Concerns

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,981
When we beat CU in 2011, a lot of their D were freshmen and sophomores. Last night they were juniors and seniors. They're #23 in scoring D at 21.6 points/game. As I posted in another thread, the 17 we scored in the first 35 min was more than any other team had scored in a game except Georgie, FSU, and MD (who had only scored 13 in the first 54 min when they were down by 3 scores). We didn't do as well as expected, but we didn't do as bad some here seem to suggest.

When you look at what Georgie and FSU have in common with CU, the one thing that should jump out at you is talent. Those teams have been grabbing top 5 and top 10 recruiting classes for the last several years. So, when you compare our results to the talent differential, I think that we're still doing pretty well as far as our offense is concerned. With our current talent level, we need near pefect execution against a top 15 D like CU, and we didn't get it.

They exploited our secondary. We weren't good enough up front to get pressure every play, and when we didn't Boyd and his receivers were too good. However, I really think that we would've been in it a bit more if we had IJ, FH, and JG, and if White and Milton had had more experience.

We got whooped by a team that's more legitimately top 10 than I thought, but I don't think the wheels are off the bus.
 

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
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12,734
When we beat CU in 2011, a lot of their D were freshmen and sophomores. Last night they were juniors and seniors. They're #23 in scoring D at 21.6 points/game. As I posted in another thread, the 17 we scored in the first 35 min was more than any other team had scored in a game except Georgie, FSU, and MD (who had only scored 13 in the first 54 min when they were down by 3 scores). We didn't do as well as expected, but we didn't do as bad some here seem to suggest.

When you look at what Georgie and FSU have in common with CU, the one thing that should jump out at you is talent. Those teams have been grabbing top 5 and top 10 recruiting classes for the last several years. So, when you compare our results to the talent differential, I think that we're still doing pretty well as far as our offense is concerned. With our current talent level, we need near pefect execution against a top 15 D like CU, and we didn't get it.

They exploited our secondary. We weren't good enough up front to get pressure every play, and when we didn't Boyd and his receivers were too good. However, I really think that we would've been in it a bit more if we had IJ, FH, and JG, and if White and Milton had had more experience.

We got whooped by a team that's more legitimately top 10 than I thought, but I don't think the wheels are off the bus.

You talking about the Clemson starters on defense in 2011? If so that was a older group.
 

Pj4prez01

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
341
I like roof but I did not like how Jamea was used last night. Would have liked to see him in coverage more as a corner or safety over the top
 

CuseJacket

Administrator
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15,457
- Talent level. I think watching the game last night the first thing that just could not be ignored is the talent gap between the two teams. I asked myself what guys on this team would start for Clemson....about all I could come up with is Attaochu and Thomas. CPJ talked about improving the depth when he got here...and I agree with him that he has done that. But our top end talent is wayyyy worse. We simply lack playmakers. Guys that make things happen when you need it, guys that can make a play. Tajh Boyd ate us alive last night...Simply seeing one on one and tossing it up. Majority of the time his playmakers did just that and made plays. Give credit to Boyd for some great throws but the WR's played great as well.

- Offense. It isn't just one position or player on offense, it is the whole thing. The OL is really sad to watch. Majority of the time we have 2 to 3 guys who do not even touch a player. They simply dive straight forward and hit the turf. At QB we have no decision making and you can just feel no confidence. Vad hesitates way too much and what worries me is that is isn't getting better from week to week. It is actually staying the same or even getting worse.

- Coaching. We have some coaches on the staff that CPJ really has to look at. I honestly had no idea how big of a loss Todd Monken was at the time....Then CPJ adds someone like Lamar Owens. I like Lamar, and really think he is starting to figure things out on the recruiting trail but in the coaching department I feel we made a huge downgrade. Mike Sewak...Really how is he still here? Not going to say much else on that subject. Dave Walkosky is really not a good special teams coach...we always are making boneheaded plays on special teams. How many times is it going to take to learn to not bring the ball out everytime if you are getting stuffed at the 10 or so yard line.

- Paul Johnson. This to me just does not feel or act like the same Paul Johnson we seen when he first came here. It is like he is a different person now...I really hope we can get the offense back to the 08 and 09 level.

Hope we can add more talent in this recruiting class and Paul Johnson gets this thing turned around...I know the defense did not play well last night but Ted Roof has really been a good hire so far.

I agree with all of this except, again, the hate on Special Teams. I've thought all year we've been leaps and bounds better in all phases of special teams minus yesterday. The rugby style punts and punt fakes with Poole this year have been awesome. Punt coverage has been a great success. FG kicking is no longer a nightmare. Kickoff coverage is no longer a and we haven't turned guys loose with any regularity. Punt returns are status quo without Golden back there, nothing great but nothing terrible.

Based on yesterday's performance alone I'd say there's room for improvement in kickoff returns, but frankly I'm not sure it's been awful in the other games. How much of the issues have to do with missing Golden... I'd say quite a bit. But I'm not on the fire CDW bandwagon that I was close to joining last year.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,981
You talking about the Clemson starters on defense in 2011? If so that was a older group.

Thanks.

I was thinking about the Depth Chart. I could've remembered incorrectly. I remembered one year where they had talked about having a lot of freshmen, and I thought I heard one of the announcers talk about youth of that team, but I could easily have been wrong. I didn't double check.

That being said, it wasn't the main point of my post.
 

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
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12,734
Thanks.

I was thinking about the Depth Chart. I could've remembered incorrectly. I remembered one year where they had talked about having a lot of freshmen, and I thought I heard one of the announcers talk about youth of that team, but I could easily have been wrong. I didn't double check.

That being said, it wasn't the main point of my post.

I remember that group well...I couldn't wait for Thompson to leave because I thought we would really dominate them up front then.
 

ToddM

Guest
Messages
220
Location
Locust Grove Ga
The o line is the biggest problem, however, the team just lacks the mental part. Football IQ is huge. IQ can make a slow player look fast. Knowing where to be in a given situation, angles etc... Recognition . I see older players out of sync a lot. I ain't sure this is coaching guys. Eric you said you saw players completely missing and hitting the ground on their blocks, they have been doing that all year. So the question I would have is this, after you whiff 3-4 times as a player and because of that your guy blows up the play, do you need the coach to tell you to stay up long enough to control your block ? Do you need to be told not to dive at the feet unless you are close enough to hit them ?

I don't think so and that is the football IQ I am talking about. If you are a lineman you should simply know to make sure you block your guy. Seems ours can't figure it out.
 

GTonTop88

Helluva Engineer
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Gibson, GA
Clemson woulda blew UGA last night too. They played better than they did against them, regardless of the talent difference. Bryant couldn't catch a cold against them and he looked like CJ last night. Then you had Watkins, and the other guy Williams I think. We did play bad, don't get me wrong. But Clemson woulda been a handful for anybody last night. Don't take it so hard guys. We got mutts to beat, THWG!
 

BainbridgeJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
804
We have had too much turnover on the offensive staff.
-QBs/BBs(2013) never worked with CPJ.
-ABs(2010) this is his first job period. He's done a good job improving the route running and pass catching. Blocking is worse. Game knowledge is improving, but Monken clearly was a more reliable set of eyes.
-OL (2008) this used to be a 2 man job. We kept the lesser man. Currently the most reliable set of eyes for in game adjustments.
-WR (2008) good at player development. I'm not going to say he doesn't know the offense, but he wasn't involved in previous stints at navy, etc. So I'm not sure coach has confidence in him for adjustments in scheme.
 
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Leonard Larramore

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
213
Larramore has been quite vocal on Speed and I don't think we've seen anything to cause us to disagree with his assessment. The DB's look confused too often. Sure they're backups but that's not an excuse at this point in the year. I can't comment on Young anymore. Too tired.
KG You are on it. I want to address something about the statement about so called "Playmakers", or lack of talent. Guys I love this game. I played it until my injury and a serious heart condition (side note.... Pray for your brother. The news I received this week was not good. I played my high school and semi pro time with high blood pressure. when I made it to the league with Bills, things got rough and then when I went to the Panther my health started to decline more. Outwardly it looks like I can still play but the specialist just informed me that I have 5 years left with his old ticker. So I am going to do all I can to pour whatever passion I have into educating young men in this sport I love). Now don't hold back on your boy if you don't agree with my opinion. Let me have it!!!!! lol. that being said guys lack of talent is not the issue here it is a lack of development. We are so caught up in the star rating system. We have not gotten this player or we need a break out player on offense. Guys the talent is there. The players just don't fit the current system. Let me explain. Vad is NOT an option QB. Place him in the Diamond, spread, or a shot gun formation and you may see a change. The short pass was there all night against Clemson. Godhigh was a recipient of a couple. Many has asked for JT. He is an pure athlete. I think he can really play but JT has been put in games when either the OL has been worn down, they are backed up deep on their end of the field or he is in a situation were they are in a far behind and need big plays to make a comeback. Bottom line, they are young and need coaching. If we are going to stick to our current game plan then we are in trouble for the next couple of years. PJ has to plan for a game and stop being so stubborn and open up to input on how to incorporate his plan with other options. If you don't have the talent to execute what you would like then you as a coach need to make an adjustment. Just ask Will Muschamp. 2012 He had the # 3 recruiting class and 2013 the #4 class but this year they will not see a bowl game. Is it lack of talent or lack of development? Let's take Wisconsin since we complain about 3 star athletes. Look at the info below:


2012 QB Bart Houston 3 star
not on depth chart
Joel Stave 2 star (starter)

2012 Vince Biegel 4 star (2nd on depth chart)
Playing behind Brendan Kelly 3 star
and Ethan Armstrong 2 star

2012 Vonte Jackson 4 star ( He is not on depth chart)
James White 3 star
Melvin Gordon 4 star

2012 Dan Voltz 4 star (not on depth chart) playing behind
Ryan Groy 3 star
Ray Ball 3 star
Kyle Constigan 2 star
Zac Mattias 3 star

As you can see, the four star players are not the ones contributing or dominating the game. There are fewer 4 star recruits that join a team and make an immediate impact. than we think. What benefits them is player development. Let's look at the UCF team.

2012
(13) - 3 Stars
(4) - 2 stars
1 player not ranked

2013
(11)- 3 Stars
(8)- 2 Stars

Ranked 17 Key Wins (Penn State, Louisville,) Lost to South Carolina by 3

Now let's look at the DB's. None of them have shown improvement. Jamea is playing all out because of his previous experience. DJ White is a great athlete and has a very high football IQ but was placed in a few tough situations during the Clemson game. The lack of development of the corners has caused major problems. Come on guys you have the corners playing out of place, during short yardage situations you have them either bailing out or playing 10-12 yards deep. A receiver just needs to make a quick slant off the line and most of the time it is a completion. When a corner is slower than a receiver you provide him with deep assistance from a safety. Watch the game again and each time the safety is seen running over to assist but each time he is late. Why?

I like speed but he is not the guy to coach the DB's. The play of these guys should increase. They are not. Some have argued I was wrong during the earlier part of the season and I respect that but let's put personal feelings aside and look completely at FOOTBALL! I was at the facility one evening to talk to a young man and his parents who was considering accepting an offer from GT. I slid over to the practice field and saw Griffin and Speed working a little extra after practice. Speed was teaching Griffin a technique cover a receiver. The technique was awful. Griffin or any corner would get burned. Here is what he was teaching him. As the receiver is running towards you back pedal and when he cuts off his route jump back (yeah jump back) with your legs spread apart then run towards the receiver to cut off the pass. Griffin looked ridiculous. I thought what in the world is he doing. After a game I saw Griffin and DJ Whites dads. They were waiting for their sons to exit the stadium. Griffin came out and his dad greeted him and said how does it feel? You first game in at corner. He said it was good. I got 4 plays and was hoping for more but this is just the start. I heard Mr. Griffin ask his son "I saw Coach Speed talking to you before you went in the game, what did he say?" Mr. Griffins son responded, he told me they were trying to pitch a shut out. That's it. Mr. Griffin had a weird look on his face. I walked away thinking dang what a way to coach. Speed is a better linebacker coach but you know with Roof coming in, he was not going to coach the LB's or safety's so what was left. The corners. Also notice that Speed was taken out of the box.

QB development. If Coach J will open up the offense to incorporate more plays that could be executed out of spread option, or maybe some different formations, which I think he has the knowledge to do so, you will see that the offense will be more effective because defenses would be less aggressive to stop the option and have to adjust for the other setups that the offense will show.

Special Teams play has not been great. Guys here is what you need to watch. On multiple occasions this year I have seen the kick go in one direction and the players run to another spot. I think this is an easy fix. Kicker just needs more experience . Better communication is really necessary here. Also the players need to become head hunters. When I was with Buffalo we called these guys special for a reason. As far as returns. It has been decent until the Clemson game. I think the guys just had a bad game. Our special teams are young guys who will get better. Alabama averages 25.6 yards a return, Florida State averages 24.8 and GT averages 21.5 per game.

Offensive line - I hear everyone talking about removing Sewak. I am not getting into that debate but what I am going to point out is this. Have you noticed that opposing D linemen are making the adjustment for the cut block. They are either going high like VT , using their hands and side stepping the block or pushing our young men to the turf with a stiff arm. Teams are getting better each year. Either we work more on the cut block or we make some adjustments with the blocking scheme.

ERIC forgive me brother not trying to seem like a know it all. YOU ARE THE MAN! and I have respect for your craft. Just sharing my thoughts.
 
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Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Staff member
Messages
12,734
KG You are on it. I want to address something about the statement about so called "Playmakers", or lack of talent. Guys I love this game. I played it until my injury and a serious heart condition (side note.... Pray for your brother. The news I received this week was not good. I played my high school and semi pro time with high blood pressure. when I made it to the league with Bills, things got rough and then when I went to the Panther my health started to decline more. Outwardly it looks like I can still play but the specialist just informed me that I have 5 years left with his old ticker. So I am going to do all I can to pour whatever passion I have into educating young men in this sport I love). Now don't hold back with your boy if you don't agree with my opinion. Let me have it!!!!! lol. that being said guys lack of talent is not the issue here it is a lack of development. We are so caught up in the star rating system. We have not gotten this player or we need a break out player on offense. Guys the talent is there. The players just don't fit the current system. Let me explain. Vad is NOT an option QB. Place him in the Diamond, spread, or a shot gun formation and you may see a change. The short pass was there all night against Clemson. Godhigh was a recipient of a couple. JT is an pure athlete. I think he can really play but JT has been put in games when either the OL has been worn down, they are backed up deep on their end of the field or he is in a situation were they are in a far behind and need big plays to make a comeback. Bottom line they are young and need coaching. If you are going to stick to the option. Then GT is in trouble for the next couple of years. PJ has to plan for a game and stop be so stubborn and open up to input on how to incorporate is plan with other options. If you don't have the talent to execute what you would like then you as a coach needs to make an adjustment. Just ask Will Muschamp. 2012 He has the # 3 recruiting class and 2013 the #4 Class but this year they will not see a bowl game. Is it lack of talent or lack of development. Let's take Wisconsin we complain about 3 star athletes. Look at the starters:


2012 QB Bart Houston 3 star
not on depth chart
Joel Stave 2 star (starter)

2012 Vince Biegel 4 star (2nd on depth chart)
Playing behind Brendan Kelly 3 star
and Ethan Armstrong 2 star

2012 Vonte Jackson 4 star ( He is not on depth chart)
James White 3 star
Melvin Gordon 4 star

2012 Dan Voltz 4 star (not on depth chart) playing behind
Ryan Groy 3 star
Ray Ball 3 star
Kyle Constigan 2 star
Zac Mattias 3 star

As you can see, the four star players are not the ones contributing are not the ones dominating the game. There are fewer 4 star recruits that join a team and make an immediate impact. What benefits them is player development. Let's take this years UCF team.

2012
(13) - 3 Stars
(4) - 2 stars
1 player not ranked

2013
(11)- 3 Stars
(8)- 2 Stars

Ranked 17 Key Wins (Penn State, Louisville,) Lost to South Carolina by 3

Now let's look at the DB's. None of them have shown improvement. Jamea is playing all out because of his previous experience. DJ White is a great athlete and has a very high football IQ but was placed in a few tough situations during the Clemson game. The lack of development of the corners has caused major problems. Come on guys you have the corners playing out of place, during short yardage situations you have them either bailing out or playing 10-12 yards deep. A receiver just needs to make a quick slant off the line and 9-10 it is a completion. When a corner is slower than a receiver you provide him with deep assistance from a safety. Watch the game again and each time the safety is seen running over to assist but each time he is late. Why?

I like speed but he is not the guy the guy to coach the DB's. The play of these guys should increase. They are not. Some have argued I was wrong during the earlier part of the season and I respect that but let's put personal feelings aside and look completely at FOOTBALL! I was at the facility one evening to talk to a young man and his parents who was considering accepting an offer from GT. I slid over to the practice field and saw Griffin and Speed working a little extra after practice. Speed was teaching Griffin a technique cover a receiver. The technique was awful. Griffin or any corner would get burned. Here is what he was teaching him. As the receiver is running towards you back pedal and when he cuts off his route jump back (yeah jump back) with your legs spread apart then run towards the receiver to cut off the pass. Griffin looked ridiculous. I thought what in the world is he doing. After the Elon game I saw Griffin and DJ Whites dads. They were waiting for their sons to exit the stadium. Griffin came out and his dad greeted him and said how does it feel? You first game in at corner. He said it was good. I got 4 plays and was hoping for more but this is just the start. I heard Mr. Griffin ask his son "I saw Coach Speed talking to you before you went in the game, what did he say?" Mr. Griffins son responded, he told me they were trying to pitch a shut out. That's it. Mr. Griffin had a weird look on his face. I walked away thinking dang what a way to coach. Speed is a better linebacker coach but you know with Roof coming in, he was not going to coach the LB's or safety's so what was left. The corners.

QB development. If Coach J will open up the offense to incorporate more plays that can be run out of spread option, or maybe some different formations, which I think he has the knowledge to do so, you will see that the offense will be more effective because defenses would be less aggressive to stop the option and have to adjust for the other setups that the offense will show.

Special Teams play has not been great. Guys here is what you need to watch. On multiple occasions this year I have seen the kick go in one direction and the players run to another spot. I think this is an easy fix. Kicker just needs more experience . Communication is a key hear as well. Also the players need to become head hunters. When I was with Buffalo we called these guys special for a reason. As far as returns. It has been decent until the Clemson game. I think the guys just had a bad game. Our special teams are young guys who will get better. Alabama averages 25.6 yards a return, Florida State averages 24.8 and GT averages 21.5 per game.

Offensive line - I hear everyone talking about removing Sewak. I am not getting into that debate what I am going to point out is this. Have you noticed that opposing D linemen are making the adjustment for the cut block. They are either going high like VT , using their hands and side stepping the block or pushing our young men to the turf with a stiff arm. Either we work more on the cut block or we make some adjustments with the blocking scheme.

ERIC forgive me brother not trying to seem like a know it all. YOU ARE THE MAN! and I have respect for your craft. Just sharing my thoughts.

No forgiving to be done.. my opinion is no greater than anybody else's. Especially someonene who has so much knowledge of the game like yourself.

Thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts...always look forward to reading them.

BTW I will keep you in my prayers.
 

CobbTech

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
286
The three things that bother me the most:

-OL play. Or I guess OL coaching. It gets really annoying watching our OL fall to the ground trying to cut guys and completely whiff. This also goes for the AB's. Godhigh's TD run, I didn't see one of our guys or their guys on the ground. It was just good blocking on the edge.

-Misses on the DL in recruiting: Chalk this up to bad luck or bad coaching. Whatever you think. But our DL play has been the reason we've been bad on D the last few years. Think about all of the 4 star guys and other guys on the DL we have recruited. McCoy, A. Williams, JC Lanier, Shawn Green. All 4 star guys. Then the million 3 star guys we've recruited. None have panned out.

-No adjustments on offense: I think everyone knows what I'm talking about. We've got a guy in Vad Lee who can sling it. Yet, we're trying to turn him into Tevin Washington. I understand playing within a system but he hasn't improved in the option game. Put your guys in the best position to win and we haven't done that. Either run the offense in a way that gives our QB a chance to succeed or put the other guy in.
 
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