Biggest need for 2016 (offense edition)

[dressedcheeseside]

Where do you come up with that number? The only new person at the start of the year was a graduate transfer. Everyone else was either a starter the previous year, played the previous year and was in at least their 3rd year in the system.

OL- 4 returning starters and a 3rd year guy with legit playing time the previous year.
QB- 4th year guy of which people were talking about winning the Heisman
WR- 4th year and 2 year starter on one side with a 3rd year guy with playing time in the other side.
Aback- 5th year guy (and arguably our best aback the previous year) on one side and a 4th year guy on the other. 2nd year guy as number 1 backup who played well until hurt. Losing Andrews definitely hurt here.
Bback- 5th year senior, but first year in the system, 4th year guy and a true freshman.

So really only 1 new guy. Now by the time we were 2-4/2-5, we started to get a little thin.

We're there new guys in the 2 deep? Yes. By the end of the year your argument carries more weight, but we were healthy going into ND and they pantsed us. Relatively healthy against Duke and they pantsed us.

Try game 4 on. By the end it was as I said.

 

[WreckinGT]

How people say this with a straight face baffles me. We scored more PPG in 2013 than we have in any other year PJ has been here outside of 2014. Yes, even more than 2009 with Dwyer and Baybay. Not only that, it worked a lot better than what we saw this year. Vad was also a first year starter and had equally as bad of an offensive line.

For fun though, let's compare 2013 to 2015. Let's do this while keeping in mind that 2013 we had a 1st year starter in his 3rd year at GT while we had a second year (and more talented) starter in his 4th year at GT leading the way in 2015.

Points per game: 35.1 vs 29.2 edge 2013
Yards per game: 430.1 vs 378 edge 2013
Rushing YPG: 299.7 vs 256.7 edge 2013
Record: 7-6 (5-3) vs 3-9 (1-7) edge 2013


Almost every measurable statistic is better in 2013. We also scored 28+ points 9 times in 2013 vs 4 times in 2015. I will admit that we had a tougher schedule this year, but those numbers really aren't that close. All of this was with Vad playing scared for the 2nd half of the season. Imagine what it would've looked like if he would've fully bought in and not shied away from contact.

Nobody, well not me anyways, is calling for a complete overhaul of the system. I just happen to think it would be nice to have some wrinkles to throw at teams (outside of mixing up blocking assignments or what gap the bback is hitting) when we can't run our bread and butter. Being multiple is not a bad thing. It doesn't have to be overly difficult either. Sometimes just changing a look can be enough to slow your opponent down enough to allow a play to succeed. We can run the same plays from a shotgun or pistol set that we do from under center. I honestly think JT would be great doing some of the things PJ let Vad do and would love to see some of the speed we have now on the jet sweeps.

Disclaimer- this isn't a Vad is better than Justin post. It is merely to point out the ridiculousness of those saying that what we did in 2013 didn't work.

The only thing you are proving with this post is that Vad + Godhigh, Perkins, Zenon, Days, Sims, Laskey, Smelter, Waller, and Mason and an easy schedule was better than JT + a bunch of freshmen with a ridiculously hard schedule.

 

[Papa Doc]

Skov had two really banged up shoulders that hampered his game more than most know.

We have BBs with leg and shoulder injuries every year . . . fullback position with tailback sized players being hammered by DT and LB gets us banged up. We need 2 or 3 guys as big as guards who run fast

 

[Lee]

Try game 4 on. By the end it was as I said.

Did we look competent against ND or Duke? Those were 2 of the worst games the offense played all year.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Did we look competent against ND or Duke? Those were 2 of the worst games the offense played all year.

Neither of those two teams are chopped liver especially on defense.

 

[ATL1]

He tried new things with Vad and it didn't work.

Did he really? I mean was there really a commitment to it? Outside of the diamond which was only done possibly 15 snaps total what other new ideas were executed.

 

[ATL1]

Isn't this the third year Cutcliff has taken it to CPJ?

 

[Lee]

The only thing you are proving with this post is that Vad + Godhigh, Perkins, Zenon, Days, Sims, Laskey, Smelter, Waller, and Mason and an easy schedule was better than JT + a bunch of freshmen with a ridiculously hard schedule.

Yea, that and every other offense in the PJ era including the ones with Dwyer, Baybay, and Nesbitt.

If a team putting up 35+ ppg is doing something that doesn't work, what does said team look like doing something that does work? 2014 was clearly the best season weve had here offensively since Lil Joe was here for sure, but to act like opening the offense up in 2013 didn't work is unfounded IMO.

Also, Waller wasn't very good that year. A guy named Michael Summers (who was on this year's team and 2 years older) started over him and Smelter was in his first year playing football since HS. Mason was a sophomore and the rest of that Oline was supposed to be less talented than the one we had this year. All of those abacks did little up to that point in their careers.

 

[Lee]

Neither of those two teams are chopped liver especially on defense.

Didn't say they were.

With regards to the level of competition, you're right, both teams were pretty good. In fact, Duke has owned PJ and his offense the past 2 years. Even last year's, most efficient offense ever. In 2013 though, "the failed experiment year," we blew them out. Vad threw for 4 TD's and ran for another. That's the last time we've played well against them.

Again, I'm not calling for a grand overhaul to the scheme. You said what we did in 2013 didn't work. I disagree and provided evidence to back up what I said. You have just given an opinion, which you are entitled to, but that doesn't prove what you said is true.

 

[Lee]

Isn't this the third year Cutcliff has taken it to CPJ?

Nope, Vad threw for 4 tds against them in 2013. 2 of them slants to Smelter if I remember correctly.

 

[ATL1]

@Lee no need in arguing we all understand you would like the offense tweaked, but you want be able to convince everyone. Many on this board are CPJ apologist, he walks on water, you can post whatever you not winning them over on anything changing and they have somewhat a defeatist attitude.
To be honest CPJ ain't changing the O, he may do some minor tweaks but nothing to drastic. He's the coach, he's not going anywhere so just deal with it. Listen I'm not the biggest fan of the offense either, well at least in how it's currently constructed, but he's the coach and he's brought 2 11 win seasons. Maybe another one will come in the next 4 to 5 years. It is what it is.

 

[ATL1]

Nope, Vad threw for 4 tds against them in 2013. 2 of them slants to Smelter if I remember correctly.[/]

Stand corrected

 

[WreckinGT]

Didn't say they were.

With regards to the level of competition, you're right, both teams were pretty good. In fact, Duke has owned PJ and his offense the past 2 years. Even last year's, most efficient offense ever. In 2013 though, "the failed experiment year," we blew them out. Vad threw for 4 TD's and ran for another. That's the last time we've played well against them.

Again, I'm not calling for a grand overhaul to the scheme. You said what we did in 2013 didn't work. I disagree and provided evidence to back up what I said. You have just given an opinion, which you are entitled to, but that doesn't prove what you said is true.

Duke owned our offense in 2014? We had nearly 500 yards, 7 yards a play, and they only forced us to punt one time. We would have won easily if we hadn't gotten the turnover bug that day.

 

[WreckinGT]

Yea, that and every other offense in the PJ era including the ones with Dwyer, Baybay, and Nesbitt.

If a team putting up 35+ ppg is doing something that doesn't work, what does said team look like doing something that does work? 2014 was clearly the best season weve had here offensively since Lil Joe was here for sure, but to act like opening the offense up in 2013 didn't work is unfounded IMO.

Also, Waller wasn't very good that year. A guy named Michael Summers (who was on this year's team and 2 years older) started over him and Smelter was in his first year playing football since HS. Mason was a sophomore and the rest of that Oline was supposed to be less talented than the one we had this year. All of those abacks did little up to that point in their careers.

Mason was a Junior and was 1st team all ACC that year. Waller lead all of our receivers in yards. Summers wasn't even in the top 3 in receiving. Smelter was Smelter. You can bash our A-Backs all you want but Godhigh was probably the best we have had at the position and I think that most would agree that having 5 juniors or seniors getting all of the playing time is usually going to work out better than having mostly freshmen getting the playing time. As good as Lynch was this year carrying the load as our main A-Back, I'm not sure I take him over any of the top 5 guys from 2013.

 

[Lee]

Duke owned our offense in 2014? We had nearly 500 yards, 7 yards a play, and they only forced us to punt one time. We would have won easily if we hadn't gotten the turnover bug that day.

Yards are cool, but you win games with points. That was another issue this year's team had. We could move the ball sometimes, but we struggled when we got to the red zone to put it in the end zone.

Do you think turnovers just happen? The other team usually has something to do about that. Also, we had 160+ yards and 2 of our 3 tds when they called of the dogs and we put our backup qb in. So yea, they played us pretty well. It may not have been as dominant as it was this year, but we didn't move the ball at will. If I remember correctly Golden gave us a couple big returns with great field position that we did nothing with as well.

 

[Aanderson1839]

All of this just cracks me up. Our offense had a bad year, it is the first season since PJ got here that our Offense was our biggest problem.

The two biggest things we need to improve on offense next year are: 1) Blocking across the board, lines, receivers, backs. 2) WR to quickly win 1 on 1 match ups and/or show the ability to battle for a jump ball.

If we had #2 it would limit the impact of not getting better on #1.

 

[Lee]

Mason was a Junior and was 1st team all ACC that year. Waller lead all of our receivers in yards. Summers wasn't even in the top 3 in receiving. Smelter was Smelter. You can bash our A-Backs all you want but Godhigh was probably the best we have had at the position and I think that most would agree that having 5 juniors or seniors getting all of the playing time is usually going to work out better than having mostly freshmen getting the playing time. As good as Lynch was this year carrying the load as our main A-Back, I'm not sure I take him over any of the top 5 guys from 2013.

Godhigh was great, there's no doubt. The rest of them had done nothing up to that point and didn't do that much after. If Waller was better, why didn't he start? We all know PJ values blocking from his WR's and that is why Summers started over him. Is he an easier target to throw to? Yes. Did he give the effort on a consistent basis that you want? Not that year. Smelter 2013 compared to Smelter 2014 was not even close either. If you think because his name didn't change that he was the same player, you didn't watch him play too closely.

Anyways, the whole point of this conversation was not to do an apples to apples comparison of 2013-2015 anyways. It was to show that the comment about what we did in 2013 not working was false.

You can't really do an apples to apples comparison to any year. Players improve (or should improve) year to year. I'm sure Justin would love to have Dwyer as a bback and Baybay on the edge. What you say is true, that having more upperclassman playing is better than less, but I wouldn't say having a sophomore qb in his first year starting is an experienced team. QB is the most important position on the field and we were very green at that spot in 2013 and still put up 35+ ppg. If anything that proves what we did that year did work more than the opposite.

 

[Lee]

All of this just cracks me up. Our offense had a bad year, it is the first season since PJ got here that our Offense was our biggest problem.

The two biggest things we need to improve on offense next year are: 1) Blocking across the board, lines, receivers, backs. 2) WR to quickly win 1 on 1 match ups and/or show the ability to battle for a jump ball.

If we had #2 it would limit the impact of not getting better on #1.

Yes. All we need to do is execute every assignment at an extremely high level or have a freak WR and this offense works like a charm. No need to even try and think of ways to improve upon what we do.

 

[Skeptic]

Did he really? I mean was there really a commitment to it? Outside of the diamond which was only done possibly 15 snaps total what other new ideas were executed.

Now, once again: you see, that was whimsy. See, the writer said he didn't want to hear that and foolish me thought it would be clever to say that and ...

And, by the way, you don't think he ran the diamond shotgun from under center, do you? Or installed it for anybody except Lee, and the fact is it did not work very well. Jeez. Lee is a good example of a good player above his grade at Tech, but down a league at James Madison and he lit it up. Good for him. He finally made the right decision and it worked for him. But a "different offense" is like the genie in the bottle to some folks. Pop the top and a genie gives us everything. Except that by any measure, 2014 excepted, we have had a very good offense. A different offense with the same personnel would have been goofy. (I did watch the 2009 VT and FSU games on the weekend, and I did wonder how good Nesbitt would have been, how really astonishing in fact, had he been able to keep his passes even on the playing field. He was the Rex Barney of college football.

 

[AE 87]

Doing more or doing differently?

Differently in addition to what we've been doing is more. Smh