College football is a mess

[Root4GT]

When did you graduate?

If that was intended for me - 1973. When did you graduate?

 

[Vespidae]

If that was intended for me - 1973. When did you graduate?

82. Similar era. Ok.

 

[MWBATL]

If that was intended for me - 1973. When did you graduate?

Hey, me too!

 

[stinger78]

I’m curious. Exactly how much annually did GT receive joining the ACC?

The rest of your post is conjecture.

I love it when folks read today’s understanding back into decisions 60 years ago.

First, Dodd did not want to go independent, though he was willing to do so. He wanted to stay in the SEC with the scholarship rule changed.

Second, I don’t think conferences were primarily for money. I believe they were for scheduling games vs. opponents of interest and for offering a competitive alliance.

 

[Root4GT]

I love it when folks read today’s understanding back into decisions 60 years ago.

First, Dodd did not want to go independent, though he was willing to do so. He wanted to stay in the SEC with the scholarship rule changed.

Second, I don’t think conferences were primarily for money. I believe they were for scheduling games vs. opponents of interest and for offering a competitive alliance.

Money has always been critical in college athletics. The amount has dramatically changed the past 20+ years but schools always needed money for scholarships and facilities. Tech needed the ACC to survive as a serious college athletic program. GT had the worst facilities in the ACC less Duke’s football stadium in 1979

 

[Vespidae]

I love it when folks read today’s understanding back into decisions 60 years ago.

First, Dodd did not want to go independent, though he was willing to do so. He wanted to stay in the SEC with the scholarship rule changed.

Second, I don’t think conferences were primarily for money. I believe they were for scheduling games vs. opponents of interest and for offering a competitive alliance.

100%.

 

[stinger78]

Money has always been critical in college athletics. The amount has dramatically changed the past 20+ years but schools always needed money for scholarships and facilities. Tech needed the ACC to survive as a serious college athletic program. GT had the worst facilities in the ACC less Duke’s football stadium in 1979

TBH, that’s like emphatically stating water is wet.

Of course, money is important in any endeavor that carries significant expense. That doesn’t mean it’s the primary driver. CFB, back then, was seen for what it was, a non-profit. It just had to break even to be sustainable. No stock holders to drive the bottom line. The numbers had to line up, but the purpose of CFB was something different and more altruistic. When your HBC never even has a contract in 22 years tenure you know you’re on different ground.

 

[Vespidae]

Money has always been critical in college athletics. The amount has dramatically changed the past 20+ years but schools always needed money for scholarships and facilities. Tech needed the ACC to survive as a serious college athletic program. GT had the worst facilities in the ACC less Duke’s football stadium in 1979

I suppose you can argue it was money. I recall that Tech PAID to join the ACC because many of its contracts with historical SEC teams were ending and they were struggling to remain scheduled with almost anyone. The ACC gave them two things ... immediate access to the basketball tourney and longer-term, access to a reasonable and reliable schedule.

So Tech got a small percentage of the gate at other schools as soon as they were scheduled. I see it more as a "we need a stable schedule" and perhaps others see it as a money lifeline. Potato-Potatoh.

The ACC did nothing for Tech facilities. That was 100% on Homer Rice.

 

[Root4GT]

TBH, that’s like emphatically stating water is wet.

Of course, money is important in any endeavor that carries significant expense. That doesn’t mean it’s the primary driver. CFB, back then, was seen for what it was, a non-profit. It just had to break even to be sustainable. No stock holders to drive the bottom line. The numbers had to line up, but the purpose of CFB was something different and more altruistic. When your HBC never even has a contract in 22 years tenure you know you’re on different ground.

That’s a bit naive. There were lots of issues back then. Most were not well publicized but money was at their core. Boosters mattered. Stadium size mattered. It is more acute now but it’s just a matter of degree.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

That’s a bit naive. There were lots of issues back then. Most were not well publicized but money was at their core. Boosters mattered. Stadium size mattered. It is more acute now but it’s just a matter of degree.

Frankly, I’m a little mystified as to where you’re getting your information. Dodd was mainly concerned with the way Alabama was stock piling athletes and then discarding them. Dodd actually had a heart for kids who would be left without an education because Bama would decide at the last minute to revoke scholarships after all the other options were closed out for a recruit.

Sure, there was more to it than that but Dodd recognized the problem was not Bear Bryant so much as it was a system that could be exploited and athletes who were victimized by that system. He sought reform. Others sought an opportunity to call his bluff and get him out of the SEC. As soon as they got Dodd out of the conference the SEC started putting in reforms.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. It was a principled move at the time as well as a calculated gamble based on Tech having an exalted position with southern media and an historic relationship with a dynamic and growing city. Things changed quickly in an unforeseen way and the rest is history.

 

[ThatGuy]

I love it when folks read today’s understanding back into decisions 60 years ago.

First, Dodd did not want to go independent, though he was willing to do so. He wanted to stay in the SEC with the scholarship rule changed.

Second, I don’t think conferences were primarily for money. I believe they were for scheduling games vs. opponents of interest and for offering a competitive alliance.

Money has always been critical in college athletics. The amount has dramatically changed the past 20+ years but schools always needed money for scholarships and facilities. Tech needed the ACC to survive as a serious college athletic program. GT had the worst facilities in the ACC less Duke’s football stadium in 1979

Sure, money has always been important. But in relation to the comment you're responding to, conferences were not for money when Tech joined the ACC. They were about scheduling at that time, and that's it (since the original other purpose of conferences - that of having common rules and regulations - was taken over by the NCAA).

It wasn't until the uGA/Oklahoma lawsuit versus the NCAA in 1984 that conferences gained the ability to negotiate for their own individual media rights. That's when money crept into the conference equation (although it really

Point being, money wasn't a direct benefit of Tech joining the ACC. Scheduling was, as their schedules with longtime SEC opponents had ended, and Tech needed teams to play to continue its athletic program. Money was also needed, but no substantial amount of money was paid by the ACC, nor the SEC, at that time.

 

[Root4GT]

Frankly, I’m a little mystified as to where you’re getting your information. Dodd was mainly concerned with the way Alabama was stock piling athletes and then discarding them. Dodd actually had a heart for kids who would be left without an education because Bama would decide at the last minute to revoke scholarships after all the other options were closed out for a recruit.

Sure, there was more to it than that but Dodd recognized the problem was not Bear Bryant so much as it was a system that could be exploited and athletes who were victimized by that system. He sought reform. Others sought an opportunity to call his bluff and get him out of the SEC. As soon as they got Dodd out of the conference the SEC started putting in reforms.

Hindsight is 20/20 as they say. It was a principled move at the time as well as a calculated gamble based on Tech having an exalted position with southern media and an historic relationship with a dynamic and growing city. Things changed quickly in an unforeseen way and the rest is history.

Show me what I said about GT leaving the SEC. Oh right that would be nothing. That had zero to do with my comment that GT joined the ACC for money in 1979. Are you saying GT joining the ACC in 1979 wasn't in large part about money? Could GT have survived as a functioning Division 1 athletic program had it not joined the ACC?

Leaving the SEC and many years later joining the ACC are two distinct issues. Go back and see what I wrote in this thread.

 

[stinger78]

The issue here is the false equivalence between the financial situation in the 1970’s requiring a steadying cashflow that a conference would provide, and the absurd money chase that is college athletics today.

 

[Root4GT]

The issue here is the false equivalence between the financial situation in the 1970’s requiring a steadying cashflow that a conference would provide, and the absurd money chase that is college athletics today.

That’s your opinion.

On the other hand had GT not joined the ACC GT likely would no longer be playing FBS football or frankly Division 1 in any sport. There were enough folks in power who would have been happy to drop competitive athletics.

This board has discussed how schools not in the SEC or B1G will no longer compete in football and there will be a secondary impact on all sports.

The dollar amount is different. The reason and impact are more similar than dissimilar.

That’s my opinion.

 

[stinger78]

That’s your opinion.

On the other hand had GT not joined the ACC GT likely would no longer be playing FBS football or frankly Division 1 in any sport. There were enough folks in power who would have been happy to drop competitive athletics.

This board has discussed how schools not in the SEC or B1G will no longer compete in football and there will be a secondary impact on all sports.

The dollar amount is different. The reason and impact are more similar than dissimilar.

That’s my opinion.

You’re welcome to your opinion. The moral equivalence of the money in CFB in 1979 and the ludicrous amounts in 2020’s, 40+ years later, is comical… IMPO.

 

[Root4GT]

You’re welcome to your opinion. The moral equivalence of the money in CFB in 1979 and the ludicrous amounts in 2020’s, 40+ years later, is comical… IMPO.

The amount of money is not relevant. The reasoning is the same in 1979 and 2023. Why did UCF, BYU, Cincinnati and Houston join the Big 12? Money to survive as a serious college athletic program. G5 programs struggle for unless you are SMU.

Yes the dollar amount in 2023 is astronomical, that isn't at issue. That joining a Conference was necessary to survive in 1979 was needed to monetarily survive of GT. Oregon and Washington State are facing similar issues now that the Pac 12 no longer exists and they were left in the cold by all P4 conferences. They need a Conference and the money that comes with that to survive.

 

[stinger78]

The amount of money is not relevant. The reasoning is the same in 1979 and 2023. Why did UCF, BYU, Cincinnati and Houston join the Big 12? Money to survive as a serious college athletic program. G5 programs struggle for unless you are SMU.

Yes the dollar amount in 2023 is astronomical, that isn't at issue. That joining a Conference was necessary to survive in 1979 was needed to monetarily survive of GT. Oregon and Washington State are facing similar issues now that the Pac 12 no longer exists and they were left in the cold by all P4 conferences. They need a Conference and the money that comes with that to survive.

Baloney.

Your typical non-profit has to at least break even, if not make a small bottom line. Money is important, since you have to pay the bills, but it’s not about the money. The infusion of huge TV $$$ has changed the calculus of the CFB AA. It’s now a large part about the money.

 

[billga99]

Baloney.

Your typical non-profit has to at least break even, if not make a small bottom line. Money is important, since you have to pay the bills, but it’s not about the money. The infusion of huge TV $$$ has changed the calculus of the CFB AA. It’s now a large part about the money.

Money plays a big factor in how much you can pay coaches, have more scouts, improve facilities, etc. It is no coincidence that the top programs year after year usually have the most money.

 

[Root4GT]

Money plays a big factor in how much you can pay coaches, have more scouts, improve facilities, etc. It is no coincidence that the top programs year after year usually have the most money.

Fact. And that is not a recent phenomena at all. That has been the case since the days of Heisman and Alexander at GT. Unfortunately GT was a top dog 100 years ago and now is a lower tier P4 team in generating revenue.

 

[stinger78]

Money plays a big factor in how much you can pay coaches, have more scouts, improve facilities, etc. It is no coincidence that the top programs year after year usually have the most money.

That’s not the point I’m making. That’s like profoundly stating that water is wet.

Reading comprehension courses for both of you.