Be carfull what you wish for remember "Nebraska"

grandpa jacket

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charles said:
Everybody needs to Remember What happened to Nebraska when they got away from the option with with Tom Osbourne and Frank Solich head coaches and experimented with the air raid and west coast passing scheme ; Yea they fired the next 2 coaches and Scott Frost whom is there new head coach which ran the option with precission has a terrible record with the newley installed passing offense; Ask any Neberasks Fan what offense they would rather see at Nebraska and it would be a run heavy option based formation
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Was this during the 4 horsemen era
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

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lv20gt said:
We are .500 the last 4 years. In Osborne's last 4 years they won 3 national titles and went a combined 49-2. There is a mountain of difference between Johnson and Osborne . Solich is a better comparison but even then there is a reason fans looked at Solich as having a program on the decline for legitimate reasons. The fact is every coaching change is a risk to some degree. It was a risk when we fired Gailey. That worked out. It was a risk when UGA fired Richt, and the arguments I'm hearing now were pretty much all said then. It's worked out for them.

The coaching change might work out well. It might work out terribly. It might work out okay and we are in the same mire around 7 wins a year we have been under both Johnson and Gailey. But nothing ventured, nothing gained, and we weren't going forward with Johnson at the helm anymore. At one point it looked like we were but at best we have stalled under him. A change was need. Risk going backwards for the potential reward of moving forwards.
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The logical connection is this: A program was MUCH more successful running this flavor of system than it was when it went away from it. How does that logical connection not apply here? Navy did the same thing. They hired a GREAT coach in Bobby Ross, and he tanked there, even though they had much greater success before he got there running this system (with CPJ as OC). If anything the logic applies much more to us than it would to a program like Nebraska which has many more financial and recruiting advantages than we do. I truly believe it is likely, if not HIGHLY likely, that if we go away from this kind of football at Georgia Tech, that we will become a significantly less successful program.

I will grant that it's not a foregone conclusion that we would be less successful and that there truly are more ways to be successful than just this kind of football.

My realistic ideal for success at GT is pretty much what CPJ has done. Be good most years, really good/great some years, with an understandable down year or two thrown in - this based on the ebb and flow of personnel, injuries, special talents (or lack thereof), and youth/experience on your team year-to-year. I believe we are likely to continue that kind of realistic ideal for success that CPJ has established here if we go with Monken or another good option-style coach. And, I believe we are more likely than not to take a step down if we regress toward the norm of NCAA-offense-style coach.
 

lv20gt

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vamosjackets said:
The logical connection is this: A program was MUCH more successful running this flavor of system than it was when it went away from it. How does that logical connection not apply here? Navy did the same thing. They hired a GREAT coach in Bobby Ross, and he tanked there, even though they had much greater success before he got there running this system (with CPJ as OC). If anything the logic applies much more to us than it would to a program like Nebraska which has many more financial and recruiting advantages than we do. I truly believe it is likely, if not HIGHLY likely, that if we go away from this kind of football at Georgia Tech, that we will become a significantly less successful program.
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Nebraska was also less successful running it with a pretender (Solich) than the real thing (Osborne). And it's entirely possible that they flamed out not because they went away from the wishbone but because they went with a head coach with no college coaching experience 10 years and none as a head coach. Then they went to Pelini and won 71% of his games which is pretty much where they were at under Solich.

Also Ross never coached at Navy.

The option isn't what made Johnson have success. It was his understanding of it. Just keeping the system while losing the understanding won't be step in the right direction. I highly doubt we'll see that though as I expect even if we hire Monken we will have significant changes to the offense like people have been asking Johnson to make for a while now.

Also we won about the same number of games per year before Johnson so there is little reason to expect that only by virtue of his super magical offense that we were winning 7 a year.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

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lv20gt said:
Nebraska was also less successful running it with a pretender (Solich) than the real thing (Osborne). And it's entirely possible that they flamed out not because they went away from the wishbone but because they went with a head coach with no college coaching experience 10 years and none as a head coach. Then they went to Pelini and won 71% of his games which is pretty much where they were at under Solich.

Also Ross never coached at Navy.

The option isn't what made Johnson have success. It was his understanding of it. Just keeping the system while losing the understanding won't be step in the right direction. I highly doubt we'll see that though as I expect even if we hire Monken we will have significant changes to the offense like people have been asking Johnson to make for a while now.

Also we won about the same number of games per year before Johnson so there is little reason to expect that only by virtue of his super magical offense that we were winning 7 a year.
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I agree with a lot of this.
The offense was pretty much "super magical" though. To have an offense that was consistently near the top in efficiency (and at the very top a couple of years with just a couple of special playmakers) at Georgia Tech is about as "super magical" as it gets. Before CPJ, we had a "super magical" defense with a really good running game that got us some winning seasons. Before that, we had another "super magical" offense during Fridge's golden years. The point is, we're going to need something "super magical" to get anywhere near the kind of success I've described (which CPJ had delivered), don't you think?

Oh, and good call on Bobby Ross (sorry). He coached at Army. I don't think that does any injury to my point though, and actually brings in another example of a program that experienced what I was talking about. Both Army and Navy went through that kind of dip when going away from the option. And both went back up again when they went back to it. Air Force never really had the kind of dip those two programs had because they never went completely away from it. They enjoyed a ton of CIC trophies during Army and Navy's prodigal years.
 
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MWBATL

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vamosjackets said:
I agree with a lot of this.
The offense was pretty much "super magical" though. To have an offense that was consistently near the top in efficiency (and at the very top a couple of years with just a couple of special playmakers) at Georgia Tech is about as "super magical" as it gets. Before CPJ, we had a "super magical" defense with a really good running game that got us some winning seasons. Before that, we had another "super magical" offense during Fridge's golden years. The point is, we're going to need something "super magical" to get anywhere near the kind of success I've described (which CPJ had delivered), don't you think?

Oh, and good call on Bobby Ross (sorry). He coached at Army. I don't think that does any injury to my point though, and actually brings in another example of a program that experienced what I was talking about. Both Army and Navy went through that kind of dip when going away from the option. And both went back up again when they went back to it. Air Force never really had the kind of dip those two programs had because they never went completely away from it. They enjoyed a ton of CIC trophies during Army and Navy's prodigal years.
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My only objection to your point is that CPJ’s offense tended to rank so highly because it beat up on weaker teams (Louisville, Va Tech, etc) and failed miserably against good defenses (Ga and Clemson). That is always true to a degree, but seemed to me to be more of a factor with CPJ.

I generally share your concern about the coaching change. I agree with CPJ that many who were critical simply don’t understand, or misrepresented our past “success”. I particularly am frustrated by folks who magically think we will now recruit on a level to compete with Ga and Clemson. There is so much more that needs to be done that has nothing to do wit the head coach.
 
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MWBATL said:
My only objection to your point is that CPJ’s offense tended to rank so highly because it beat up on weaker teams (Louisville, Va Tech, etc) and failed miserably against good defenses (Ga and Clemson). That is always true to a degree, but seemed to me to be more of a factor with CPJ.

I generally share your concern about the coaching change. I agree with CPJ that many who were critical simply don’t understand, or misrepresented our past “success”. I particularly am frustrated by folks who magically think we will now recruit on a level to compete with Ga and Clemson. There is so much more that needs to be done that has nothing to do wit the head coach.
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I can respect your point.
 
ibeattetris

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MWBATL said:
My only objection to your point is that CPJ’s offense tended to rank so highly because it beat up on weaker teams (Louisville, Va Tech, etc) and failed miserably against good defenses (Ga and Clemson). That is always true to a degree, but seemed to me to be more of a factor with CPJ.

I generally share your concern about the coaching change. I agree with CPJ that many who were critical simply don’t understand, or misrepresented our past “success”. I particularly am frustrated by folks who magically think we will now recruit on a level to compete with Ga and Clemson. There is so much more that needs to be done that has nothing to do wit the head coach.
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Plenty of metrics account for strength of schedule, and we perform well there as well.
 
okiemon

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charles said:
Everybody needs to Remember What happened to Nebraska when they got away from the option with with Tom Osbourne and Frank Solich head coaches and experimented with the air raid and west coast passing scheme ; Yea they fired the next 2 coaches and Scott Frost whom is there new head coach which ran the option with precission has a terrible record with the newley installed passing offense; Ask any Neberasks Fan what offense they would rather see at Nebraska and it would be a run heavy option based formation
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Apples and oranges.


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