Coach Brent Key Scenario

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,873
Mea Culpa: I was not a fan of Brent Key when it was announced he was coming "home" to coach the OL and be an assistant head coach. After 3+ years of subpar OL play, and poor recruiting at his position + development at his position of coaching, I would have been happy if they pushed him out the door along with Collins. When it was announced he was interim coach, I was very suspect.

I'm saying that to preface something:

What are we doing here? What's the point in all of this?

I'm not saying this because Brent Key won one game and it's an emotional response to that win. I'm asking fellow GT fans a genuine question.

I keep reading if Brent Key goes 6-2 or if he goes 8-0 Key should get a complimentary interview but he shouldn't be our next coach. GT needs to clean house and bring in someone with a better name.

Have we lost the plot? The point of this is to win. Period. It's not to win press conferences, or brag to your buddy at school/at work/at the bar that we got Coach Prime/UGA's top recruiter/whatever hot name if floating out there. It's about winning.

It is VERY hard to win at GT. It's even harder to sustain that winning. Do fans understand how difficult a situation Brent Key is in? He just took a group of players and coaches that just had their worlds turned upside down, cleaned up a LOT of what got us in this situation, went on the road, and beat a ranked team with less than a week to to prepare.

Pitt currently has the #10 Defensive FEI in the nation, #18 DFEI last season. We just scored more points on them than any other FBS opponent we played this season. We kept them to the lowest points scored against us than any other FBS school. Think about that.

Like I said above, this is just one game. You can't extrapolate too much from this, because GT can easily revert to how we've been playing for the last 3+ years. However, if the first game is any indication, and we keep getting better, and keep winning...say go 6-2 or (this is crazy) go 8-0...well, ladies and gentleman, with all due respect, Brent Key should be our head coach going forward. I never thought I would say that. Oh, and our special teams looked night and day different from what we've seen the past 3+ years...that was amazing in itself.

Isn't the point of all this to WIN?! GT (the fans and school) would be crazy to let a coach who's proved himself under trying circumstance leave to chase some hot name that hasn't proven they can win at GT. You know what I saw when they interviewed Key at halftime and after the game? A coach that sounded like George O'Leary/Ralph Friedgen/Nick Saban. Direct, to the point on what we needed to do, and someone who sounded like they knew what needed to be done to get the team to play better...not a cheerleader.

Key is also a guy that lives and breathes GT. You could tell that what's happening with GT these 3+ years ate at him. That interview with him after the game looked like he finally got good news that someone he loved just came out of surgery successfully after battling a disease for 3+ years.

IF (big if) Key goes 6-2 and we go to a bowl game, there really isn't a question anymore. If there is, it's because some people think it's more important to win press conferences.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,782
I wouldn't see much sense in it. Key has been here the entire time Collins was here. I think it's naïve to believe that Collins was simultaneously so incompetent that we looked the way we did as often as we did under him, but that he was also competent enough to prevent an otherwise good enough staff from correcting anything. For coaches who are new this year that is different but for guys like Key and Thacker, to me they are auditioning for other jobs. I see no way after we got embarassed to the point of making a mid year coaching change and firing the AD, that we just promote the #2 from within.
No, that was incompetence.
Why make the judgement now on Key? Tech could well end up in the ACC title game. If promoting from within is deemed to be the best option, then that's what should be done.
 

CEB

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
893
Mea Culpa: I was not a fan of Brent Key when it was announced he was coming "home" to coach the OL and be an assistant head coach. After 3+ years of subpar OL play, and poor recruiting at his position + development at his position of coaching, I would have been happy if they pushed him out the door along with Collins. When it was announced he was interim coach, I was very suspect.

I'm saying that to preface something:

What are we doing here? What's the point in all of this?

I'm not saying this because Brent Key won one game and it's an emotional response to that win. I'm asking fellow GT fans a genuine question.

I keep reading if Brent Key goes 6-2 or if he goes 8-0 Key should get a complimentary interview but he shouldn't be our next coach. GT needs to clean house and bring in someone with a better name.

Have we lost the plot? The point of this is to win. Period. It's not to win press conferences, or brag to your buddy at school/at work/at the bar that we got Coach Prime/UGA's top recruiter/whatever hot name if floating out there. It's about winning.

It is VERY hard to win at GT. It's even harder to sustain that winning. Do fans understand how difficult a situation Brent Key is in? He just took a group of players and coaches that just had their worlds turned upside down, cleaned up a LOT of what got us in this situation, went on the road, and beat a ranked team with less than a week to to prepare.

Pitt currently has the #10 Defensive FEI in the nation, #18 DFEI last season. We just scored more points on them than any other FBS opponent we played this season. We kept them to the lowest points scored against us than any other FBS school. Think about that.

Like I said above, this is just one game. You can't extrapolate too much from this, because GT can easily revert to how we've been playing for the last 3+ years. However, if the first game is any indication, and we keep getting better, and keep winning...say go 6-2 or (this is crazy) go 8-0...well, ladies and gentleman, with all due respect, Brent Key should be our head coach going forward. I never thought I would say that. Oh, and our special teams looked night and day different from what we've seen the past 3+ years...that was amazing in itself.

Isn't the point of all this to WIN?! GT (the fans and school) would be crazy to let a coach who's proved himself under trying circumstance leave to chase some hot name that hasn't proven they can win at GT. You know what I saw when they interviewed Key at halftime and after the game? A coach that sounded like George O'Leary/Ralph Friedgen/Nick Saban. Direct, to the point on what we needed to do, and someone who sounded like they knew what needed to be done to get the team to play better...not a cheerleader.

Key is also a guy that lives and breathes GT. You could tell that what's happening with GT these 3+ years ate at him. That interview with him after the game looked like he finally got good news that someone he loved just came out of surgery successfully after battling a disease for 3+ years.

IF (big if) Key goes 6-2 and we go to a bowl game, there really isn't a question anymore. If there is, it's because some people think it's more important to win press conferences.
WELL SAID!

The jury is still WAAAY out on all of this and one game is certainly not a good sample size, but we were all talking about whether or not Collins stays with 6 wins... and it was hotly debated (although most said "no way" we get the six wins). So now we have a coach that delivers six W's (hypothetically) and we say hes not the answer? It sets up an interesting scenario, for sure!
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,466
Mea Culpa: I was not a fan of Brent Key when it was announced he was coming "home" to coach the OL and be an assistant head coach. After 3+ years of subpar OL play, and poor recruiting at his position + development at his position of coaching, I would have been happy if they pushed him out the door along with Collins. When it was announced he was interim coach, I was very suspect.

I'm saying that to preface something:

What are we doing here? What's the point in all of this?

I'm not saying this because Brent Key won one game and it's an emotional response to that win. I'm asking fellow GT fans a genuine question.

I keep reading if Brent Key goes 6-2 or if he goes 8-0 Key should get a complimentary interview but he shouldn't be our next coach. GT needs to clean house and bring in someone with a better name.

Have we lost the plot? The point of this is to win. Period. It's not to win press conferences, or brag to your buddy at school/at work/at the bar that we got Coach Prime/UGA's top recruiter/whatever hot name if floating out there. It's about winning.

It is VERY hard to win at GT. It's even harder to sustain that winning. Do fans understand how difficult a situation Brent Key is in? He just took a group of players and coaches that just had their worlds turned upside down, cleaned up a LOT of what got us in this situation, went on the road, and beat a ranked team with less than a week to to prepare.

Pitt currently has the #10 Defensive FEI in the nation, #18 DFEI last season. We just scored more points on them than any other FBS opponent we played this season. We kept them to the lowest points scored against us than any other FBS school. Think about that.

Like I said above, this is just one game. You can't extrapolate too much from this, because GT can easily revert to how we've been playing for the last 3+ years. However, if the first game is any indication, and we keep getting better, and keep winning...say go 6-2 or (this is crazy) go 8-0...well, ladies and gentleman, with all due respect, Brent Key should be our head coach going forward. I never thought I would say that. Oh, and our special teams looked night and day different from what we've seen the past 3+ years...that was amazing in itself.

Isn't the point of all this to WIN?! GT (the fans and school) would be crazy to let a coach who's proved himself under trying circumstance leave to chase some hot name that hasn't proven they can win at GT. You know what I saw when they interviewed Key at halftime and after the game? A coach that sounded like George O'Leary/Ralph Friedgen/Nick Saban. Direct, to the point on what we needed to do, and someone who sounded like they knew what needed to be done to get the team to play better...not a cheerleader.

Key is also a guy that lives and breathes GT. You could tell that what's happening with GT these 3+ years ate at him. That interview with him after the game looked like he finally got good news that someone he loved just came out of surgery successfully after battling a disease for 3+ years.

IF (big if) Key goes 6-2 and we go to a bowl game, there really isn't a question anymore. If there is, it's because some people think it's more important to win press conferences.
Amen, if he turns this shipwreck around and gets us to a bowl he should absolutely be the top candidate. I believe that he is also supposed to be a pretty top notch recruiter. If we come out and beat duke that is going to say a ton about the difference that he is making in a very short time amd in an extremely difficult situation.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,873
Amen, if he turns this shipwreck around and gets us to a bowl he should absolutely be the top candidate. I believe that he is also supposed to be a pretty top notch recruiter. If we come out and beat duke that is going to say a ton about the difference that he is making in a very short time amd in an extremely difficult situation.

Duke is a good team. They went on the road and almost beat Kansas (yes, that Kansas with the hottest HC candidate currently). They're currently 1st in the Coastal. IF GT can beat them, that will say a LOT about where this GT team is headed under Key.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,151
Key can get results that should get him consideration if the team becomes competitive and wins games. The proof of a good coach is he wins the games he is expected to win and wins some he is expected to lose. He is off to a good start but no one will overlook this team the rest of the season. Pitt may have overlooked us. We have some good athletes on our team and they showed it on Saturday. In the past they may have folded when Pitt scored late to cut it to 8 after driving 99 yards but the kids responded with that last drive to answer. Not sure that would have happened the last 3 years.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,360
I wouldn't see much sense in it. Key has been here the entire time Collins was here. I think it's naïve to believe that Collins was simultaneously so incompetent that we looked the way we did as often as we did under him, but that he was also competent enough to prevent an otherwise good enough staff from correcting anything. For coaches who are new this year that is different but for guys like Key and Thacker, to me they are auditioning for other jobs. I see no way after we got embarassed to the point of making a mid year coaching change and firing the AD, that we just promote the #2 from within.

Don’t underestimate how much a bad boss can undo the best work of their subordinates, whether competently or incompetently.

One thing that says Key has talent is that he tried to leave—someone wanted him and he wanted to improve his environment

We will see if more stories leak out over the next few weeks
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,670
Mea Culpa: I was not a fan of Brent Key when it was announced he was coming "home" to coach the OL and be an assistant head coach. After 3+ years of subpar OL play, and poor recruiting at his position + development at his position of coaching, I would have been happy if they pushed him out the door along with Collins. When it was announced he was interim coach, I was very suspect.

I'm saying that to preface something:

What are we doing here? What's the point in all of this?

I'm not saying this because Brent Key won one game and it's an emotional response to that win. I'm asking fellow GT fans a genuine question.

I keep reading if Brent Key goes 6-2 or if he goes 8-0 Key should get a complimentary interview but he shouldn't be our next coach. GT needs to clean house and bring in someone with a better name.

Have we lost the plot? The point of this is to win. Period. It's not to win press conferences, or brag to your buddy at school/at work/at the bar that we got Coach Prime/UGA's top recruiter/whatever hot name if floating out there. It's about winning.

It is VERY hard to win at GT. It's even harder to sustain that winning. Do fans understand how difficult a situation Brent Key is in? He just took a group of players and coaches that just had their worlds turned upside down, cleaned up a LOT of what got us in this situation, went on the road, and beat a ranked team with less than a week to to prepare.

Pitt currently has the #10 Defensive FEI in the nation, #18 DFEI last season. We just scored more points on them than any other FBS opponent we played this season. We kept them to the lowest points scored against us than any other FBS school. Think about that.

Like I said above, this is just one game. You can't extrapolate too much from this, because GT can easily revert to how we've been playing for the last 3+ years. However, if the first game is any indication, and we keep getting better, and keep winning...say go 6-2 or (this is crazy) go 8-0...well, ladies and gentleman, with all due respect, Brent Key should be our head coach going forward. I never thought I would say that. Oh, and our special teams looked night and day different from what we've seen the past 3+ years...that was amazing in itself.

Isn't the point of all this to WIN?! GT (the fans and school) would be crazy to let a coach who's proved himself under trying circumstance leave to chase some hot name that hasn't proven they can win at GT. You know what I saw when they interviewed Key at halftime and after the game? A coach that sounded like George O'Leary/Ralph Friedgen/Nick Saban. Direct, to the point on what we needed to do, and someone who sounded like they knew what needed to be done to get the team to play better...not a cheerleader.

Key is also a guy that lives and breathes GT. You could tell that what's happening with GT these 3+ years ate at him. That interview with him after the game looked like he finally got good news that someone he loved just came out of surgery successfully after battling a disease for 3+ years.

IF (big if) Key goes 6-2 and we go to a bowl game, there really isn't a question anymore. If there is, it's because some people think it's more important to win press conferences.
That really just depends on whether you think the rest of this season is a large enough sample size to commit to this staff for 4-5 more years and disregard the fact that they played a large role in the darkest time the program has ever seen.
 

Techster

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15,873
That really just depends on whether you think the rest of this season is a large enough sample size to commit to this staff for 4-5 more years and disregard the fact that they played a large role in the darkest time the program has ever seen.

I think I'd be confident in giving Brent Key 4-5 more years. I'm pretty sure Key will have a LOT of staff turnover if given the keys to the GT football kingdom. I doubt he keeps many, if any, of the defensive staff. For all intents and purposes, this is CGC's staff. If Key can win 6+ games with CGC's staff, what can he do with his own staff?

The fact that he can win 6+ games tells me he's proven enough to have a certain floor. The 4-5 year question will be what's his ceiling? That's what we're really going to pay for.
 

WreckinGT

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I think I'd be confident in giving Brent Key 4-5 more years. I'm pretty sure Key will have a LOT of staff turnover if given the keys to the GT football kingdom. I doubt he keeps many, if any, of the defensive staff. For all intents and purposes, this is CGC's staff. If Key can win 6+ games with CGC's staff, what can he do with his own staff?

The fact that he can win 6+ games tells me he's proven enough to have a certain floor. The 4-5 year question will be what's his ceiling? That's what we're really going to pay for.
That makes no sense with what we currently know. The defensive staff is why he beat Pitt. The offense was terrible.
 

bke1984

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2,921
I keep seeing people saying this. I get it. And not picking on you @Longestday ...it's been a common theme today.

But, um, it can't have been more than one game. We had to win the one, to be able to win two. And we played a good Pitt team that is well-coached. Did we get "lucky"? Sure, every team that wins has some luck go their way as well as some against them. But for the most part we made our luck or were at least in a position to capitalize on it. I'm not sure we could have asked for more, so the "It's just one game" mind-set just seems to me to be a bit...unnecessarily pessimistic.

I guess it's a "Curb Your Enthusiasm" warning, but I think we deserve to have a bit of enthusiasm at this point.
We need the enthusiasm, but folks are talking about everything from hiring Key as permanent coach to winning the Coastal after winning that one game. One game does not erase the issues we’ve seen with this team. It will take time. Let’s start by winning two in a row and then see where we can go from there.
 

Techster

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15,873
That makes no sense with what we currently know. The defensive staff is why he beat Pitt. The offense was terrible.

You missed the entire point. Key may choose to clean house, he may choose to get ride of a few staff and keep the rest, or he may choose to keep everyone.

The point is, judging Key if he wins 6+ games because of who is on the current staff is the wrong way to look at it.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,360
I think I'd be confident in giving Brent Key 4-5 more years. I'm pretty sure Key will have a LOT of staff turnover if given the keys to the GT football kingdom. I doubt he keeps many, if any, of the defensive staff. For all intents and purposes, this is CGC's staff. If Key can win 6+ games with CGC's staff, what can he do with his own staff?

The fact that he can win 6+ games tells me he's proven enough to have a certain floor. The 4-5 year question will be what's his ceiling? That's what we're really going to pay for.
Tillman, Seymore, and Turner have only been here a year. A big slice of the staff have only been here one year. I don't know that I'd say that this year's staff is tied at the hip to Collins--many of them are less tied to Collins than Key is.

BTW, our ramblinwreck pages either need updating or Collins is still recruiting for us: https://ramblinwreck.com/georgia-tech-football-recruiting-central.
 

dcall

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
78
Mea Culpa: I was not a fan of Brent Key when it was announced he was coming "home" to coach the OL and be an assistant head coach. After 3+ years of subpar OL play, and poor recruiting at his position + development at his position of coaching, I would have been happy if they pushed him out the door along with Collins. When it was announced he was interim coach, I was very suspect.

I'm saying that to preface something:

What are we doing here? What's the point in all of this?

I'm not saying this because Brent Key won one game and it's an emotional response to that win. I'm asking fellow GT fans a genuine question.

I keep reading if Brent Key goes 6-2 or if he goes 8-0 Key should get a complimentary interview but he shouldn't be our next coach. GT needs to clean house and bring in someone with a better name.

Have we lost the plot? The point of this is to win. Period. It's not to win press conferences, or brag to your buddy at school/at work/at the bar that we got Coach Prime/UGA's top recruiter/whatever hot name if floating out there. It's about winning.

It is VERY hard to win at GT. It's even harder to sustain that winning. Do fans understand how difficult a situation Brent Key is in? He just took a group of players and coaches that just had their worlds turned upside down, cleaned up a LOT of what got us in this situation, went on the road, and beat a ranked team with less than a week to to prepare.

Pitt currently has the #10 Defensive FEI in the nation, #18 DFEI last season. We just scored more points on them than any other FBS opponent we played this season. We kept them to the lowest points scored against us than any other FBS school. Think about that.

Like I said above, this is just one game. You can't extrapolate too much from this, because GT can easily revert to how we've been playing for the last 3+ years. However, if the first game is any indication, and we keep getting better, and keep winning...say go 6-2 or (this is crazy) go 8-0...well, ladies and gentleman, with all due respect, Brent Key should be our head coach going forward. I never thought I would say that. Oh, and our special teams looked night and day different from what we've seen the past 3+ years...that was amazing in itself.

Isn't the point of all this to WIN?! GT (the fans and school) would be crazy to let a coach who's proved himself under trying circumstance leave to chase some hot name that hasn't proven they can win at GT. You know what I saw when they interviewed Key at halftime and after the game? A coach that sounded like George O'Leary/Ralph Friedgen/Nick Saban. Direct, to the point on what we needed to do, and someone who sounded like they knew what needed to be done to get the team to play better...not a cheerleader.

Key is also a guy that lives and breathes GT. You could tell that what's happening with GT these 3+ years ate at him. That interview with him after the game looked like he finally got good news that someone he loved just came out of surgery successfully after battling a disease for 3+ years.

IF (big if) Key goes 6-2 and we go to a bowl game, there really isn't a question anymore. If there is, it's because some people think it's more important to win press conferences.
This 100 percent!
 

MidtownJacket

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Staff member
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4,371
My position on this is that CBK came in and did what he needed to do to get us from losing to UCF to beating #[email protected] Pitt.

Road game win, against a ranked opponent in conference is the next step we had in front of us and he took it. He talks about winning each play, series and day in practice to win the game at the end of the week. The metaphor fits well here too.

He either got the team to rally and steal a win or he didn’t. It was going to be a binary thing. We just rolled into the house of a PHYSICAL exert their will on their opponents team and smacked them in the mouth. Told them to lie down and held them there till the final whistle.

That was job 1, and he completed it. Even better he put a plan in for ST, made changes on punt team and at FGK and all of a sudden no blocks, avg of 44yds/punt and 4/4 from FG in a game that - the staff rightly identified would be a field position and defensive struggle. Even better beyond that, when given the chance to gloat or celebrate or wax poetic of what it meant to him to win he identified the guys who got it done (coaches and team) then mentioned the mistakes to clean up.

I am always pulling for GT, but I’d be a liar if I didn’t admit in my heart I’m pulling just a little more for Brent Key. That’s a wide turnaround from my previous feelings towards other staff.
 

leatherneckjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
610
Location
Atlanta, GA
That really just depends on whether you think the rest of this season is a large enough sample size to commit to this staff for 4-5 more years and disregard the fact that they played a large role in the darkest time the program has ever seen.
To be fair, the only person to whom we would be committing 4-5 more years is Brent Key. All other coaches work on a year to year contract. While it is way too early to say one way or another, I would imagine that by the end of the year we would have a good barometer to determine if we would like to commit to him or not.

Also that is quite the hyperbole if you think that this is the darkest time our program has ever seen.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,151
You missed the entire point. Key may choose to clean house, he may choose to get ride of a few staff and keep the rest, or he may choose to keep everyone.

The point is, judging Key if he wins 6+ games because of who is on the current staff is the wrong way to look at it.
Let's assume he does well enough to be considered under a new AD. The first question would be "what are you going to change moving forward". I am sure he has some idea on who he would retain. He has been in football coaching long enough to have knowledge on who can coach and who can't.
Wasn't Pitt holding opponents rushing to under 100 yards per game. The O did a decent job against a good D other than some ill advised throws. D played really well until the 4th quarter and especially the first half. Losing their best RB helped us as well.
 

Techwood Relict

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
432
Amen, if he turns this shipwreck around and gets us to a bowl he should absolutely be the top candidate. I believe that he is also supposed to be a pretty top notch recruiter. If we come out and beat duke that is going to say a ton about the difference that he is making in a very short time amd in an extremely difficult situation.
This Is Fine GIF

Lot of water still in the boat, but this week was progress. Can't wait to see this next game.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,106
I don't get why people are acting like Key wasn't here the entire time. He was here the last 3 years. He was a coach for the Ole Miss game. He was a coach for the ND and UGA games last year. He was a coach when we got waxed by Pitt last year, and a coach when we lost to UNI. He was a coach when we lost 73-7 against Clemson, when we lost to Temple 24-2 and when we lost to Citadel. If the argument is that all of that falls only on Collins as a head coach then maybe a big part of the problem was his AHC wasn't doing anything. He isn't Dabo at Clemson under Bowden. Dabo was a position coach excelling at what he was doing for an underachieving but still pretty good program. Key was the Assistant head coach and his position group was arguably our worst group over the last 3 years.

Let me ask this. Let's say we go 4-3 the rest of the way, make a bowl game, but don't hire Key. Does anyone think he'd even be in consideration for a P5 HC job? Because I don't. Nobody else would completely separate him from his role in the mess we had, even if he turned around this year into a moderate success. The other thing is that going with key opens up the door for the possibility that even if we turn around this year to a mediocre year (6-6 or 7-5) that we fall back to 3-9 levels next year. In that situation we'd have fired an AD and coach mid year to say we are serious about this, just to promote from within and get the same results. I can't imagine the president allowing that.
 
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