Commits that signed elsewhere

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forensicbuzz

forensicbuzz

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A flip is very simple.

Question 1: Does a recruit have a committable offer, and has said recruit pledged his commitment to School A?

Question 2: Did said recruit decommit from School A and pledge his commitment to School B?

If the answer to Questions 1 and 2 are both YES, then the recruit flipped his commitment. The reason why the recruit flipped his commitment is irrelevent to the discussion. There could be a myriad of reasons "why" the kid flipped, but unless School A rescended the scholarship offer, when a kid decommits from one school and commits to another, that's a flip.
 
JohnnyMcKnight

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forensicbuzz said:
A flip is very simple.

Question 1: Does a recruit have a committable offer, and has said recruit pledged his commitment to School A?

Question 2: Did said recruit decommit from School A and pledge his commitment to School B?

If the answer to Questions 1 and 2 are both YES, then the recruit flipped his commitment. The reason why the recruit flipped his commitment is irrelevent to the discussion. There could be a myriad of reasons "why" the kid flipped, but unless School A rescended the scholarship offer, when a kid decommits from one school and commits to another, that's a flip.
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Coaching changes like at Miami with Menocal, or when a HC says you can't play QB at our school is the same as a rescinded scholly offer.

Miami's new HC told Menocal he was a TE as long as he was the HC, the same way that Saban told JT you're not a QB as long as I'm the HC, in both of those cases even though there is no official rescinding of the scholly, a logical person can see that those schollys were no longer on the table, and because of that GT was able to sign those players.
 
GaTech4ever

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Is the point of this to determine what a "flip" is, or to debate whether or not JT could have played QB at Bama? JT has Bama talent/athleticism, but I'm not sure anyone can reasonably say he would have actually taken in-game QB snaps there, regardless of what he was offered as. That isn't to say he was not a flip. But if JT thought he could have started at QB at Alabama, I think he would have given it a shot. Could be wrong but that's just my opinion. Doesn't make his "flip" any less valuable to me.
 
forensicbuzz

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JohnnyMcKnight said:
Coaching changes like at Miami with Menocal, or when a HC says you can't play QB at our school is the same as a rescinded scholly offer.

Miami's new HC told Menocal he was a TE as long as he was the HC, the same way that Saban told JT you're not a QB as long as I'm the HC, in both of those cases even though there is no official rescinding of the scholly, a logical person can see that those schollys were no longer on the table, and because of that GT was able to sign those players.
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Two things: unless you have first hand knowledge of JT's conversation with Saban, don't spout opinion as fact. Both JT and Menocal were flips. They both were committed to a school that would have accepted their LOI on Signing Day and then changed their commitment to another school, period. The reason doesn't matter.

As a side note, if you want to have an open dialogue about GT sports and recruiting, this is the place to be. However, if you continue to state opinions as facts without substantiation, you'll find you'll not fare well on this board.

I may disagree with your opinion or the interpretation of the supporting evidence for your opinion. We're all good with that (well, most of us anyway). But you'll find quickly there's not a great tolerance for non-supported opinion, unless it's given as an emotional response.
 
dressedcheeseside

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JohnnyMcKnight said:
Coaching changes like at Miami with Menocal, or when a HC says you can't play QB at our school is the same as a rescinded scholly offer.

Miami's new HC told Menocal he was a TE as long as he was the HC, the same way that Saban told JT you're not a QB as long as I'm the HC, in both of those cases even though there is no official rescinding of the scholly, a logical person can see that those schollys were no longer on the table, and because of that GT was able to sign those players.
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You're missing the point. The main point is that these guys were good enough to get offers from factories in the first place. Saying it's not a "flip" is splitting hairs and pointless.
 
JohnnyMcKnight

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dressedcheeseside said:
You're missing the point. The main point is that these guys were good enough to get offers from factories in the first place. Saying it's not a "flip" is splitting hairs and pointless.
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A reasonable college fan would define a flip as a recruit switching schools with all things being equal.

Menocal was clear that he wanted to play LB or on Defense in college, Al Golden saw Menocal as a TE, so he went looking for a new school and found GT.

JT was clear that he wanted to play QB, Saban saw him as a DB/KR/Slot-WR, so he went looking for another school and found
GT.

A real flip is Crawford that was a CB and both schools wanted him as a CB, and then he chose Miami, in that case that qualifies under the "all things being equal doctrine".

If a player is dead set on initially playing a position and other coaches don't see that player at that position, then all things aren't equal.
 
JohnnyMcKnight

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forensicbuzz said:
Two things: unless you have first hand knowledge of JT's conversation with Saban, don't spout opinion as fact. Both JT and Menocal were flips. They both were committed to a school that would have accepted their LOI on Signing Day and then changed their commitment to another school, period. The reason doesn't matter.
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What you wrote above just isn't true.

Al Golden wanted Menocal as long as he wanted to play TE, only then would he have accepted his LOI.

Saban would have accepted JT's LOI as a DB/WR/KR, Saban was not going to accept JT's LOI as a QB.

Why do you guys feel the need to re-write history?
 
ATL1

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JohnnyMcKnight said:
What you wrote above just isn't true.

Al Golden wanted Menocal as long as he wanted to play TE, only then would he have accepted his LOI.

Saban would have accepted JT's LOI as a DB/WR/KR, Saban was not going to accept JT's LOI as a QB.

Why do you guys feel the need to re-write history?
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1. Why are you arguing this point?
2. Why are you the ONLY one arguing this point?
Even calling the father of a current player and the guy who runs and started this site a liar.
3. Why are you the only person apparently privy to this information that your can't prove or verify,"Saban would have accepted JT's LOI as a DB/WR/KR, Saban was not going to accept JT's LOI as a QB."??
What's your angle here?
 
DCSS

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Do college coaches make a habit of refusing LOI's from student athletes that have verbally committed to them? Maybe it happens more often than I think.
 
GTJason

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You don't sign an LOI to a position, it's to a school. You are at the mercy of the coach once on scholarship. You get a player and put him where you think he'll fit. Menocal could have signed with Miami and they would have accepted his LOI. Then when practice came around he would have been placed as a tight end... You are simply making up how this process works. It was up to Menocal to find that out before signing the letter if he wanted to play defense. I agree with @Blumpkin Souffle , this is just insane
 
forensicbuzz

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When I applied to Georgia Tech in 1986, I wanted to study Aerospace Engineering. My uncle had a neighbor/friend who was a NE professor, and he called Admissions and inquired about the requirements for different schools. He was told that there were limited out-of-state spots in AE and that it would be harder to get in, but that my chances of being admitted by Georgia Tech would be higher if I applied as a Chemical Engineering major. I did, and I got in. Eventually, I switched to Materials Engineering, and the rest is history.

The point of my story is that, as GTJason said, the LOI is signed to a school, not a position. This is my opinion based on what I have inferred from the various pieces of information provided in the medial.

From what I remember reading, JT wanted a chance to play QB, not that he was QB-only, but that he was QB-first. Originally, Saban told JT he'd get a shot at QB and JT committed. As the recruiting season matured, JT and his family had more contact with the Alabama coaching staff, watched the the Alabama class develop, and heard from other coaches/advisors/friends/etc. At some point, the JT and his family his chances of playing QB at Alabama weren't high enough for his comfort and he chose to go in a different direction. This is all supposition because I wasn't involved with the recruiting decisions made by the Alabama coaching staff and the Thomas family. I believe Saban never promised him QB, but a "chance at QB" and ultimately JT wanted a higher odds.

If you want to narrowly define a flip as "only when everything between the two schools is exactly equal," then I'd say there are very few flips. Nick Marshall was supposedly a silent verbal to GT at QB and then went to UGA as a DB. I guess by that definition, he wouldn't be characterized as a flip. You're entitled to your definition, but you're close to being in the minority of 1 with that meaning of "flip". If you're sole point was to troll, then congratulations, you've succeeded. Regardless, I'm through commenting on flips.
 
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