Can Georgia Tech win a National Championship with CPJ?

[Vespidae]

That's not necessarily true. The majority of programs don't make money and has yielded limited if ineffective results.

The study didn't look at that. It looked at the value of a winning sports program to a school. Harvard Business School did a study of 117 schools and wrote a paper in 2015 that concluded that ...

"We do find, however, that past athletic success carries over significantly to the present in both football and basketball, suggesting the significance of the long-term monetary effect of athletic success to many academic institutions in the United States."

In other words, winning programs are better for schools than losing programs and the more consistent the winning, the better for the university.

It's like running a business. If you offer a good quality product, your coffers fill, your brand and reputation improves, and you get a halo effect. If you field a consistent loser, you lose money, your brand suffers and you don't realize the benefits you could. I think HBS basically concludes the same. So, if you are a football program, you should try and field a consistent winner.

Disclamer: The study cites that "education quality dissipates the effect of athletic success on monetary payoffs" ... meaning that top academic schools get a bump, but not as much as state schools. And some schools (like Alabama), the value of each additional win to the school is about $3MM.

V

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Well, we will agree to disagree there. If I don't want to do technical stuff and that's about all you offer, then ...

It's not all we offer.
Besides, there's plenty of schools with diverse offerings that don't get the blue chips. It's no magic bullet. Most of the kids only go to class because they have to. If you told them they didn't have to go to class and just play football, how many do you think would go to class?

 

[Vespidae]

All of these things matter way more to blue chip athletes than anything remotely related to course offerings.

I have no illusions about Tech becoming a factory school. I do think we can field a consistent Top 25 team though, so that's my ideal goal.

re the kids, the fact we may not be able to get the blue chip athletes again, reinforces my view that we need a) the absolute best national recruiting program we can develop and implement and b) the best player development program in the country. Yes, you might be a C student (but you can get in) and yes, you might be a C player today ... but you fit our program and we will teach you play GT ball.

I liken it to recruiting by the armed forces. Not sure if it's still true, but when I was getting recruited, you went into a room and there was as a set of weights set up for a deadlift and another for a squat. I don't remember the weight, but it sure got my attention. I asked the DI, "what's that all about?" and he yelled, "Army and Marines on the left, Navy on the right."

Again, "What's the deal".

"The Navy develops its talent. The Army harvests it."

 

[Vespidae]

If I don't want to do technical stuff and that's about all you offer, then ...

I think we tend to look at this as a negative. "Our school is hard. It's course catalog is limited. Etc."

I spent my career in marketing. And the first rule of thumb is to take every negative and make it a positive.

"Our school is hard" ... "Damn right it's hard. It will test every fiber of your being. Not many kids can handle Tech. Many are called, but few are chosen. But if you get in, and you graduate, you'll have a lifetime of success that few can compare to ..."

Does it apply to athletes? Not all .. but I have to think there's 30 a year that it does. We just have to find them.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I have no illusions about Tech becoming a factory school. I do think we can field a consistent Top 25 team though, so that's my ideal goal.

re the kids, the fact we may not be able to get the blue chip athletes again, reinforces my view that we need a) the absolute best national recruiting program we can develop and implement and b) the best player development program in the country. Yes, you might be a C student (but you can get in) and yes, you might be a C player today ... but you fit our program and we will teach you play GT ball.

I liken it to recruiting by the armed forces. Not sure if it's still true, but when I was getting recruited, you went into a room and there was as a set of weights set up for a deadlift and another for a squat. I don't remember the weight, but it sure got my attention. I asked the DI, "what's that all about?" and he yelled, "Army and Marines on the left, Navy on the right."

Again, "What's the deal".

"The Navy develops its talent. The Army harvests it."

I agree, but it takes money and time. Lot's of money and lots of time. You need a very big support staff that can do all the leg work. Our budget is limited and so is the commitment from the school. The schools that recruit like you describe have blue chip athletes sending them tapes.

I'm not sure what you want more from a player development standpoint. Better coaches? money. Better facilities? money. Also, our SA's are real students, unlike at factories. The demands on their time outside of organized workouts is very limited. Practice, class, study, eat, sleep. Not much more time than that.

 

[Vespidae]

You need a very big support staff that can do all the leg work. Our budget is limited and so is the commitment from the school.

That's limited thinking. (I remember Dr. Shelton at Tech saying, "Given enough time and money, I can solve any problem.")

OK, so "what" we have to do is understood. "How" we do it needs help.

Tech football does not, in my opinion, use it's vast network of alumni to help develop a possible solution. It is possible. Just not with traditional thinking.

I'm always tortured by my Tech experience. My senior design project was to build a machine for the testing lab, where the product (a test rig) cost $25,000. The prof gave us $500. And told us we had to meet the same specs. We did.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Deshaun Watson is from Gainsville, Ga. He is a Communication Studies major at Clemson.

We have this: https://www.lmc.gatech.edu/

 

[Jmonty71]

It's not CPJ and the offense. We don't get the big time 5 star recruits like Clemson and Georgia because of how strict the acadmic policy is at Tech. Hopefully the new AD can help us out with that.

I'm not sure I would want this. Would you really want to jeopardize the good academics that people expect at GT, just so we can win in sports? Seems like making a deal with the devil. Bama, UGA, FSU, Florida and others have done this and in return, they aren't known for academics at all. They are known for football, parties and criminal activities. Just don't think that is what GT should do. I'm not alum but the credibility of being a "school" is what I like about GT.

 

[Skeptic]

I think we tend to look at this as a negative. "Our school is hard. It's course catalog is limited. Etc."

I spent my career in marketing. And the first rule of thumb is to take every negative and make it a positive.

"Our school is hard" ... "Damn right it's hard. It will test every fiber of your being. Not many kids can handle Tech. Many are called, but few are chosen. But if you get in, and you graduate, you'll have a lifetime of success that few can compare to ..."

Does it apply to athletes? Not all .. but I have to think there's 30 a year that it does. We just have to find them.

Again, I think ego is intruding. Nobody cares how hard it is or isn't -- lots of schools are hard -- if you don't offer what interests them. And not a lot of people are going to be successful that "few can compare to" if they just don't like what it is they are supposed to do. Lawyers call it "getting over the wall" for a reason. And having a few electives is fine, but not enough to fit the huge range of vocational interests represented out there. I am not slamming Tech. It is an engineering school. It should be. Just don't think everybody wants to do that stuff. Now, as part of marketing, would you intentionally mislead consumers or sell a defective product?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

That's limited thinking. (I remember Dr. Shelton at Tech saying, "Given enough time and money, I can solve any problem.")

OK, so "what" we have to do is understood. "How" we do it needs help.

Tech football does not, in my opinion, use it's vast network of alumni to help develop a possible solution. It is possible. Just not with traditional thinking.

I'm always tortured by my Tech experience. My senior design project was to build a machine for the testing lab, where the product (a test rig) cost $25,000. The prof gave us $500. And told us we had to meet the same specs. We did.

What I meant by time was staff man-hours. What you suggest would take a lot of hours of digging, searching, film watching, game watching, relationship building with hs coaches, contacting, traveling, etc, etc, etc. Things that are only allowed by GT recruiting staff and coaches.

It's also a bigger gamble when you recruit far from home. You make a huge time investment for a low probability yield. The farther away, the less likely they come.

I think we need to focus on this profile:
1. Academics first and foremost. Kids have to want the "40 yr plan" not just pay lip service to it. They don't have to be great students, just good students who see education as the ticket to success in life, not football. The parents' commitment to and value of education is huge if not paramount.
2. Be great athletes (duh). They don't have to be "oven ready" or 5 star players. They just have to have a high upside. They can be guys who are under the radar because they don't have the measureables, but the skill is undeniable. Or they can be kids with measureables out the wazzoo, but are raw and undeveloped/lack experience.
3. Work ethic. They have to want to work hard to get better. So many kids with high ceilings never reach it because of poor work ethic.
4. High character. Coachable. Kids who'll "run through a brick wall" for their teammates and coaches.
5. Blue chips that... meet the above criteria and live near by and have a strong desire to stay close for family reasons.
6. Blue chips with... a strong family connection to the school and value that connection. (legacies who value that legacy, example: Swilling boys)

 

[Vespidae]

Again, I think ego is intruding.

Of course ego is intruding. 99% of purchase decisions are emotional.

If Emory Law School had a football team (Go Eagles!), would you change the curriculum and add Urban Studies? No. It's a law school.

I'm fine with Tech's offering. It's an engineering school, a damn good one, that has a Division 1 sports program. That alone is a major accomplishment. I personally don't agree with offering business degrees at Tech ... they did that once and got out of it ... today, it's called Georgia State University.

I do think there is a lot of upcoming demand in sports technology and I could envision a major in that. But guess what ... because of technology, it will be a difficult curriculum. Most things worth having in life are hard.

One thing though we all miss. Just because you study engineering, doesn't mean that becomes your lifetime vocation. I studied engineering and practiced it. Then, I got into sales and marketing. And it was my engineering degree that made a difference ... process thinking. That's probably why 25% of Fortune 500 CEO's are ... guess what? Engineers.

 

[MikeJackets]

I think it's possible for GT to make the College Football Playoffs if they win the ACC but I think that would be about as far as i'm willing to go.

 

[Vespidae]

It's also a bigger gamble when you recruit far from home. You make a huge time investment for a low probability yield. The farther away, the less likely they come.

No question about it. I really have no idea what Tech's recruiting philosophy is. I don't think they have every articulated it.

Bobby Dodd had this opinion ... Tech is not a Georgie school, it's an Atlanta school. So Tech must dominate the Atlanta market (not the Georgia market) and know in intimate detail, every kid at every high school in the metro Atlanta area. And they need to get those kids, their friends and their family to the games. Dodd felt that a feeling of "family" and "common Southern thinking" enabled good talent to overcome great talent.

Times have changed. But whether it's a narrow pool or a wide pool, I think it's the right approach. Build a persona, a profile and set up a process to go after it. The higher the yield, the greater the personal contact, the lower the yield, the more automated.

Easy for me to say.

 

[iceeater1969]

What I meant by time was staff man-hours. What you suggest would take a lot of hours of digging, searching, film watching, game watching, relationship building with hs coaches, contacting, traveling, etc, etc, etc. Things that are only allowed by GT recruiting staff and coaches.

It's also a bigger gamble when you recruit far from home. You make a huge time investment for a low probability yield. The farther away, the less likely they come.

I think we need to focus on this profile:
1. Academics first and foremost. Kids have to want the "40 yr plan" not just pay lip service to it. They don't have to be great students, just good students who see education as the ticket to success in life, not football. The parents' commitment to and value of education is huge if not paramount.
2. Be great athletes (duh). They don't have to be "oven ready" or 5 star players. They just have to have a high upside. They can be guys who are under the radar because they don't have the measureables, but the skill is undeniable. Or they can be kids with measureables out the wazzoo, but are raw and undeveloped/lack experience.
3. Work ethic. They have to want to work hard to get better. So many kids with high ceilings never reach it because of poor work ethic.
4. High character. Coachable. Kids who'll "run through a brick wall" for their teammates and coaches.
5. Blue chips that... meet the above criteria and live near by and have a strong desire to stay close for family reasons.
6. Blue chips with... a strong family connection to the school and value that connection. (legacies who value that legacy, example: Swilling boys)

So kids from Calif and Houston , Dallas,San Antonio pay extra to come, but players will not? Withcost to recruit in Houston is not that much more. We are already doing more recruiting nation wide ( Lucas J, jazz lee, Hawaii ). Having a son who is a coach I know that gt is highly respected due to coach and reputation for caring for players. Gt shows no interest - one of his players ol nfl titans, one rb Purdue , and last big wr to texas tech. It's clearly lack of staff. Instead of spending $$to change bds seating , let's have a $$ drive to add staff.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

So kids from Calif and Houston , Dallas,San Antonio pay extra to come, but players will not? Withcost to recruit in Houston is not that much more. We are already doing more recruiting nation wide ( Lucas J, jazz lee, Hawaii ). Having a son who is a coach I know that gt is highly respected due to coach and reputation for caring for players. Gt shows no interest - one of his players ol nfl titans, one rb Purdue , and last big wr to texas tech. It's clearly lack of staff. Instead of spending $$to change bds seating , let's have a $$ drive to add staff.

If the coaches have leads on kids they're more likely to take a look. You're free to send an email anytime.

 

[Vespidae]

So kids from Calif and Houston , Dallas,San Antonio pay extra to come, but players will not? Withcost to recruit in Houston is not that much more. We are already doing more recruiting nation wide ( Lucas J, jazz lee, Hawaii ). Having a son who is a coach I know that gt is highly respected due to coach and reputation for caring for players. Gt shows no interest - one of his players ol nfl titans, one rb Purdue , and last big wr to texas tech. It's clearly lack of staff. Instead of spending $$to change bds seating , let's have a $$ drive to add staff.

One of the benefits of a solid booster program.

 

[CTJacket]

So kids from Calif and Houston , Dallas,San Antonio pay extra to come, but players will not? Withcost to recruit in Houston is not that much more. We are already doing more recruiting nation wide ( Lucas J, jazz lee, Hawaii ). Having a son who is a coach I know that gt is highly respected due to coach and reputation for caring for players. Gt shows no interest - one of his players ol nfl titans, one rb Purdue , and last big wr to texas tech. It's clearly lack of staff. Instead of spending $$to change bds seating , let's have a $$ drive to add staff.

 

[Skeptic]

If the coaches have leads on kids they're more likely to take a look. You're free to send an email anytime.

The writer Jimmy Breslin once described Dodger scout Clyde Sukeforth as a guy "who could go out to lunch and come back with a shortstop." Maybe we need a couple of those.

 

[chewybaka]

I certainly sure hope that is understood to be the overarching goal at the beginning of every season! The pre 1990 team struggled and then put it together similar to 2014...Just ran out of runway in 2014

 

[Boomergump]

We won an Orange Bowl against a team that was was in the top 5 for the vast majority of the season just two years ago. That pretty much defines us as a team that "could" do it under this coach. There is not a whole lot of room left to go up from an Orange Bowl win. With that said, winning a natty is unlikely, as it is for any team. Heck, I would let anyone on this board pick any team they want to win the natty next season and I would gladly bet the field. The odds are against any individual program, just some more than others.

It sure would be a fun ride though wouldn't it. Personally, I think winning the coastal would be a solid and realistic goal for this team next year, given where we are now. It is a tough league. Whatever the outcome, I sure do find it fun being a TECH fan. I like our coach and I like our brand of football, especially if we get teams off the field on 3rd down just a little more often.