Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[Animal02]

Again, immoral and unethical are not always synonymous.

That being said, if expected attrition pans out, then no harm no foul.

But answer me this, if three people don't leave, should we cut three current athletes or inform three signees they'll have to greyshirt. Either of those choices are unethical.

Now, if this were a business, and these athletes were paid their fair market value, then this would be simply business. But this is not a normal business and these guys are not being compensated at fair market value, as the scholarship is only truly valuable if they are allowed to keep it until graduation.

Not to mention they have to sit out a year if transferring.

 

[eastpoint]

nobody's degree will decrease in value if our football team gets better from a few relaxed recruits. Nor will our academic rankings plummet due to that. Thinking otherwise is laughable.

My diploma survived Kenny Anderson and Stephon Marbury on campus. So did all of yours.

Whenever I read these silly sanctimonious responses, I always think to myself Stephon Marbury. If he didn’t cheapen your degree, nothing ever will.

 

[eastpoint]

KEY word............"few". I've been harping here and elsewhere forever about the need to recruit more "exceptions" (to TECH's AA stds--not the ncaa). However, those here wanting to be like Bama, AU, ugag, etc. are either johnny come latelys or have never understood the uniqueness of GT football. If someone doesn't care for said uniqueness, they can pull for the sec. When we have 30-40 players on medical and/or guys who read at a third grade level, I will swear off one of the truly great loves of my 68 years of life, and eventually die heartbroken.

You don't have to be pure as the driven snow, to refuse to crossover the line to be a pathetic POS cheater like the PED slugs.

Placing our back-up FG kicker on medical whatever is not Alabama-like. Alabama would send him packing. GT would honor his full-ride even though his leg is hurt. And his leg is definitely hurt.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Let's see what u come up -8/29 - for him and others. A new problem now that the new "evil" key guy as his position coach and not the 20 year ast coach u greatly respect. 8 29

Ok...just be more vague then.

 

[GoldZ]

Placing our back-up FG kicker on medical whatever is not Alabama-like. Alabama would send him packing. GT would honor his full-ride even though his leg is hurt. And his leg is definitely hurt.

Who here has any prob whatsoever with legit medicals? Bama would send him packing if he was perfectly healthy because the other guy was better. How bout sending the coach who recruited him packing?

 

[tmhunter52]

Who here has any prob whatsoever with legit medicals? Bama would send him packing if he was perfectly healthy because the other guy was better. How bout sending the coach who recruited him packing?

I think if you are hired by GM, Google, Microsoft, etc., and your manager calls you in and tells you they have found someone they like better for your position, your employer should have to keep you employed (maybe in the email room) or at least put you on paid medical leave forever! College should provide experiential learning for the real world and vice versa.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I think if you are hired by GM, Google, Microsoft, etc., and your manager calls you in and tells you they have found someone they like better for your position, your employer should have to keep you employed (maybe in the email room) or at least put you on paid medical leave forever! College should provide experiential learning for the real world and vice versa.

Do you eat apples and oranges for every meal or just for breakfast?

 

[smokey_wasp]

Again, immoral and unethical are not always synonymous.

That being said, if expected attrition pans out, then no harm no foul.

But answer me this, if three people don't leave, should we cut three current athletes or inform three signees they'll have to greyshirt. Either of those choices are unethical.

Now, if this were a business, and these athletes were paid their fair market value, then this would be simply business. But this is not a normal business and these guys are not being compensated at fair market value, as the scholarship is only truly valuable if they are allowed to keep it until graduation.

Well, I do think it's irrelevant, as CGC explicitly said before the last signing day that he knew the exact number he could safely get to. But as far as your hypothetical goes, I don't think that a P5 head football coach can afford to live in the realm of unlikely hypotheticals, at least not at the expense of handicapping his program. The other 80-something players are owed the best chance to win, as are the people that we ask to invest financially in the program. Ultimately, our staff has struck all the right notes in terms of how they care about their players, and the players have raved about this being a group of players' coaches. We have no reason to believe they will behave in any sort of shady way in their efforts to win. Your point is well taken that we are not operating in a perfect system, but it's the one that we operate in, and I trust our staff to make the best of it for everyone involved. That's gonna be my bottom line on it, though I respect your stance.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Well, I do think it's irrelevant, as CGC explicitly said before the last signing day that he knew the exact number he could safely get to. But as far as your hypothetical goes, I don't think that a P5 head football coach can afford to live in the realm of unlikely hypotheticals, at least not at the expense of handicapping his program. The other 80-something players are owed the best chance to win, as are the people that we ask to invest financially in the program. Ultimately, our staff has struck all the right notes in terms of how they care about their players, and the players have raved about this being a group of players' coaches. We have no reason to believe they will behave in any sort of shady way in their efforts to win. Your point is well taken that we are not operating in a perfect system, but it's the one that we operate in, and I trust our staff to make the best of it for everyone involved. That's gonna be my bottom line on it, though I respect your stance.

All is good so far. But if the staff makes a miscalculation and ends up actually processing a SA because of it.....all that good could quickly turn bad. That’s why it’s potentially risky to play loose with numbers.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think if you are hired by GM, Google, Microsoft, etc., and your manager calls you in and tells you they have found someone they like better for your position, your employer should have to keep you employed (maybe in the email room) or at least put you on paid medical leave forever! College should provide experiential learning for the real world and vice versa.

I'm fine with that as long as players can compete for fair market wages just like the employees in the companies you named.

Also, there are laws in place to prevent workers who are capable, but maybe not the best, from being fired indiscriminately.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Well, I do think it's irrelevant, as CGC explicitly said before the last signing day that he knew the exact number he could safely get to. But as far as your hypothetical goes, I don't think that a P5 head football coach can afford to live in the realm of unlikely hypotheticals, at least not at the expense of handicapping his program. The other 80-something players are owed the best chance to win, as are the people that we ask to invest financially in the program. Ultimately, our staff has struck all the right notes in terms of how they care about their players, and the players have raved about this being a group of players' coaches. We have no reason to believe they will behave in any sort of shady way in their efforts to win. Your point is well taken that we are not operating in a perfect system, but it's the one that we operate in, and I trust our staff to make the best of it for everyone involved. That's gonna be my bottom line on it, though I respect your stance.

All that and you avoided answering the simple question. Who do you cut? The players already here or the signee you promised a scholarship to.

And if you never consider the hypothetical, then your chances increase of making unethical decisions when the "hypothetical" situation arises.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I wonder if we tell kids “come to GT and get a world-class education… but only if you see the field.”

 

[smokey_wasp]

All that and you avoided answering the simple question. Who do you cut? The players already here or the signee you promised a scholarship to.

And if you never consider the hypothetical, then your chances increase of making unethical decisions when the "hypothetical" situation arises.

I feel like this will veer back into the discussion of what "processing" is. I am already on record saying no one gets involuntarily "cut" and have stated I generally agree with Milwaukee's take on that. Maybe I haven't answered your hypothetical, but you haven't addressed the real world issues that undersigning and not planning for attrition creates. Nor is your scenario realistic in terms of a player who has gotten his degree and is not going to play just being adamant about taking up space on the team for an extra year. It simply doesn't happen, and once they've got the degree, GT has held up its end. Now, you are going to say "What if you don't have enough players who fit that description?" and my answer is you don't oversign to that degree.

I am afraid we will go around in circles on this for all eternity on this and I'm just not into it.

 

[Southpawmac]

I wonder if we tell kids “come to GT and get a world-class education… but only if you see the field.”

I know you are being sarcastic, but for all we know the new staff is this upfront with every recruit. If they actually tell the recruits something to that effect, then the recruit knows what bar they have to reach. If they aren't told that and get the rug pulled out from under them, that's not right.

 

[stech81]

I'm not go to worry about something i have no control over Tech pays the AD and coaches to worry about it.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Maybe I haven't answered your hypothetical, but you haven't addressed the real world issues that undersigning and not planning for attrition creates.

What "real world issue" is more important than honoring a commitment to a student athlete?

This is why many of us are concerned about oversigning.

 

[smokey_wasp]

What "real world issue" is more important than honoring a commitment to a student athlete?

This is why many of us are concerned about oversigning.

Dude, we have debated this in good faith, I think, but if you are going to start cutting out and ignoring entire sections of my posts where I actually answer your questions, I gotta bounce from this conversation (again). The commitment to the SA is a chance to get their education and I am clearly talking about the 5th year types here. I said you don't oversign past that point, and we haven't. If you think we are ethically obligated until their eligibility runs out, fine. I have said all I can say on this and am exhausted.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Dude, we have debated this in good faith, I think, but if you are going to start cutting out and ignoring entire sections of my posts where I actually answer your questions, I gotta bounce from this conversation (again). The commitment to the SA is a chance to get their education and I am clearly talking about the 5th year types here. I said you don't oversign past that point, and we haven't. If you think we are ethically obligated until their eligibility runs out, fine. I have said all I can say on this and am exhausted.

My point is, and has always been, that there is nothing so damaging about having three unused scholarships at the beginning of a season that overrides the potential of having to cut three players. The consequences of a loss of 3-5 scholarships in any given year are negligible at best.

 

[iceeater1969]

I wonder if we tell kids “come to GT and get a world-class education… but only if you see the field.”

26 players left early in 15 and 16.

I hope u can look at those years to answer your own question.

Me thinks u place accusations as questions. They make u look insincere.
Let Ron do that as he is so well trained at we dont know it happened.

 

[beerbuzz]

All that and you avoided answering the simple question. Who do you cut? The players already here or the signee you promised a scholarship to.

And if you never consider the hypothetical, then your chances increase of making unethical decisions when the "hypothetical" situation arises.

He answered the question. Just not in your “going

The lyrics make no sense.

They were catchy and music had simple best

just like this post.....round and round and makes no sense