CGC impact

Augusta_Jacket

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That was standard practice at Tech. Every weekend, except during football games, then it was only half full.

Speaking of football games, the only reason that 90% of Academy cadets go is because it is mandatory. :ROFLMAO:

Long weekends were the only time we were allowed to don civilian clothing to go off campus. Choosing to stay in uniform at the Library was a big sacrifice for academics.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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For perspective this years class is not horrible in the sense of avg rating of player. We just don't have the number of recruits. We rank 7th in the ACC in recruiting per average star ranking. If we remove the kicker and Biggers we are 5th in class rating quality. Just behind FSU, then behind miami, clemson, unc. This is where we should be every year. We should be in the top 5 year in and year out in the ACC on recruiting rating average. Some years jumping into the 2nd and 3rd spot.

View attachment 9731
This chart is telling. NC State had a pretty good year but simply cannot get out from under the UNC train. They have 1 four star while the Tar Heels have 11. The ACC is becoming a two tiered conference. There is the top tier of Notre Dame, Miami, Clemson, and UNC. Then, there is everyone else. I suppose one could make a case for Syracuse and Duke to have a bottom grouping all to themselves except that Syracuse beat us this year. The gap between the conference aristocracy and the peasants grows wider every year.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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Well obviously not because we have been overall a successful program - at times greatly exceeding our potential taking into account size of alumni base and spend. Whether we can win playing the same game the same way as everyone else is a different question. You gotta bring something different to the table. However, like smaller market baseball teams, any mistake in personnel can really hurt because you don’t have the cash to easily make it up. We can’t punt a bad coaching hire like Auburn, Texas, or UT. Look how it has hurt the bball program. That’s the main reason I hope CGC is successful, the downside if he’s not is too painful. But we gotta see something more than hype videos and uniform reveals this year. Weve really played two years of brutal football that has been of lower quality than the talent available. That has to change We need to do more with what we have than other programs and so far we’ve been on the other end of the scale. but that’s just an opinion
Even former elite factory teams cannot withstand multiple years of bad coaching. Eventually, it catches up to you. Exhibit A would be Tennessee. Always talented but the multiple disasters with Derek Dooley, Kiffin, etc. has finally toppled the Vols into a huge mess that will take the better part of a decade to recover. Florida has successive poor coaches with McElwain and Champ but have managed to still get good players in spite of Mullins being a less than engaging recruiter. Nebraska may never recover from their current malaise because like Tennessee they do not have a natural recruiting gold mine in their back yard. Winning is not everything in recruiting but it sure does help and we desperately need to win more than three or four next year.
 

Milwaukee

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Just going to leave this here.....no position on the matter.
“It would be unnecessary to automatically put Collins on the hot seat, even if Georgia Tech once again fails to fully break out. The motto remains process over result. Collins can be judged more fairly — and harshly — in 2022.”

This. As much as a couple people here are crying about “must have” results this season it just simply isn’t the case. 2022 is the “must have” as far as results, not 2021. If we break out this season it’s just icing.
 

boger2337

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“It would be unnecessary to automatically put Collins on the hot seat, even if Georgia Tech once again fails to fully break out. The motto remains process over result. Collins can be judged more fairly — and harshly — in 2022.”

This. As much as a couple people here are crying about “must have” results this season it just simply isn’t the case. 2022 is the “must have” as far as results, not 2021. If we break out this season it’s just icing.
I mean... I trust my opinion over some random 5th quarter writer. I also tend to trust my opinion of college football over 99.9% of college football "analysts".

Collins must break 6 games this year to keep any type of "juice" flowing. 3 years of 3 wins will be a trend not a rebuild. Even 5 wins is like kissing your ugly step sister.

This team has loads of talent. Top 5 ACC QB, top 5 ACC RB, possibly a top 5 LT in Cochran, top 3 DE in Domineck, and a top 5 CB in Swilling. The argument of this is Johnsons teams is all but gone as 80+% of his players are now gone. We have more 4 stars on this roster than we have had in a decade.

2019 class was the 7th best in the ACC in terms of avg star rating. 2020 was 5th best just behind FSU. 2021 is 7th right now as well. We should be finishing somewhere around 6-6 7-5 this year.

This isn't about will it ruin Collins career at Tech, it's more of it's reducing the potential peak he could have here. Diminishing return every year he can't gain more ground. The faster he can climb the higher the peak will get. Right now I am thinking ACC championship losses are all we can potentially see with him. If he can break 7 wins this year, there might be hope for an ACC championship. But winning 7+ games also means parlaying that with a LEGIT recruiting class, thinking top 15ish (Which is possible in the 2 class)

Pastner is going through the same thing on the BBall side. Hovered around .500 for a long time, and now his team is older with the right pieces. The recruiting is starting to fall in place as well. The men's Basketball team should be a 7 seed or better in the tourney this year.

Give Collins time, but also hold some hot coals to his butt. The faster he gets this going the better the higher the program will go long term.
 

Milwaukee

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I mean... I trust my opinion over some random 5th quarter writer. I also tend to trust my opinion of college football over 99.9% of college football "analysts".

Collins must break 6 games this year to keep any type of "juice" flowing. 3 years of 3 wins will be a trend not a rebuild. Even 5 wins is like kissing your ugly step sister.

This team has loads of talent. Top 5 ACC QB, top 5 ACC RB, possibly a top 5 LT in Cochran, top 3 DE in Domineck, and a top 5 CB in Swilling. The argument of this is Johnsons teams is all but gone as 80+% of his players are now gone. We have more 4 stars on this roster than we have had in a decade.

2019 class was the 7th best in the ACC in terms of avg star rating. 2020 was 5th best just behind FSU. 2021 is 7th right now as well. We should be finishing somewhere around 6-6 7-5 this year.

This isn't about will it ruin Collins career at Tech, it's more of it's reducing the potential peak he could have here. Diminishing return every year he can't gain more ground. The faster he can climb the higher the peak will get. Right now I am thinking ACC championship losses are all we can potentially see with him. If he can break 7 wins this year, there might be hope for an ACC championship. But winning 7+ games also means parlaying that with a LEGIT recruiting class, thinking top 15ish (Which is possible in the 2 class)

Pastner is going through the same thing on the BBall side. Hovered around .500 for a long time, and now his team is older with the right pieces. The recruiting is starting to fall in place as well. The men's Basketball team should be a 7 seed or better in the tourney this year.

Give Collins time, but also hold some hot coals to his butt. The faster he gets this going the better the higher the program will go long term.
Yea I’m more referring to the small amount of fans claiming its breakout or bust this year for Collins. Geoff surely is shooting for 8 wins this season but if for some reason we only hit 3 he isn’t losing his job yet.
 

yeti92

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Yea I’m more referring to the small amount of fans claiming its breakout or bust this year for Collins. Geoff surely is shooting for 8 wins this season but if for some reason we only hit 3 he isn’t losing his job yet.
Its breakout or bust in that, to keep any momentum going, he has to breakout this season. Yes he probably won't be fired this year if he busts, but recruiting would likely tank and the probability of him breaking out in year 4 would be very low. His fate would essentially be sealed unless he pulled off a 9+ win season in year 4.
 

stech81

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Yea I’m more referring to the small amount of fans claiming its breakout or bust this year for Collins. Geoff surely is shooting for 8 wins this season but if for some reason we only hit 3 he isn’t losing his job yet.
Hope we win more games but we still have a lot of young players and we have to hope we don't have too many injuries .
 

forensicbuzz

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Its breakout or bust in that, to keep any momentum going, he has to breakout this season. Yes he probably won't be fired this year if he busts, but recruiting would likely tank and the probability of him breaking out in year 4 would be very low. His fate would essentially be sealed unless he pulled off a 9+ win season in year 4.
This just doesn't even make sense. Year 3, 2 years of recruits (mostly freshmen and RS freshmen, with some sophomores), will still be a building year. Hope for more wins, but there won't be a drop in recruiting if the W/L record isn't great.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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It's worse at a service academy. There you are forced to participate in extracurricular activities that deprive you of study time. It wasn't uncommon to see the library full even on long weekend passes.

I know that, Augusta. My son graduated from USAFA, before his untimely death. GT, in the old days, was the closest to the academies, but you are right, we pale in comparison to the physical, emotional, and mental pressure these fine young people deal with while going to school. My son, along with many others attending these academies, are some of the strongest and best America has to offer, and they sacrifice a tremendous amount.
 

augustabuzz

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Yea I’m more referring to the small amount of fans claiming its breakout or bust this year for Collins. Geoff surely is shooting for 8 wins this season but if for some reason we only hit 3 he isn’t losing his job yet.
I agree. I doubt his job would be under pressure with a losing record, but his recruiting momentum would be jeopardized.
 

cthenrys

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I know that, Augusta. My son graduated from USAFA, before his untimely death. GT, in the old days, was the closest to the academies, but you are right, we pale in comparison to the physical, emotional, and mental pressure these fine young people deal with while going to school. My son, along with many others attending these academies, are some of the strongest and best America has to offer, and they sacrifice a tremendous amount.
100% correct. I had an appointment to USAFA and ended up going to GT. Convinced my best friend to go to USMA. He’s still my best friend but wouldn’t blame if he wasn’t. Different worlds then - completely so now.
 

yeti92

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This just doesn't even make sense. Year 3, 2 years of recruits (mostly freshmen and RS freshmen, with some sophomores), will still be a building year. Hope for more wins, but there won't be a drop in recruiting if the W/L record isn't great.
There will be a drop in recruiting if he goes 3-X again. There will also be a drop in attendance, fan support, and donations. 3 straight seasons of the worst football in over 20 years is something nobody wants to be associated with or watch.
 

forensicbuzz

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There will be a drop in recruiting if he goes 3-X again. There will also be a drop in attendance, fan support, and donations. 3 straight seasons of the worst football in over 20 years is something nobody wants to be associated with or watch.
I think you're wrong. Absolutely wrong. Dead wrong. The fans will *****, but there won't be a drop in recruiting. No improvement with his first class being juniors, then we might see an affect.
 

MountainBuzzMan

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I think you're wrong. Absolutely wrong. Dead wrong. The fans will *****, but there won't be a drop in recruiting. No improvement with his first class being juniors, then we might see an affect.
Thats why every opinion is similar, almost worthless. Just like mine. But I mostly agree with yeti92. I would put the floor to keep his recruiting momentum going at 6 wins and a really bad bowl if he can get that with 6 wins. But 3 seasons at 3,3,6 wins is a trend he is going to have trouble not attaching to his capabilities. I think he is a great recruiter but a very sub par coach. So far he has yet to demonstrate that he is improving as a coach.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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Thats why every opinion is similar, almost worthless. Just like mine. But I mostly agree with yeti92. I would put the floor to keep his recruiting momentum going at 6 wins and a really bad bowl if he can get that with 6 wins. But 3 seasons at 3,3,6 wins is a trend he is going to have trouble not attaching to his capabilities. I think he is a great recruiter but a very sub par coach. So far he has yet to demonstrate that he is improving as a coach.
And even if he turns out to be an “average” HC, GT needs more, because even if he surprises with consistent top 25 recruiting (TBD), he still needs to be a top 10% HC to get us where we want to be. Like you, I’m very dubious so far about him even being average as a HC, but maybe he will actually surprise us all.
 

GoldZ

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“It would be unnecessary to automatically put Collins on the hot seat, even if Georgia Tech once again fails to fully break out. The motto remains process over result. Collins can be judged more fairly — and harshly — in 2022.”

This. As much as a couple people here are crying about “must have” results this season it just simply isn’t the case. 2022 is the “must have” as far as results, not 2021. If we break out this season it’s just icing.
As I have said before, imo, how we are playing in late Oct to mid Nov in 2021 will speak volumes. If we still shoot ourselves in the foot with penalties and turnovers at that point, then even top 20 classes won't help us because we have a coaching issue. Otoh, if we look sharp and are just outplayed by better players, then I believe we are on our way to much better times. No need to wait until the end of 2022 to know. AlabamaBuzz has it mostly right. It may not require a top 10% HC, as a top 20% might do just fine with top 25 classes. Fifth year overall as a HC should tell the tale (greatest transition in CFB history or not).
 

MountainBuzzMan

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And even if he turns out to be an “average” HC, GT needs more, because even if he surprises with consistent top 25 recruiting (TBD), he still needs to be a top 10% HC to get us where we want to be. Like you, I’m very dubious so far about him even being average as a HC, but maybe he will actually surprise us all.
I do really want him to succeed, No one is born a good coach. I do think he can improve, he will just have to Want to be a better coach, not just a good/great recruiter. The want makes you look at yourself and face some harsh realities. Then you can improve.
 
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