Can we stay competitive in the NIL era?

[awbuzz]

It’s now not enough to get the $100,000 payment to come to a school, you have to pay up again or the player is transferring.
https://amp.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article260883402.html

**** him and those like him. Go to the G League and be done with it. This is an example of another nail in the college sports coffin.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Yea I will attend more GT softball games this year than football and basketball combined.

You don’t think the same thing is happening in high level softball? My daughter played 2 years of travel softball and it’s the exact same scene as AAU hoops, travel baseball, and football camps. Sure, the money, perks, and back door deals are scaled down but it’s the exact same system, So you may as well as watch football because softball, volleyball, etc are not pure. There are still deals, academic exceptions, and everything else. Unfortunately, in todays world any sport above 8th grade is corrupted. I know multiple high school baseball players who were “adopted by family members” so they could attend a different high school than the one their parents are zoned for. Saw several football players do the same thing so they could attend Colquitt County under Rush. And yes, I’ve seen softball players transfer high schools as well. I’ve accepted this a long time ago. I find it interesting that folks are just now freaking out. I recently had a conversation with the dad of a high end baseball player at Auburn. I asked him what his son was majoring in and looking to do after graduation. He looked at me like I was crazy and all he said was baseball. It was very awkward.

 

[MidtownJacket]

Because if they weren’t football players they would never been able to get into GT and take the spot of a non-charade student. My point is all this is a charade. Instead of having every student get accepted on academic merits and then picking 85 to create the team we play the same game UGA plays which is lowering the bar for this special group. The problem is we pretend (like some of the previous posts) that we don’t.

You even said that there are players who get into other schools that wouldn’t get in here. Why the heck not? If we are going to lower the bar to start then do it right and take anyone who is good at football. Right now we bring in players who take spots from kids with 1400s yet we have become mediocre and have been a long time. If we are going to do it then do it freaking right and not halfway. Think of all the stud football players from the Atlanta area we could have won with if we didn’t do it half way.

And the idea that just because they attend classes and get degrees means it’s fair is ridiculous. All the students who were denied entrance in order to lower the bar also could have attended classes and got degrees. I just would have thought GT fans were smart enough to see a scam system. The entire system is bring in players to your school to entertain the alum and bring in money. It has nothing to do with helping the player or anything. It’s money. Are we happy with this as alum? Are we being entertained? We are a perfect case study of a school doing it all wrong. We should either let in any player (Cam’s, Herschel’s, etc) or join the Ivy League. Playing the middle has led us nowhere but down.

Not trying to throw rocks here - but do you feel the same about the pathway for legacy students having conditional acceptance if they come in as sophomores?

I don't think anyone would argue that student athletes have a different bar for entrance (in the same way Conditional Acceptance allows transfers a MUCH easier way in) but that doesn't cheapen their academic experience once they get here. Yeah, they get tutors and assistance but they also aren't slipping by without being able to read or do college level math.

 

[slugboy]

There’s “can we keep up?” and there’s “can the system even continue like this?”. NCAA sports aren’t set up for free agency. I can change jobs next Tuesday, but athletes can’t transfer like that. The NCAA doesn’t have the free agency and trade rules that you’d see in the NBA or MLB, etc.
The NBA marketplace looks better ordered than college sports.
The NCAA has built rules and calendars around athletes not getting paid, and they’re having to retrofit for athletes getting paid and having choices.
In some ways, it seems like the NCAA is trying to adapt to athletes getting halfway paid and halfway having choices. The Supreme Court seems to be saying “this is a job” while we still think it’s an after school activity. How can you be halfway professional?
Emmert is retiring, and there’s a whole new committee figuring out a new NCAA that needs to work on mostly different principles. I’m not sure they realize how drastic the changes might have to be.
And if Alabama and Notre Dame are alarmed, then any school could have trouble adapting.



we’re back to this, and then some

 

[Billygoat91]

I am all for NIL deals, but any sport that is handing out NIL deals to athletes should not receive funds from the athletics fees paid by everyday students ,many of whom get no benefit or are not involved in any way with the athletics program.

 

[bobongo]

There’s “can we keep up?” and there’s “can the system even continue like this?”. NCAA sports aren’t set up for free agency. I can change jobs next Tuesday, but athletes can’t transfer like that. The NCAA doesn’t have the free agency and trade rules that you’d see in the NBA or MLB, etc.
The NBA marketplace looks better ordered than college sports.
The NCAA has built rules and calendars around athletes not getting paid, and they’re having to retrofit for athletes getting paid and having choices.
In some ways, it seems like the NCAA is trying to adapt to athletes getting halfway paid and halfway having choices. The Supreme Court seems to be saying “this is a job” while we still think it’s an after school activity. How can you be halfway professional?
Emmert is retiring, and there’s a whole new committee figuring out a new NCAA that needs to work on mostly different principles. I’m not sure they realize how drastic the changes might have to be.
And if Alabama and Notre Dame are alarmed, then any school could have trouble adapting.



we’re back to this, and then some

I can imagine what a daunting prospect it is for the NCAA to try to have uniform rules governing a myriad of various new state laws allowing NIL payments.
I don't give any slack to the NCAA for its uneven enforcement of the rules in the past, but I do understand their difficulties grappling with NIL regulation.

 

[WreckinGT]

This starts an interesting reflection for me. It was my love of football (playing GrayY or whatever it was called) that caused me to see a Dodd team as a child. Fell in love with the old gold and white. All my support for Tech sports is derivative of that first love.

If I quit following football at all levels (almost there) and quit following basket ball, it will probably start me on a slippery slope to abandoning all spectator sports. Though I will probably always watch The Masters each year.

But realistically I will probably think of Tech in ways other than sports.

Final note is that I worried before the start of last season that uga would end up being national champs. I saw no way anyone would beat them except Alabama and I knew they couldn’t beat them twice. It was another weird season with Covid hangover and the deaths of colleagues. I watched virtually no bowl games and watched the playoffs in piecemeal fashion. The only game I watched in earnest was the championship hoping against hope that Bama would save us from a national nightmare. But the dirtier and more dishonest program of the two came out on top. Yay dogs.

The last three years have killed much of my love for the game and I’m even forgetting so much of what I used to know about it. It’s just not fun anymore.

I am in a similar mindset but I still enjoy pro sports, so most of my attention is migrating that way. If college sports are just going to be pro sports with less talent and less parity then im not really interested to be honest.

 

[RhoChi]

Wow, just saw the Miami basketball player news. That is just such a stunning statement. I get a lot of student-athletes see the professional sports as the end goal, but do so many of them only see college as nothing more than a glorified training camp now? Do they not see the value in getting a degree (FOR FREE ON SCHOLARSHIP) and how small of a chance statistically there is to make it to the professional teams? I'm all for betting on yourself and trying to make it as far as you can, I think it can do a lot of great things to never give up (look at Jose Alvarado). But I think there is a limit to delusion. Where one must realize that the value of a degree may outlast and be potentially worth more than your athleticism. There will always be freak of nature athletes that probably never will make use of any educational degree since they'll always have a place in sports, but for the vast majority that isn't the case. Weird times we live in.

 

[Vespidae]

There’s “can we keep up?” and there’s “can the system even continue like this?”. NCAA sports aren’t set up for free agency. I can change jobs next Tuesday, but athletes can’t transfer like that. The NCAA doesn’t have the free agency and trade rules that you’d see in the NBA or MLB, etc.
The NBA marketplace looks better ordered than college sports.
The NCAA has built rules and calendars around athletes not getting paid, and they’re having to retrofit for athletes getting paid and having choices.
In some ways, it seems like the NCAA is trying to adapt to athletes getting halfway paid and halfway having choices. The Supreme Court seems to be saying “this is a job” while we still think it’s an after school activity. How can you be halfway professional?
Emmert is retiring, and there’s a whole new committee figuring out a new NCAA that needs to work on mostly different principles. I’m not sure they realize how drastic the changes might have to be.
And if Alabama and Notre Dame are alarmed, then any school could have trouble adapting.



we’re back to this, and then some

There was an interesting guest on the Paul Finebaum Show today who had visited 13-14 teams during their spring games. His assessment? It's the Wild West. No one ... none ... know what to do. The NCAA has had a massive failure of leadership and lacks ANY vision as to what college sports SHOULD be. So they are left responding to this congressional committee meeting or that lawsuit. He added that the NCAA governance model is comprised of university presidents ... none of which have any experience in managing big time sports. The result is the debacle that is unfolding before us.

His assessment? We will eventually end up with a P2 (instead of P5) college program with maybe Clemson and Southern Cal. The rest will drop down into another division. The split is massive and expanding.

 

[4shotB]

I am in a similar mindset but I still enjoy pro sports, so most of my attention is migrating that way. If college sports are just going to be pro sports with less talent and less parity then im not really interested to be honest.

This is my minset now. I used to be indifferent to pro sports but always admired the NFL model. I may give up on the college game and start focusing on the NFL going forward. I have tickets to the Ole Miss game with several of my Tech buddies and very well think this may be the last game I attend/watch.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Not trying to throw rocks here - but do you feel the same about the pathway for legacy students having conditional acceptance if they come in as sophomores?

I don't think anyone would argue that student athletes have a different bar for entrance (in the same way Conditional Acceptance allows transfers a MUCH easier way in) but that doesn't cheapen their academic experience once they get here. Yeah, they get tutors and assistance but they also aren't slipping by without being able to read or do college level math.

Different situations. Requiring students who apply thru regular admission to conduct more academic work and then accepting them based on this academic work is much different than telling a kid with a NCAA minimum score to come on in because they entertain the alumni 12 Saturdays a year. That’s my point - we all know it’s a joke and yet many spend energy trying to defend and justify it and say GT players are different. I use to defend it too. I’ve said this before but my eyes were opened when I was a GT student and had several management classes with many members of the lethal weapon three Final Four team. I loved screaming for them but they were in no way even in the same ballpark as regular students.

And I’m totally advocating for letting them all in. I want to win so if we make exceptions can we at least get in a Cam Newton type QB and some Herschel’s? In other words play the game the right way and not this half way crap we’ve been doing. All this half way stuff has gotten us into the lower quarter of P5 teams and when realignment happens and we are left out we’ll have no one to blame but ourselves. Right now, a top tier hoops player just set his price. Why don’t we go get him and win some games? Instead, we’ll say how terrible it is.

Lastly, regarding the conditional transfer being easier, the entire admission process for the high end kids is just random. At my kids private schools I’ve seen kids with lower SAT and GPA get accepted into GT over kids with higher and I’ve seen these higher kids get the transfer offer. It’s another crazy topic to discuss.

 

[TooTall]

There was an interesting guest on the Paul Finebaum Show today who had visited 13-14 teams during their spring games. His assessment? It's the Wild West. No one ... none ... know what to do. The NCAA has had a massive failure of leadership and lacks ANY vision as to what college sports SHOULD be. So they are left responding to this congressional committee meeting or that lawsuit. He added that the NCAA governance model is comprised of university presidents ... none of which have any experience in managing big time sports. The result is the debacle that is unfolding before us.

His assessment? We will eventually end up with a P2 (instead of P5) college program with maybe Clemson and Southern Cal. The rest will drop down into another division. The split is massive and expanding.

Not too terribly often I agree with you 100%, but this is one of those times. California gave the NCAA ####MULTIPLE YEARS#### to get ahead of the NIL and they did nothing! But what did we expect when their biggest sport's (FBS football) championship has been ran by other cooperation's and never by the NCAA itself. I cant wait until it's 25 member BIG10 & $EC and then everyone else. Are we, or do we, want to be in that 50?

 

[slugboy]

There was an interesting guest on the Paul Finebaum Show today who had visited 13-14 teams during their spring games. His assessment? It's the Wild West. No one ... none ... know what to do. The NCAA has had a massive failure of leadership and lacks ANY vision as to what college sports SHOULD be. So they are left responding to this congressional committee meeting or that lawsuit. He added that the NCAA governance model is comprised of university presidents ... none of which have any experience in managing big time sports. The result is the debacle that is unfolding before us.

His assessment? We will eventually end up with a P2 (instead of P5) college program with maybe Clemson and Southern Cal. The rest will drop down into another division. The split is massive and expanding.

It might have been said earlier in one of these threads, but a lot of the incentives for ADs and University Presidents and the NCAA are to wait and change as little as possible until they’re forced to. Every system for compliance is designed around amateurism. If an Athletic Department prematurely moves to a “professional” footing, then the NCAA might crack down on them. If the University Presidents and NCAA move too quickly, they might make concessions that, in retrospect, they might not have been required to make. While it’s easy for us to sit on the sidelines and look at the University Presidents as clueless buffoons, they’re essentially negotiating the future of a multi-billion dollar enterprise with tight ties to their campuses and institutions and alumni giving. They’re trying to keep their opening bids for change as small as possible with as little disruption and damage as possible.
I’m not saying they’re not screwing this up, but I also don’t know who wouldn’t screw this up.
The current fig leaf is that players aren’t getting paid for being athletes, but that’s already wearing thin. I don’t know if the NCAA is doing a good job policing “pay for play”. We’ve already noted some instances where NIL is clearly pay for play, and if the NCAA does nothing in those few cases then they may cede that ground either legally or practically. At some point, someone is going to be able to prove that a player was given NIL assurances by another team before going into the portal. At that point, some players are professional
Then, if the players are professional, but they still have to be student-athletes, do you give them incentive bonuses for going to class and getting good grades? How viable is “going to class and making sufficient progress towards a bachelor’s degree” as a condition of employment?
The NCAA's amateurism policy was hard to defend, and they failed to defend it. Now, a lot that was based on amateurism is unraveling and they don't have anything else to put on. Maybe everything falls apart.

 

[JacketFan137]

there is a VERY strong rumor Addison (stud WR from pittsburgh and future round 1 pick) has transferred to usc on a massive NIL deal. college football is an arms race and now i’m getting to the point idk if we can compete

 

[WreckinGT]

there is a VERY strong rumor Addison (stud WR from pittsburgh and future round 1 pick) has transferred to usc on a massive NIL deal. college football is an arms race and now i’m getting to the point idk if we can compete

USC also got Eric Gentry today from Arizona St. A freshman All American this year. It's rumored he got an NIL deal in the mid 6 figures.

 

[orientalnc]

USC also got Eric Gentry today from Arizona St. A freshman All American this year. It's rumored he got an NIL deal in the mid 6 figures.

I believe the word should be speculated rather than rumored.

 

[orientalnc]

I am sure Gentry will help USC, but I believe the poobahs that unleashed the NIL era thought people would make rational business decisions based on value recieved in return for the NIL dollors spent. There is no way that is happening. Kids are being paid to play.

 

[ChicagobasedJacket]

This is my minset now. I used to be indifferent to pro sports but always admired the NFL model. I may give up on the college game and start focusing on the NFL going forward. I have tickets to the Ole Miss game with several of my Tech buddies and very well think this may be the last game I attend/watch.

The NFL tries to institute parity which gives fans hope hence it’s by far the most popular sport. I would suggest you maybe not quit being a Tech fan but temper your expectations.

 

[4shotB]

The NFL tries to institute parity which gives fans hope hence it’s by far the most popular sport. I would suggest you maybe not quit being a Tech fan but temper your expectations.

Like most rational GT fans, my expectations have always been somewhat realistic. Like many others here, I am grabbling with the massive changes to the game and how it will impact my interest in it going forward. If I abandon ship, which is a possibilty, it will be because of the cumulative effect of all the changes to the structure of the game and not just our recent 5-6 year stretch of really bad football. As others have alluded to, if we are going to watch professional football, let's watch the best. I have never been to a minor league baseball game or a Korn Ferry golf tournament I have seen MLB games in 6-7 cities and a dozen or more PGA events. One possible turn of events that might keep me entertained is if there is a restructuring of the divisions so that teams with similar goals (and budgets) can compete on somewhat similar footing.

BTW, these things don't effect only us bottom feeders. My brother is a Ohio State alum. My golfing buddy is a ND alum and has season tickets even though we are 9 hours away. They too are questioning where they are as fans going forward. BTW, the ND guy is supportive of deemphasizing FB at his school and joining the ranks of teams like NW, Duke, Vandy, Tech, etc. in a separate division. My brother understands that this isn't happening at his school any more than it would at Oklahoma or Alabama. Maybe the disenchmant is a function of age as we all fall in the 60 -70 year age group.

 

[slugboy]

I posted a CBS writeup of the Wong/Pack/Ruiz Miami NIL basketball flap in the basketball forum here:
Post in thread 'College Basketball NIL Discussion'
https://gtswarm.com/threads/college-basketball-nil-discussion.25074/post-875127

Norlander explains Wong's side of things and

1. makes Wong's demand for more money sound more sympathetic because Miami just (indirectly) paid Pack more to transfer in than Wong was getting for already being there
2. writes about the impact of openly demanding pay for play
3. writes about representatives (basically agents) pushing bidding wars for players in the portal and sharing what the opening bid is expected to be