Clemson game thread

[up state jacket]

Why is everyone worried about recruiting if CBG is dismissed at any time. College basketball today is not like it used to be. Players will transfer if the old coach is not any good and they will transfer if the new coach is not to their satisfaction. Getting the right man for the job is more important than recruits. We tried keeping a coach once for because he brought a top five class in, how did that work out? Derrick Favors, Thad Young, Crit. Recruiting will work itself out with the right man.

 

[GTRX7]

I am not sure I understand the last post. Getting the right coach means getting a coach who can recruit. Yes, Paul Hewitt needed to be fired at the end, but he worked out okay actually. 5 NCAA Tournament appearances and one NIT in 11 years is a heck of a lot better than what is going on now (not to mention a national title game appearance). You mention guys like Young, Critt, and Favors and ask how that worked out for us. Well, those just happen to be the last two years we made the tourney. We need a coach who can get more of those guys, not just one who is happy to be here.

 

[up state jacket]

Paul Hewitt did not work out OK. He hit the homerun on the final four year, got dave brainless to extend his contract that made it painful to almost impossible to fire him. Paul Hewitt is still killing this program. If you are waiting on Gregory to strike it rich on the recruiting circle and turn this ship around, then I suggest you bring a big lunch to snack on while you wait because you might get hungry while you're waiting. No program is worth waiting on that big recruiting class to right the ship. Gregory either can or he can't. Like someone else said coaching has cost Tech more wins this year than players have. This isn't his first rodeo and I'm not seeing positive results on the court. Remember Hewitt was "great ambassador" for Tech basketball to. He didn't embarrass the program or have bad press he just ran the damn program in the ground. Brian Gregory is finishing it off.

 

[GTRX7]

Still not sure I am quite understanding your posts? I think you and I are on the same page that a change needs to be made and that Gregory has shown us enough that he is not the right coach or recruiter to get it done. We also both seem to agree that Hewitt needed to be fired when he was (and maybe a year or two earlier).

Now, where we might disagree is on two other points. I think we need more players like Favors, Critt, and Young. I can't tell if you agree with that or not? I also think Paul Hewitt's record at Tech (prior to the last few years that rightfully led to his firing) was good. In his first 7 years, he took us to 4 NCAA Tournaments and one NIT. He had much more than just one good year. If you could guarantee me that level of success in the next 7 years with the next coach, I would probably take it.

Your real problem seems to be with his contract, not his record over those first 7 years. But that wasn't Hewitt's fault. That was the AD's fault.

 

[awbuzz]

....Losing that way actually feels worse than just getting blown out...

If we are going to lose, I'd rather have been tight that getting our arse whopped. Granted when your getting run out of the gym, you're really just wanting the game to end ASAP.
In a close game at least there is some entertainment and desire to have the game played out. JMO.

 

[alaguy]

wow, looked at stats
AGAIN,amazingly consistent on pathetic shooting but strong OFF rebounding ,with poor asst/TO ratio but good def--sounds familiar as well as the recipe for close loss AGAIN

 

[swampsting]

The problem with getting the Favors, T Young and Crits of the world is you know going in they are one and done and if you don't accomplish anything that year you have them, you pretty much wasted a lot of time and effort that could have been spent on guys who might not be just in their class but would stay longer. Mercer had a senior-laden team and beat Duke's one and dones. Larranaga rode a deep senior class to the Final Four. Kentucky just reloads on one and dones and a whole bunch of their guys didn't go after last season.

Neither Crit nor Favors got us as far as the Sweet 16. We were one and done in the tournament, both ACC and NCAA, in Thaddeus' only season.
Is that worth the investment in one and dones?

 

[Peacone36]

What did Mercer do the three years prior to the Duke upset? What did they do this year?

You need 4 year players but also need Mickey D's guys.

 

[GT_Inta-neer]

It all comes down to the $$$. With the performance of the program so far under his control in mind, CBG should be fired if, and only if the money is there. With his contract extended in 2013, CBG's contract now runs through the 2017-2018 seasons. That is 3 more years. This is NOT the last year on his contract. The buyout on his contract only got as low as 50% of the base compensation, if that stayed true for the extension as well that would mean that his buyout is currently over $1.5 million. Where is this $650,000 buyout number coming from, because I don't see it being accurate for a coach with 3 more years on his contract. And I am not sure of the rumors that Hewitt's contract is paid off either, I haven't seen a concrete source for that. I don't think that CBG has gotten a team with "all his own guys" on it yet. This team is a bunch of transfers and underclassmen who need to come together. This team almost reset to zero this season. Has it worked out? No. Does a change need to be made? Probably. But only if the money is right, because another season of CBG would not be the end of the world for this team. I think the team will be better next season regardless of the coach. If we can afford a better coach let's do it, if not we will be better anyway.

 

[Peacone36]

CBG said this is the first team at GT with all his own guys before the season. He then pointed out his success at Dayton when he had his own guys.

 

[orientalnc]

CBG said this is the first team at GT with all his own guys before the season. He then pointed out his success at Dayton when he had his own guys.

Also, the problem is not necessarily with the guys on this team. It rests largely with the ones not here. Had Solomon and Stacey never been here. Had Carter not left (to improve his chances of developing). Had a couple of recruits come to Tech who did not want to share the floor with Solo. But these are on CBG as well, because they were his mistakes.

 

[Connell62]

There is a lot of different things that you can point too with respect to BG, but the bottom line is that he hasn't gotten it done in Win column.

In his line of work, that is ultimately what you are judged on.

 

[MidtownJacket]

There is a lot of different things that you can point too with respect to BG, but the bottom line is that he hasn't gotten it done in Win column.

In his line of work, that is ultimately what you are judged on.

I agree it is a MAJOR factor, but should it be the only criteria? Our APR has gone from so bad we were losing schollys to sitting near the top of the ACC. Our guys graduate, play good to moderately good defense, and rebound the heck outta the ball. It's not all doom and gloom - the wins have to start coming, but IMHO the close losses are writing on the wall that we are improving, and I would like to give him another year to try.

 

[dtm1997]

I agree it is a MAJOR factor, but should it be the only criteria? Our APR has gone from so bad we were losing schollys to sitting near the top of the ACC. Our guys graduate, play good to moderately good defense, and rebound the heck outta the ball. It's not all doom and gloom - the wins have to start coming, but IMHO the close losses are writing on the wall that we are improving, and I would like to give him another year to try.

It's not all doom & gloom, I agree. However, to play devil's advocate, imo, the close losses are a lack of ability in coaching & recruiting. Tough to say the writing is on the wall we're improving when you lose by 2 at VT when you had a 10 point lead with 5 minutes to go or a 7-9 point lead at home vs. FSU with 2-3 minutes to go. That's an inability to either have recruited a player that's a cold-blooded killer or get them in position to put their foot on an opponent's neck.

Cna't really just look at the box score and say close losses, must be playing well, just barely missing. Need to look at the overall game situations. That VT game really took the cake.

 

[Connell62]

Midtown, I know where you are coming from, but there is just too much risk in doing that. If we have another season where things don't pan out, we will be reloading, but we'll have very little to sell to recruits. As much as high level recruits want playing time as a freshman, the difference makers want an opportunity to compete for titles.

Ask anyone here and they will tell you that I am a glass half kind of guy, I've supported BG & staff the entire time that they have been here. IMO, he is just about everything that you could ask for in a head guy. He gets his players to graduate, he holds them accountable, and despite what many here think, I think that he understands the game well, but unfortunately all of that is not translating to success on the court. If you aren't winning, then all of the other stuff is overshadowed.

If I had to point to one thing that helped me arrive at the decision of supporting change is the constant close losses. Having been a part of many teams in my life, our inability to win is really troubling. Much of this is on the players (someone needs to step up and will us to victory), but by now, I feel like a winning staff should have gotten these guys to recognize these situations and figure out a way to win a close one. I certainly do not take any pleasure in advocating for a coaching change, but to me it seems pretty clear that the time is now.

 

[Peacone36]

Its not so much the losses as HOW we lose. Situational coaching, substitution patterns, when we call time outs, what defense we play in a particular situation against a particular team, fundamentals and development of players, effectiveness and adjustments out of timeouts, future prospects (recruiting).

All these things lead to losses, all these things arent things that just all of a sudden click and work. Its just bad coaching. There are plenty of coaches who can graduate kids, i dont think thats a reason to keep a coach, that will be something MBob looks for in a new coach. You can take that to the bank.

 

[dtm1997]

 

[MidtownJacket]

I hear you Connell - and appreciate the ability of most of this board to post dissenting opinions in a well thought out manner.

You are certainly right that we are not getting it done (both from a recruiting stance and record). I just am drawing attention to some of the positives. At the end of the Day MBob has a lot more experience, inside knowledge, and wisdom than I do - so will be happy to support whoever we have as HC next season.

I think most of us agree he does do some things well - and that he seems to be a standup guy. At the end of the day we need wins to validate our coaching staff and are not seeing them. I have said before I would like to see some new blood on the assistant level and give it another year (since he does do a lot of the HC roll so well) but understand not everyone shares the sunny optimism (read borderline GoldBlindness) I feel. I am also a cubs fan so - YMMV

I do think we have been seeing steady levels of improvement - but understand people wanting more (and frankly I do too)

 

[kg01]

@MidtownJacket you point out a great thing about this board. Not many agree totally but there aren't any knockdown dragout 'fights'. Unless you count that little tizzy between @connell62 and @Peacone36 a coupla months ago. Kidding, of course.

On CBG, I really think he'd be an excellent asst. HC or mid-major guy where the expectations are lower. As many have said, there are quite a few coaches that keep the academic side of things tidy while still winning. So, I certainly commend CBG for what he's done, I feel like that's the baseline in terms of achievement at GT.

 

[MidtownJacket]

@kg01 I follow you