At WF, 3/5/2024 1st of Last Two Regular Season Games

[senoiajacket]

Palming is still called occasionally, but it is very, very infrequent. I have seen it called a handful (no pun intended) of times in the past few years, maybe once or twice per season, depending on how much bball I watch.

You’ve seen it called at the college level?

 

[orientalnc]

Palming is still called occasionally, but it is very, very infrequent. I have seen it called a handful (no pun intended) of times in the past few years, maybe once or twice per season, depending on how much bball I watch.

The violation is actually a double dribble violation. When the ball comes to rest in a player's hand, the dribble has ended. When the player dribbles again it is a double dribble. I believe high school refs, and maybe college refs, call palming to add clarity to the call to make sure the players and coaches know what the dribbler did that was incorrect.

It has been 10-15 years since I have seen this called in a game. Should it be? You betcha!

 

[forensicbuzz]

Is palming (or also known as “carrying” then all back in the day) even still in the rule book?

Yes. And it looks like these kids are carrying the ball, but they're not. The ball has to come to rest in the hand with the palm facing upwards. They way they do it today, the ball doesn't stop spinning until the hand is back into position. I had a long discussion about this with a long-time college ref I know.

 

[Root4GT]

Yes. And it looks like these kids are carrying the ball, but they're not. The ball has to come to rest in the hand with the palm facing upwards. They way they do it today, the ball doesn't stop spinning until the hand is back into position. I had a long discussion about this with a long-time college ref I know.

You nailed it!

 

[GaTech4ever]

Can we please drop the Sturdivant travel topic? He picked up his pivot foot (left foot) before he started his dribble. He did attempt to start his dribble but it never got off his body because his own arm got in the way and the defense was so tight.

It was a bang-bang call, and I think they got it right. However, even in the slow-mo you can see it’s almost impossible to tell. So I’m not gonna crucify the refs over this call, regardless of what you think the call should have been. If you see that replay and think Sturdivant CLEARLY started dribbling before picking up his pivot foot, I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re just a biased Tech fan.




Ref can’t just assume a player is starting his dribble if said player can’t get the ball off their own body.

 

[Techwood Relict]

Can we please drop the Sturdivant travel topic? He picked up his pivot foot (left foot) before he started his dribble. He did attempt to start his dribble but it never got off his body because his own arm got in the way and the defense was so tight.

It was a bang-bang call, and I think they got it right. However, even in the slow-mo you can see it’s almost impossible to tell. So I’m not gonna crucify the refs over this call, regardless of what you think the call should have been. If you see that replay and think Sturdivant CLEARLY started dribbling before picking up his pivot foot, I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re just a biased Tech fan.




Ref can’t just assume a player is starting his dribble if said player can’t get the ball off their own body.

I have reviewed this video repeatedly. The only thing I can see is a big freaking W!

 

[GTjunkie]

Is palming (or also known as “carrying” then all back in the day) even still in the rule book?

If it ever gets called, I'm sure GT would be the offender.

 

[Jack]

I think the 3 spot is a bit of a stretch - especially the way we play. But if he can hold defensive attention in the corner at the 4 spot that would be huge. And allow us to find a big more traditional 5 to play when needed.

You’ve seen it called at the college level?

It could be called a “Euro” dribble as in “Euro” step, which, in my day would have been called “walking”

 

[LargeFO]

All I know is if the old dudes back in the day could gallop 3-4 steps down the lane with no travels they would've scored a lot more. Haha

 

[gte447f]

You’ve seen it called at the college level?

The violation is actually a double dribble violation. When the ball comes to rest in a player's hand, the dribble has ended. When the player dribbles again it is a double dribble. I believe high school refs, and maybe college refs, call palming to add clarity to the call to make sure the players and coaches know what the dribbler did that was incorrect.

It has been 10-15 years since I have seen this called in a game. Should it be? You betcha!

Yes, I’ve seen it called occasionally.

 

[Techster]

LOL...I'm guilty of it myself, but we sure do get into the weeds arguing about the most inane sh!t

 

[gte447f]

LOL...I'm guilty of it myself, but we sure do get into the weeds arguing about the most inane sh!t

Helluva win, wasn’t it!?

 

[Dobeedobeedo]

Another damn good win Jackets. Keep up the fight!

 

[GTRX7]

Can we please drop the Sturdivant travel topic? He picked up his pivot foot (left foot) before he started his dribble. He did attempt to start his dribble but it never got off his body because his own arm got in the way and the defense was so tight.

It was a bang-bang call, and I think they got it right. However, even in the slow-mo you can see it’s almost impossible to tell. So I’m not gonna crucify the refs over this call, regardless of what you think the call should have been. If you see that replay and think Sturdivant CLEARLY started dribbling before picking up his pivot foot, I don’t know what to tell you other than you’re just a biased Tech fan.




Ref can’t just assume a player is starting his dribble if said player can’t get the ball off their own body.

To be fair, if you are going to slow it down like that, your replay shows a clear contact by the Wake defender on Kyle's arm/shoulder/(head?) before the travel. So, fine, they didn't miss a travel. But they missed clear foul. Better?

 

[senoiajacket]

Yes. And it looks like these kids are carrying the ball, but they're not. The ball has to come to rest in the hand with the palm facing upwards. They way they do it today, the ball doesn't stop spinning until the hand is back into position. I had a long discussion about this with a long-time college ref I know.

So if there hand is on the side of the ball and it is still spinning, even though “defying gravity” with no apparent vertical motion, this is not a violation?

 

[LongforDodd]

No. The smoke from Canada reached France but hasn’t been affecting the air much.

When you said Paris, I thought you meant Paris, TX. My mind doesn't go the Paris France when talking spring break. My bad.

 

[forensicbuzz]

So if there hand is on the side of the ball and it is still spinning, even though “defying gravity” with no apparent vertical motion, this is not a violation?

Correct. If the ball is spinning, the player is not holding the ball. Therefore, it's not a violation. If it comes to rest at any point with the palm of the hand under the equator of the ball, it is a violation. I think the refs just don't pay attention anymore because it's so hard to tell. Unless it's obvious, it doesn't get called.

 

[orientalnc]

So if there hand is on the side of the ball and it is still spinning, even though “defying gravity” with no apparent vertical motion, this is not a violation?

Correct. If the ball is spinning, the player is not holding the ball. Therefore, it's not a violation. If it comes to rest at any point with the palm of the hand under the equator of the ball, it is a violation. I think the refs just don't pay attention anymore because it's so hard to tell. Unless it's obvious, it doesn't get called.

This may be included in an interpretation of the rules for the officials. but it is not in the rules. Each conference may have their own interpretation and case plays guide book. I could not find one for the ACC online. I know the NCAA has one.

 

[gte447f]

Yes. And it looks like these kids are carrying the ball, but they're not. The ball has to come to rest in the hand with the palm facing upwards. They way they do it today, the ball doesn't stop spinning until the hand is back into position. I had a long discussion about this with a long-time college ref I know.

Correct. If the ball is spinning, the player is not holding the ball. Therefore, it's not a violation. If it comes to rest at any point with the palm of the hand under the equator of the ball, it is a violation. I think the refs just don't pay attention anymore because it's so hard to tell. Unless it's obvious, it doesn't get called.

This may be included in an interpretation of the rules for the officials. but it is not in the rules. Each conference may have their own interpretation and case plays guide book. I could not find one for the ACC online. I know the NCAA has one.

The rules simply say “a dribble ends when a dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.” So technically, carrying is a double dribble, but the ref usually uses a separate hand signal to indicate carrying/palming has been called as opposed to the regular double dribble signal when the ball is held with two hands.

The spinning interpretation is not explicit in the rules, and in my opinion the ball is not typically spinning while in contact with the hand while dribbling, so I personally don’t think this is the basis for not calling carrying as a violation. I simply think it’s not currently a point of emphasis in the modern game.

Great win Jackets! Let’s go get another one against the wahoos!

 

[senoiajacket]

The rules simply say “a dribble ends when a dribbler catches or carries/palms the ball by allowing it to come to rest in one or both hands.” So technically, carrying is a double dribble, but the ref usually uses a separate hand signal to indicate carrying/palming has been called as opposed to the regular double dribble signal when the ball is held with two hands.

The spinning interpretation is not explicit in the rules, and in my opinion the ball is not typically spinning while in contact with the hand while dribbling, so I personally don’t think this is the basis for not calling carrying as a violation. I simply think it’s not currently a point of emphasis in the modern game.

Great win Jackets! Let’s go get another one against the wahoos!

Yes it was a great win! I apologize for getting us side tracked. I’m “fascinated” how the rules and interpretations have evolved.