Can we stay competitive in the NIL era?

[4shotB]

To the original question in the title of this thread:

NO, in a big way, NO

I tend to agree with and suspect most others do as well. The next question is...do we WANT to be competitive in this era? IMO, neither the admin nor the bulk of the fanbase have the will, means or desire to do so. I include myself in amongst that group. I think navigating a new course is going to be compelling. our dreaded action plan of "do nothing and put our head in the sand" will be the kiss of death for the program.

 

[bobongo]

1. On one hand, if you have cases of pay-for-play that the NCAA couldn’t find or couldn’t prove, then they’re still enforcing the principle of no-pay-for-play. What’s in question is how effective NCAA enforcement is, not whether the principle still holds in most cases. This is “Pay for play is not allowed, it is rare, and it is contained to a few rule-breakers who will be sanctioned if caught”.
2. On the other hand (this “new hand”), if the NCAA sees pay-for-play out in the open and does nothing, then they’ve abandoned the principle. This is the “pay-for-play is the de facto rule for major sports” case.

Likewise, the NCAA has drawn a number of lines in the sand, then walked over to and sat in a beach chair and watched as people ignore them.

What are the real rules now?

I am asking this because I don't know the answer: Amid all the myriad state laws that have been passed legalizing NIL money, what can the NCAA legally do to enforce the rules, such as the rule that money can't be attached to a specific school?

It used to be that they were allowed to make their own rules governing college football, before state legislatures got involved. Now it seems the legal ground has gotten rocky, and they could run afoul of state law if they tried to enforce their own rules. I know in the past the NCAA looked the other way when they should have acted, but I'm just wondering what the NCAA can do about it now that legislatures have stuck their butts into it, assuming they would even want to.

 

[JacketFan137]

To the original question in the title of this thread:

NO, in a big way, NO

i think it’s crazy how since this thread has been posted the NIL game has seemingly changed and evolved to get more insane. i think the jordan addison deal is setting a really scary precedent and this is gonna have to get regulated soon. maybe guys aren’t NIL eligible until 1 year after entering the portal? something but right now i feel like i’m watching the wolf of wall street in college football and some really dirty money is being moved lol

something just has to be done cause texas, miami, usc, etc are fixing to buy their way back into relevance lol

 

[slugboy]

I am asking this because I don't know the answer: Amid all the myriad state laws that have been passed legalizing NIL money, what can the NCAA legally do to enforce the rules, such as the rule that money can't be attached to a specific school?

It used to be that they were allowed to make their own rules governing college football, before state legislatures got involved. Now it seems the legal ground has gotten rocky, and they could run afoul of state law if they tried to enforce their own rules. I know in the past the NCAA looked the other way when they should have acted, but I'm just wondering what the NCAA can do about it now that legislatures have stuck their butts into it, assuming they would even want to.

Here’s the header of California’s law. Others seem similar (https://spry.so/nil-state-guide/california-nil-law-for-ncaa/). You’d need a lawyer to argue the difference between NIL and “pay”.
I’m not a lawyer, but

• Major sports have anti-trust exemptions so they can have “standard” contracts and rules. That seems to be critically wounded in college.
• That lack of rules now makes college sports the Wild West
• I think the NCAA and member schools needs to figure out contracts and benefits and pay, because if the other laws are like California’s, it’ll be hard to find a legal distinction between pay and NIL.
• Unless Congress does something, there’s nothing to stop Texas from giving athletes in their state an advantage; then Alabama escalates, and so on until there’s no room to even cap a roster
• A nit: the NCAA can’t willingly turn a blind eye to a violation or they may legally lose the power to enforce the rule. In cases where they’ve been stymied, schools like UNC won their cases with lawyers.
• SMU’s Pony Express was nearly 40 years ago. Then, it was a death penalty. Now, it’s a different story.
• I find it ironic that employers can put non-compete contracts in front of a regular joe, and state laws support that, but college athletics is now the opposite. (I think non-competes hurt the states that enable them, but in this case my point is that it seems easier in some ways to poach a college player than many other types of employee, where it was much harder 5 years ago. It’s more difficult in the pros by far. The rules are so unsettled that people are confused)

(a) (1) A postsecondary educational institution shall not uphold any rule, requirement, standard, or other limitation that prevents a student of that institution participating in intercollegiate athletics from earning compensation as a result of the use of the student’s name, image, likeness, or athletic reputation. Earning compensation from the use of a student’s name, image, likeness, or athletic reputation shall not affect the student’s scholarship eligibility.

(2) An athletic association, conference, or other group or organization with authority over intercollegiate athletics, including, but not limited to, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, shall not prevent a student of a postsecondary educational institution participating in intercollegiate athletics from earning compensation as a result of the use of the student’s name, image, likeness, or athletic reputation

 

[bobongo]

(a) (1) A postsecondary educational institution shall not uphold any rule, requirement, standard, or other limitation that prevents a student of that institution participating in intercollegiate athletics from earning compensation as a result of the use of the student’s name, image, likeness, or athletic reputation. Earning compensation from the use of a student’s name, image, likeness, or athletic reputation shall not affect the student’s scholarship eligibility.

(2) An athletic association, conference, or other group or organization with authority over intercollegiate athletics, including, but not limited to, the National Collegiate Athletic Association, shall not prevent a student of a postsecondary educational institution participating in intercollegiate athletics from earning compensation as a result of the use of the student’s name, image, likeness, or athletic reputation

I'm no lawyer, but it sounds like the NCAA might be hampered by state law from enforcing its rules about tying compensation to a particular school, unless there's some other clause allowing an exception for the NCAA to do so.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Don’t like some of the language, but glad some people are seeing it. FYI, herbstreit retweeted this.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

 

[orientalnc]

The NCAA is a voluntary association. The NCAA can make rules governing competition between NCAA members that require voluntary agreement to follow those rules. The colleges can require that athletes voluntarily agree to abide by the rules the schools are required follow in competition between NCAA member schools. I think the NCAA has abdicated its ability to establish and enforce, as a group of member universtites, rules governing athletic competition between members. No college or athlete is forced to join the NCAA or compete for a member institution. I do not understand why the NCAA does not simply enforce their rules fairly and consistently.

If an athlete wants to market himself/herself while in college, go for it. But athletes doing so cannot compete as amateurs. There are professional sports leagues galore and the NCAA should direct those would be professionals to the appropriate leagues. NIL is equivalent to getting paid to be an athlete. This should not be difficult.

The difficult part is the enomous sums of money the NCAA and its members collect from the public to present, broadcast, and stream the competitive events. If the athletes voluntarily agree to compete without compensation, even when paid by entities outside the control of the member colleges, then they do not have a legitimate complaint.

Notice the consistent use of the word "voluntarily." As a legal matter, that is important. Whether it's the NCAA or some replacement organization, there will be rules the members and their athletes have to follow. Quibble, if you wish, that the rules are inappropriate or unenforced, but the rules are agreed to by all parties. The fact that the NCAA has become a defacto entry point to professional sports is not the fault of the rules governing NCAA competition and eligibilty.

If the NCAA disappeared next week, what would you change while establishing a replacement?

 

[slugboy]

Stewart Mandel has reworded the “what’s best for the fans” phrasing

 

[WreckinGT]

These are not massive changes. Massive changes are coming for sure (expanded conferences, expanded playoffs, etc) but NIL and the portal are not massive changes. USC bought players in the past (hi Reggie) and they are buying players now. What’s so massive about that? We got Tashard Choice via transfer and lost Gibbs via transfer. What’s so massive about those?

So we are now to the point where everytime a higher level player transfers it’s freak out time? Listen, the WR at Pittsburgh just lost his QB to the draft. And he sees USC hire Riley who is an offensive guru in college. Those are enough reasons to transfer let alone money. Look at Gibbs. He gave us a solid effort over 2 years and GT never got him a better OLine or a QB who could throw. He gets a call about Bama and he’d be stupid not to go regardless of NIL.

Auburn bought Cam, USC bought half their team to win, UGA, Bama, and Clemson have been buying players for decades yet now it’s freak out time? I just don’t get that reasoning.

5 years ago, there is little to no chance that Gibbs or Addison transfer for their 3rd and final year. That alone shows how massive these changes are. The new ability of the money teams to publicly buy the best players from other P5 programs and have them eligible immediately is a very massive change.

 

[JacketFan137]

5 years ago, there is little to no chance that Gibbs or Addison transfer for their 3rd and final year. That alone shows how massive these changes are. The new ability of the money teams to publicly buy the best players from other P5 programs and have them eligible immediately is a very massive change.

i think the big issue is NIL and transfer portal bring a thing at the same time with no one in charge thinking of the consequences. i think both have great intentions and could have existed together but they needed to have rules regarding the two combined.

i think rather than sitting a year for transferring you should be ineligible for NIL for 1 year. or cap it or something. otherwise it’s going to completely f up college football and this addison thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Vespidae]

i think the big issue is NIL and transfer portal bring a thing at the same time with no one in charge thinking of the consequences. i think both have great intentions and could have existed together but they needed to have rules regarding the two combined.

i think rather than sitting a year for transferring you should be ineligible for NIL for 1 year. or cap it or something. otherwise it’s going to completely f up college football and this addison thing is just the tip of the iceberg.

I'm increasingly of the opinion to make it unrestricted. But, along with that, SPA's (student professional athletes) have to pay for tuition, room, board and athletic department expenses (coaches, weight room, etc).

The system as it stands now sticks schools and boosters with the costs and SPA's with no skin in the game. That's not sustainable.

 

[g0lftime]

They are actually being paid now through tuition, books, tutoring , meals etc. Now may be time to tax that as income.

 

[CEB]

Stewart Mandel has reworded the “what’s best for the fans” phrasing

And by “the product” what he really means is the NCAA itself. I feel like 90% of what they do is “symbolic” in nature to maintain their own status. They need to stay relevant without biting the hand that feeds them. They sit on their self proclaimed moral high ground and make examples of the little guys and vow to do the same to the big guys if they ever catch them...wink, wink.
If they solve this NIL mess, they may buy themselves another decade or two. Otherwise a lot of guys in Indy might consider taking home a few personal items each evening.

 

[slugboy]

They are actually being paid now through tuition, books, tutoring , meals etc. Now may be time to tax that as income.

At a state level, I don't think anyone will want to put their universities at a recruiting disadvantage vs other states that don't tax those benefits.
At a national level, I don't see anyone pushing that as a law. Even if players wanting money is unpopular, the NCAA administration is still less popular.
If athletes get these benefits taxed, in some ways it further strengthens the argument that they should be paid. And if it's a job, why even go to class and get tutoring?

And by “the product” what he really means is the NCAA itself. I feel like 90% of what they do is “symbolic” in nature to maintain their own status. They need to stay relevant without biting the hand that feeds them. They sit on their self proclaimed moral high ground and make examples of the little guys and vow to do the same to the big guys if they ever catch them...wink, wink.
If they solve this NIL mess, they may buy themselves another decade or two. Otherwise a lot of guys in Indy might consider taking home a few personal items each evening.

I suspect he thinks the product = ratings/interesting TV/sustainable and profitable business model. More than that, Mandel is using squishy language because his original opinion was hammered effectively by nearly everyone and he's trying to recover after putting his foot in his mouth.
It'd be a lot easier and more effective for him to say "well, I screwed that one up" and move on.
I'm not sure what's going to happen with the NCAA. Maybe they'll decline gradually, then suddenly [Thanks Hemingway]. Maybe they'll transform. So far, they've shown little sign of adapting to a new reality.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

5 years ago, there is little to no chance that Gibbs or Addison transfer for their 3rd and final year. That alone shows how massive these changes are. The new ability of the money teams to publicly buy the best players from other P5 programs and have them eligible immediately is a very massive change.

That’s because they would have had to sit out a year. That has nothing to do with NIL but the transfer rule. Once they changed the transfer rule to not having to sit a year you had hundreds of players transferring but we only hear of the top players.

 

[jayparr]

I tend to agree with and suspect most others do as well. The next question is...do we WANT to be competitive in this era? IMO, neither the admin nor the bulk of the fanbase have the will, means or desire to do so. I include myself in amongst that group. I think navigating a new course is going to be compelling. our dreaded action plan of "do nothing and put our head in the sand" will be the kiss of death for the program.

Did we not just get there this last fb season?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

The NCAA is a voluntary association. The NCAA can make rules governing competition between NCAA members that require voluntary agreement to follow those rules. The colleges can require that athletes voluntarily agree to abide by the rules the schools are required follow in competition between NCAA member schools. I think the NCAA has abdicated its ability to establish and enforce, as a group of member universtites, rules governing athletic competition between members. No college or athlete is forced to join the NCAA or compete for a member institution. I do not understand why the NCAA does not simply enforce their rules fairly and consistently.

If an athlete wants to market himself/herself while in college, go for it. But athletes doing so cannot compete as amateurs. There are professional sports leagues galore and the NCAA should direct those would be professionals to the appropriate leagues. NIL is equivalent to getting paid to be an athlete. This should not be difficult.

The difficult part is the enomous sums of money the NCAA and its members collect from the public to present, broadcast, and stream the competitive events. If the athletes voluntarily agree to compete without compensation, even when paid by entities outside the control of the member colleges, then they do not have a legitimate complaint.

Notice the consistent use of the word "voluntarily." As a legal matter, that is important. Whether it's the NCAA or some replacement organization, there will be rules the members and their athletes have to follow. Quibble, if you wish, that the rules are inappropriate or unenforced, but the rules are agreed to by all parties. The fact that the NCAA has become a defacto entry point to professional sports is not the fault of the rules governing NCAA competition and eligibilty.

If the NCAA disappeared next week, what would you change while establishing a replacement?

This is all true, but you can’t be serious when you asked above “I do not understand why the NCAA does not simply enforce their rules fairly or consistently.” This is the entire crux of the past 70 years (using 1950 as a random point in time) of this corrupt organization. I figured this out when I was 10 years old and asked the simple question on New Years Day, “why are the big games #1 vs. #7 and #2 vs. #12?

It’s because the NCAA ,the bowl system, and now playoff system are corrupt. They should be fair but when you have family members of NCAA personnel getting free luxury box tickets in Tuscalossa, Athens, South Bend, LA, Austin who do you think they won’t investigate? And when bowl committees offer trips, Tix, etc, and they want a match up of 2 big names you’ll get ND vs. Colorado in Miami while GT plays Nebraska 200 miles north of there.

The NCAA is and has been a joke and needs to be disbanded. Then the President’s of the schools need to get together and hire a bunch of Pakistani’s to run the sport who care nothing for the sport. That’s the only way you’ll ever get fairness is having the cops not care about the sport. Take away temptation and you’ll get fair rulings. Put me in charge and I’ll be as corrupt as they are now - free trips every Saturday, Tix and food any time, etc. Put me in charge of soccer and since I don’t know one team or one person associated give me the facts and I’ll make a just ruling. I still love the sport because I accepted the corruptness when I was about the age of 10. Now, I root for my GT uniform and then the underdog in the other games.

 

[CEB]

At a state level, I don't think anyone will want to put their universities at a recruiting disadvantage vs other states that don't tax those benefits.
At a national level, I don't see anyone pushing that as a law. Even if players wanting money is unpopular, the NCAA administration is still less popular.
If athletes get these benefits taxed, in some ways it further strengthens the argument that they should be paid. And if it's a job, why even go to class and get tutoring?


I suspect he thinks the product = ratings/interesting TV/sustainable and profitable business model. More than that, Mandel is using squishy language because his original opinion was hammered effectively by nearly everyone and he's trying to recover after putting his foot in his mouth.
It'd be a lot easier and more effective for him to say "well, I screwed that one up" and move on.
I'm not sure what's going to happen with the NCAA. Maybe they'll decline gradually, then suddenly [Thanks Hemingway]. Maybe they'll transform. So far, they've shown little sign of adapting to a new reality.

“Profitable business model...” The question is WHO is profiting. The schools are going to get theirs regardless. The NCAA model was a nice way to “level” the field and share funds across sports, but a better model is emerging (at least for the big boys) so NCAA will have to adapt or be cast off. IMO, I think there’s a lot invested in the NCAA model and I think it’s far more feasible for an alliance of big boy schools to transcend the NCAA rather than disband it. The remaining schools and the NCAA will cobble back together a more traditional model of pseudo-amateur college athletics. There will be a large chunk of the revenue pie missing at that point though... and that’s where their self preservation effort will be directed.

 

[WreckinGT]

That’s because they would have had to sit out a year. That has nothing to do with NIL but the transfer rule. Once they changed the transfer rule to not having to sit a year you had hundreds of players transferring but we only hear of the top players.

The transfer rule is probably the biggest change but It still has to do with NIL. Unless you believe Addison was going to transfer to USC even if they didn't offer him 2-3 million dollars. There were rumors of other big schools trying to get Addison before USC came into the picture with their truck load of cash. Apparently they weren't offering enough.