young men. I need to see a ACC champion soon. Gooooooooooo Jackets!!!!
 

Leonard Larramore

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
213
Thanks for the input. I hate to here the news about your health. I may get on here occasionally and ruffle feathers, but in all seriousness I pray that God will grant mercy on you. The only thing that really matters in this life is our personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I hope you know him as your personal savior. Not only you, but all those that read this.
Goatman. I do brother. I have bee licensed preach for 15 years. I know that for everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under the heavens. Keep ruffling feathers. Keeps things exciting.
 

Boomergump

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This has been an outstanding thread to read. I hope it is indicative of the typical quality one finds here. I have a few comments although I haven't bothered to reply directly to any individual.

First of all. I am not as down on the OL as many around here. I don't think they have been dominant this season, but rather pretty good, when they are not false starting all over the field. There are some things you need to consider when forming your opinion about their play. The first is the wideness of their splits. To run this offense, splits are a necessity to create the gaps for the dive and spread the defense out to gain numbers advantages. Now, knowing that, count heads along the LOS and see what the defense is doing in terms of numbers. Quite often, they will have as many as 6 peeking into the backfield. Our standard alignment has 5 guys up front. With 5 guys up front and wide splits to boot, exactly what do you expect our guys to be able to get done? The biggest problem we have had along the line has been the inability to make teams pay for playing this way by consistently finding the check downs etc in the passing game and blocking better on the edge for the toss sweeps. Yes, we CAN block better too, but there is only so much you can ask 5 guys standing that far from each other to do. In addition to that, some teams we have played this year have done a way better job of timing our snap counts and slanting quickly to avoid our cuts on the backside. That is NOT the OL's fault. They can't leave early or it is a false start. Defenders are allowed to shift and move early as long as they don't get into the neutral zone. We simply must do a better job with varied counts to neutralize this problem. Our guys have missed some assignments this year. It is no secret. However, when watching a game, or film for that matter, an OL can look like he missed one when he has really done his assignment correctly. Our guys are frequently asked to let a pitch key go by while targeting a player at the second level. This is by design, as that player is being optioned off. Many times, a playside AB missing his block makes an OL look at fault because instead of having a single pitch key, the QB is now staring at 2 guys and he gets swallowed up by a guy that the OL just intentionally let go.

If you noticed, in the Climpsum game, as soon as we hit a few of those wheel passes into the flat, the run dynamic started to change. However, that pass was there all day and we simply didn't do a good enough job of seeing it or hitting it. We overthrew a couple and didn't even see a couple that were all alone. It boggles the mind how many yards and points were left on the table in this regard. For those of you who think we need to pass more or go to a different style offense such as shot gun etc, I caution you to be careful what you wish for. If we can't hit the wide open throws that are staring us in the face in this offense, what makes you think the light will suddenly come on passing 50% of the time? Surely we will improve at it, but look down the roster. Who is going to be running these routes for us when safeties are no longer lined up only 7 yards deep crashing in run support and the LBs are now rolling into the flats? Sure the narrower splits may buy us a little time in the pocket, but we don't have the WR crew to get it done in a conventional way right now. If we run that offense, teams aren't going to play against us the same way they are now. What we need to do is continue running OUR OFFENSE and simply get better at finding and hitting the wide open guys that we get in play action routinely. Teams are daring us to beat them that way. We just haven't been able to do it. We are able to hurt them a little now and then, but we aren't able to beat them. It is too bad that we screwed the pooch on that first KO, because I would loved to have seen some throws off play action early against the tiggers. It may have changed some things dramatically.

I am not sure Vad would be any better in the diamond. Right now he is pretty tentative and not making good decisions out of any formation. He has been very skittish in the pocket and is not seeing the field. Defenses are bringing the kind of pressure they are, knowing this very fact. His mental process is slow right now and they are speeding him up by crashing the line. Wouldn't you? CPJ is right, the edge wasn't as clean as you would like it much of the time against Clemson, but you know what, there were yards to get with a decisive cut upfield off the DE by Vad repeatedly that he didn't take, choosing instead to string plays out into oblivion on an overpopulated edge. Sure he may have gotten only 3 or 4 yards had he done that, but those yards were there none the less. 3 is a whole lot better than -3. He needs to get better at that. I guarantee you Ricky Dobbs gets a whole lot more yards with his feet Thursday than Vad did. Nesbitt was good at diving forward for 3 when the picture was bad. Right now Vad doesn't see some of the traps he is running into.
 

kg01

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Really appreciate the insights Boomer. I've been highly critical of the OL so it's great to hear it broken down.
 

ToddM

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Welcome Gump,

You are correct on every point you make but I am just not down on the WRs like a lot are. I think Summers and Smelter could run circles around some of these defenses. I think, with respect to the passing game, Vad misses or doesn't see open people because he is still digesting how to read the defensive line and his pitch. In doing that he cannot look downfield at the WRs. In my view if he had the chance to just make pass reads he would learn where his WRs are. Let me say it this way, if CPJ calls an option but tells. Vad to focus on the pass rather than the pitch Vad will see where his WRs are and where they will be when he runs the next true option reads. Done enough, Vad would know that if he is rounding end and the corner is standing there Summers is wide open dragging 15 yards downfield. Right now I dont think he knows that because he is trying to read his pitch. He is oblivious to where the back side WR may be.

I may be being to simplistic with this but could you imagine what Vad would be if he took off around the end stopped and hit the backside WR in the middle of the field . It's a lot I know but you hit two passes a game like that and the defense wouldn't have a clue how to play it.
 
Last edited:

Boomergump

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Welcome Gump,

You are correct on every point you make but I am just not down on the WRs like a lot are. I think Summers and Smelter could run circles around some of these defenses. I think, with respect to the passing game, Vad misses or doesn't see open people because he is still digesting how to read the defensive line and his pitch. In doing that he cannot look downfield at the WRs. In my view if he had the chance to just make pass reads he would learn where his WRs are. Let me say it this way, if CPJ calls an option but tells. Vad to focus on the pass rather than the pitch Vad will see where his WRs are and where they will be when he runs the next true option reads. Done enough, Vad would know that if he is rounding end and the corner is standing there Summers is wide open dragging 15 yards downfield. Right now I dont think he knows that because he is trying to read his pitch. He is oblivious to where the back side WR may be.

I may be being to simplistic with this but could you imagine what Vad would be if he took off around the end stopped and hit the backside WR in the middle of the field . It's a lot I know but you hit two passes a game like that and the defense wouldn't have a clue how to play it.

Todd, I hear what you are saying man, but what you are describing just isn't possible. If we are running an option play, there isn't going to be any pass down field. On our run plays we have half our OL firing to the second level level trying to get blocks out there. That would be a penalty for illegal receiver down field. We pass out of play action, on plays where we try and make it look like run. But, if we call an option play, somebody is going to be running the football. We just won't know who until the reads are made.

As far as our WRs are concerned, I think the world of Smelter. He is a PLAYA, but he isn't really ready to run a bunch of different routes against double coverage etc. He is a great athlete right now who has helped us, but not a polished receiver yet. Summers is inexperienced too. Waller is slow and lacks the toughness and body control to win contested balls like Clemson did the other night. Trust me, we are not ready to go 5 wide and start chucking it like Spurrier did in his Gator days.

Thanks for the welcome, I am looking forward to it.
 

ToddM

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Yeah you are right. I did a poor job of saying what I had in my minds eye. I was trying to describe what would be almost a roll out type play for him to read as he is on the run. I would imagine if any Tech QB starts a role out type run from under center the defense will read option because it's what we do.

Trust me this always worked on Playstation (y)

I guess I am just trying to say that there are things that can be done to teach Vad his options, no pun intended.

I do think he is overburdened right now focusing on the true option to think about receivers or progressions that's why we see him not even seeing or missing open WRs.
 
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