Coach Brent Key Scenario

[THWG]

I think you’re putting way too much stock into the UGA game. If Key wins out and makes into the ACCCG, and we have 8 wins going into the UGA game and get beat 52-7, you think that would be enough not to retain Key? Georgia already beat Oregon 49-3, Auburn 42-10, and South Carolina 48-7. By the end of the year they will have probably blown out Vandy, Florida, Miss. St, and Kentucky too. Why does that game hold so much significance for Key’s future in your opinion? It’s not like the other teams on their schedule are competing with them. Mizzou has played the closest regular season game against them in 2 years, and just got beat by Florida to go to 0-3 in conference and 2-4 overall. Having a competitive game with UGA is by no means a sign of having a stable program.

I wouldn't put Mississippi State on that list. I think they'll upset ugag in Starkvegas.

 

[JacketOff]

It is more that I think nobody is going to be crying if we don't hire the guy who just lost to UGA by a lot. Key has been here 4 years. Not 8 games. Something drastic needs to happen for him to offset that first 3 years he was here. Sure winning out before that would be something drastic. I don't see that happening, and I don't put a lot of stock in beating Duke, UVA, or VT this year (or at this point even miami). When we fired Collins the mantra is that we had to show we were serious about winning football as the reason we had to do it now. Hiring Key because he went 6-2 against a stretch that missed two of the top 3 teams we will have played, and possibly 3 of the top 6 or so, against the coastal the way it is doesn't say we're serious. It says we're still cheap and are hoping to get lucky despite that. That isn't the case if he beats UGA.

He’s been here for 4 years, but he’ll only be here for 8 games at his current position. Why would you use Key’s years as solely OL coach as more of a reason to let him go than when he actually the head coach?

In order for Key to go 6-2, he’ll have to beat at least one of Miami, UNC, and FSU. Those are 3 schools that have said, “we’re serious about winning football games.” And Miami is the only one we get at home. 6-2 would get us to a level of football we’ve only seen once since 2015. In the last 8 years there’s only been 1 year where we were something other than mediocre, and Key would have accomplished it in only 3/4 of a season. Is that not an achievement worthy of merit?

Plus, any new coach that comes in will have growing pains, and it’s quite possible a new coach’s performance is worse in his first year than what his average performance will be. It happens all the time at numerous schools. That would mean 2023 would be another wasted year, and things might look even more grim, with an even further divided fanbase.

I’ve said before I don’t want us to just hand Key the job based on whatever he accomplishes this year. But there better be a damn good replacement lined up. We shouldn’t hire somebody else just for the sake of appearing like we have some sort of new perception. Hiring somebody like Harsin, or Mullen, Jeff Lebby, Dell McGee, etc would be a slap in the face to the program.

The program has been a laughing stock for 3 years. An automatic W for most teams on our schedule. Brent Key taking over a broken machine, and fixing it overnight is absolutely worthy of heavy consideration for the full time gig. He has gained the support of the majority of the fan base. Not hiring him and getting somebody who isn’t Deion or Chadwell is going to split the fan base again. And whoever comes in next will have an even more difficult time trying to unite everybody behind the program again.

I really believe you’re severely overthinking the need to get in “fresh blood.” To hire another head coach you would consider their entire resume, no? It seems like you aren’t really considering Key’s entire resume other than what’s happened here the last 3 years. Key’s resume is much more impressive than that. In fact, I believe it would be hard to find one of our prospective hires with a better overall resume than Brent Key’s.

 

[Gt2019]

I would think that most of the offensive staff would stay, since Brent Key is the the only one who was brought in before this year. On the defensive side, I think it depends. I don’t imagine Key feels the need to have 2 DL coaches (Knight and Turner) while having no dedicated LB coach.

I don’t know if I’m understanding what your saying correctly but Jason Semore is the dedicated LB coach.

 

[lv20gt]

He’s been here for 4 years, but he’ll only be here for 8 games at his current position. Why would you use Key’s years as solely OL coach as more of a reason to let him go than when he actually the head coach?

I'm not. The people who are using only a part of his time coaching are the ones who are only looking at 8 games against a partial schedule where he was interim head coach. I don't get why people would overlook and completely discount the other near 40 games he was here because he largely beat up on a weak coastal. A lot of the things people complained about Collins for were still present against Duke. Inconsistency in the redzone, lack of aggression both at the end of the first half, and second, key penalties that nearly cost us the game, punt game issues etc.

The program has been a laughing stock for 3 years.

And Key was a big part of the reason why. I know for some reason people want to pretend that Collins was the only one coaching the team the past three years, and maybe that explains the product if he was, but the reality is the entire coaching staff was part of the issue. And if we turn it around and get to a bowl, it won't be all because of Key, or likely even primarily because of him. It'll be on the staff. We have a new OC so it makes sense the offense will take time to adjust some, if it does. And defense, which has been the primary reason we won the last two games, is hardly on Key either.

 

[Thwg777]

I’m delightfully shocked after the past few weeks. While the new data set is small under Key, I surmise our problems couldn’t have been too profound since some of them can be fixed in a matter of days.

I’ve never played or coached sports. For anyone who has at this level, how is the environment for say an assistant or coordinator to challenge a head coach to make change? It’s really interesting that our staff is doing so well now. I wonder if they knew what was wrong and sat on it or were told too under Collins.

 

[4shotB]

I’ve never played or coached sports. For anyone who has at this level, how is the environment for say an assistant or coordinator to challenge a head coach to make change? It’s really interesting that our staff is doing so well now. I wonder if they knew what was wrong and sat on it or were told too under Collins.

This is an assumption but there is a parallel I think to the business world. It's a paradox of sorts but a strong manager doesn't mind being challenged by a subordinate (in a professional manner of course). A weak or incompetent manager however doesn't tolerate it whatsoever. Which is odd as they are the ones most likely to benefit from sound counsel. I think we have guys now that have been freed up to do their jobs without the cloud of micromanagemnt over their heads. Of course, this is entirely conjecture on my part based on my time in professional organizations.

 

[AugustaSwarm]

I'm not. The people who are using only a part of his time coaching are the ones who are only looking at 8 games against a partial schedule where he was interim head coach. I don't get why people would overlook and completely discount the other near 40 games he was here because he largely beat up on a weak coastal. A lot of the things people complained about Collins for were still present against Duke. Inconsistency in the redzone, lack of aggression both at the end of the first half, and second, key penalties that nearly cost us the game, punt game issues etc.



And Key was a big part of the reason why. I know for some reason people want to pretend that Collins was the only one coaching the team the past three years, and maybe that explains the product if he was, but the reality is the entire coaching staff was part of the issue. And if we turn it around and get to a bowl, it won't be all because of Key, or likely even primarily because of him. It'll be on the staff. We have a new OC so it makes sense the offense will take time to adjust some, if it does. And defense, which has been the primary reason we won the last two games, is hardly on Key either.

So basically all successes are due to position coaches and coordinators? And all failures before the removal of TPO were CBK fault? Is there anything positive that you attribute to CBK since the removal of TPO?

 

[bobongo]

The program has been a laughing stock for 3 years. An automatic W for most teams on our schedule. Brent Key taking over a broken machine, and fixing it overnight is absolutely worthy of heavy consideration for the full time gig. He has gained the support of the majority of the fan base. Not hiring him and getting somebody who isn’t Deion or Chadwell is going to split the fan base again. And whoever comes in next will have an even more difficult time trying to unite everybody behind the program again.

All the next coach, whomever that may be, needs to do to unite the fan base is WIN.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I will say that CBK stepping up and doing what CGC was not able to do (win) with these guys would only be a boon to our recruiting and our exposure. We're already getting a lot of big-time exposure with what Key and GT have accomplished in the last 2 weeks. We continue this roll and beat our next 3 opponents (including FSU, who I think we can beat), we're going to be getting a ton of press. Not only for the good things we're doing but because the story about the turn around from a 1-3 start after the firing of Stansbury and CGC to 5 straight wins and a bowl game will be newsworthy. Everybody loves a Cinderella.

 

[4shotB]

All the next coach, whomever that may be, needs to do to unite the fan base is WIN.

To be fair, you need to be be more specific. Gailey and Johnson both had winning records based on % but I don't recall things amongst the fans as being all sunshine and roses. Now, Collins OTOH, at the end there he did in fact unite the fans unlike anything seen since GO'L and three in a row days.

 

[JacketOff]

All the next coach, whomever that may be, needs to do to unite the fan base is WIN.

You’re absolutely right. The problem is, it’s hard to WIN your first year at a new job. Meaning our already divided fanbase would be divided even further with a new coach who doesn’t WIN in year 1. Making WINNING in year 2 an even steeper task. Let’s look at some of college football’s recent new hires and their first year at a new school:

Kirby Smart - Georgia 2016: 7-5 Losses to GT and Vandy

Brian Harsin - Auburn 2021: 6-6

Shane Beamer - South Carolina 2021: 6-6

Mack Brown - North Carolina 2019: 6-6

Steve Sarkisian - Texas 2021: 5-7

Mel Tucker - Colorado 2019: 5-7
Michigan State 2020: 2-5

James Franklin - Penn State 2014: 6-6

Mike Norvell - Florida State 2020: 3-6

Neal Brown - West Virginia 2019: 5-7

Matt Wells - Texas Tech 2019: 4-8

Mike Locksley - Maryland 2019: 3-9

Greg Schiano - Rutgers 2020: 3-6

Scott Frost - Nebraska 2018: 4-8

Chip Kelly - UCLA 2018: 4-8

Lance Leipold - Kansas 2021: 2-10

PJ Fleck - Minnesota 2017: 5-7

So far this year: Brent Venables at Oklahoma is 3-3,
Tony Elliot at UVA is 2-4 with possibly the worst team in the ACC,
Brent Pry at VT is 2-4 with possibly the worst team in the ACC,
Mike Elko is doing solid work at 4-2 with Duke
Mario Cristobal is 2-3 at Miami
Lincoln Riley looks really good, 6-0 at USC
Billy Napier is meh at Florida, 4-2 with L’s to big rivals in Kentucky and Tennessee, could’ve lost to USF as well.

The point is: some of those coaches remained stinkers, some had their programs do a complete 180. What they all have in common though, they struggled their first year. A lot of those first years were steps backwards from where most of those programs were in the previous years. The average record for most first year coaches is right at 5-7. So the question is, if we have a guy who can go 6-2 in 8 games, why would we take a massive risk and a potentially huge set back to go out and hire somebody else who might not be able to match that record? If Key finishes 6-2 he would have a ton of momentum and support from the fanbase. Hire somebody that messes that up and it could be another brutal few years.

 

[Deleted member 4873]

I'm not. The people who are using only a part of his time coaching are the ones who are only looking at 8 games against a partial schedule where he was interim head coach. I don't get why people would overlook and completely discount the other near 40 games he was here because he largely beat up on a weak coastal. A lot of the things people complained about Collins for were still present against Duke. Inconsistency in the redzone, lack of aggression both at the end of the first half, and second, key penalties that nearly cost us the game, punt game issues etc.



And Key was a big part of the reason why. I know for some reason people want to pretend that Collins was the only one coaching the team the past three years, and maybe that explains the product if he was, but the reality is the entire coaching staff was part of the issue. And if we turn it around and get to a bowl, it won't be all because of Key, or likely even primarily because of him. It'll be on the staff. We have a new OC so it makes sense the offense will take time to adjust some, if it does. And defense, which has been the primary reason we won the last two games, is hardly on Key either.

Head Coaches have different styles. You can claim assistant coaches are largely to blame for GT failures and in most circumstances that would be correct. What you probably don’t realize is Coach Collins had his hands on every facet of this team and his style was to micromanage. Not intended as a criticism, just a factual statement. . Coach Collins did not delegate nor did he allow his assistants to recruit their players. Key had a solid reputation at Alabama. Face it, he took this team on the road as 24 point underdogs and beat Pittsburg. That is one of the biggest upsets this season. Then he beat a favored and much improved Duke team. After a near collapse at the end of the game, the team did not fold, instead they recovered and won in OT. Two wins in two games as underdog. What more do you want?

 

[bobongo]

To be fair, you need to be be more specific. Gailey and Johnson both had winning records based on % but I don't recall things amongst the fans as being all sunshine and roses. Now, Collins OTOH, at the end there he did in fact unite the fans unlike anything seen since GO'L and three in a row days.

What can I say? They didn't win enough.
The truth is that the fan base will remain divided unless a coach can come in here and average at least 8 regular season wins a year, minimum. Anything less will leave a divided fan base. IIWII.

 

[bobongo]

You’re absolutely right. The problem is, it’s hard to WIN your first year at a new job. Meaning our already divided fanbase would be divided even further with a new coach who doesn’t WIN in year 1. Making WINNING in year 2 an even steeper task. Let’s look at some of college football’s recent new hires and their first year at a new school:

Kirby Smart - Georgia 2016: 7-5 Losses to GT and Vandy

Brian Harsin - Auburn 2021: 6-6

Shane Beamer - South Carolina 2021: 6-6

Mack Brown - North Carolina 2019: 6-6

Steve Sarkisian - Texas 2021: 5-7

Mel Tucker - Colorado 2019: 5-7
Michigan State 2020: 2-5

James Franklin - Penn State 2014: 6-6

Mike Norvell - Florida State 2020: 3-6

Neal Brown - West Virginia 2019: 5-7

Matt Wells - Texas Tech 2019: 4-8

Mike Locksley - Maryland 2019: 3-9

Greg Schiano - Rutgers 2020: 3-6

Scott Frost - Nebraska 2018: 4-8

Chip Kelly - UCLA 2018: 4-8

Lance Leipold - Kansas 2021: 2-10

PJ Fleck - Minnesota 2017: 5-7

So far this year: Brent Venables at Oklahoma is 3-3,
Tony Elliot at UVA is 2-4 with possibly the worst team in the ACC,
Brent Pry at VT is 2-4 with possibly the worst team in the ACC,
Mike Elko is doing solid work at 4-2 with Duke
Mario Cristobal is 2-3 at Miami
Lincoln Riley looks really good, 6-0 at USC
Billy Napier is meh at Florida, 4-2 with L’s to big rivals in Kentucky and Tennessee, could’ve lost to USF as well.

The point is: some of those coaches remained stinkers, some had their programs do a complete 180. What they all have in common though, they struggled their first year. A lot of those first years were steps backwards from where most of those programs were in the previous years. The average record for most first year coaches is right at 5-7. So the question is, if we have a guy who can go 6-2 in 8 games, why would we take a massive risk and a potentially huge set back to go out and hire somebody else who might not be able to match that record? If Key finishes 6-2 he would have a ton of momentum and support from the fanbase. Hire somebody that messes that up and it could be another brutal few years.

And I'll wager they all have divided fan bases. I agree - Key goes 6-2 and we'll 90% be on the same page. We'll be ahead of the game.

 

[stech81]

What can I say? They didn't win enough.
The truth is that the fan base will remain divided unless a coach can come in here and average at least 8 regular season wins a year, minimum. Anything less will leave a divided fan base. IIWII.

The truth is our fan base will always be divided no matter who the coach is here. There is not one person we could hire and get 100% behind him. And if we had 95% for him and only 5% against him those 5% would be on here the most driving us crazy. Hell I really believe if we had the internet in the 50's the cries to run Dodd off from 57 to 60 would have been loud.

 

[bobongo]

The truth is our fan base will always be divided no matter who the coach is here. There is not one person we could hire and get 100% behind him. And if we had 95% for him and only 5% against him those 5% would be on here the most driving us crazy. Hell I really believe if we had the internet in the 50's the cries to run Dodd off from 57 to 60 would have been loud.

True. I regard 90% support a relatively undivided fan base. There's always somebody. If a new coach came in here and went 12-0 somebody out there would hate him from the start and never change.

 

[bishopbee]

Jeff Sims said two words about CBK that stuck with me in his post game on field interview after the Pitt win .... "he's genuine"

Thought that spoke volumes

 

[leatherneckjacket]

In order for Key to go 6-2, he’ll have to beat at least one of Miami, UNC, and FSU.

Actually, he will have to beat two of those three assuming we also lose to Ugag.

 

[UgaBlows]

I will say that CBK stepping up and doing what CGC was not able to do (win) with these guys would only be a boon to our recruiting and our exposure. We're already getting a lot of big-time exposure with what Key and GT have accomplished in the last 2 weeks. We continue this roll and beat our next 3 opponents (including FSU, who I think we can beat), we're going to be getting a ton of press. Not only for the good things we're doing but because the story about the turn around from a 1-3 start after the firing of Stansbury and CGC to 5 straight wins and a bowl game will be newsworthy. Everybody loves a Cinderella.

I think we beat FSU also, Sims i bet still remembers their coach dissing his scholly- he will ball out 100% against them.

 

[UgaBlows]

Head Coaches have different styles. You can claim assistant coaches are largely to blame for GT failures and in most circumstances that would be correct. What you probably don’t realize is Coach Collins had his hands on every facet of this team and his style was to micromanage. Not intended as a criticism, just a factual statement. . Coach Collins did not delegate nor did he allow his assistants to recruit their players. Key had a solid reputation at Alabama. Face it, he took this team on the road as 24 point underdogs and beat Pittsburg. That is one of the biggest upsets this season. Then he beat a favored and much improved Duke team. After a near collapse at the end of the game, the team did not fold, instead they recovered and won in OT. Two wins in two games as underdog. What more do you want?

I want MORE please!