At WF, 3/5/2024 1st of Last Two Regular Season Games

senoiajacket

Helluva Engineer
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1,091
How about palming the ball? Some of these moves are blatant palming. If the hand goes over half way too the bottom of the ball it is being carried. The kids learned this on playgrounds and it was never called so now it has become accepted. It often allows a couple of steps between bounces. The refs are very liberal with allowing the pivot foot to drag or actually change to the other foot. The game is called very different today than when I played many years ago in HS. IMO fouls should only be called when one player gains an advantage over the other due to contact.
Why isn't Burns called for a charge when he literally is pushing/bumping his defender back a couple of feet with his body and then they call touch fouls.
Is palming (or also known as “carrying” then all back in the day) even still in the rule book?
 

LargeFO

Helluva Engineer
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3,214
Is palming (or also known as “carrying” then all back in the day) even still in the rule book?

My dad complains about this all the time. But I get it. When he played you got called for that kind of stuff really closely. Now it's just a joke.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,209
Good shooting night overcomes turnovers and FT disadvantage.

View attachment 15851
Awbuzz with the winning formula. And many of the shots by George were high arching floaters that are generally not tremendously high percentage shots. But he and Kelly shot us to this win.

Now it doesn't happen without the energy on defense and the boards. But shooting was the key.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,209
Ndongo's 3 pt shot shows a promising option for CDS. A big stepping out for a 3 is a huge weapon. Clemson's 2 bigs did it to us. With the addition of a big, Ndomgo could play 3-4 position.
I think the 3 spot is a bit of a stretch - especially the way we play. But if he can hold defensive attention in the corner at the 4 spot that would be huge. And allow us to find a big more traditional 5 to play when needed.
 

spdrama

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
372
My dad complains about this all the time. But I get it. When he played you got called for that kind of stuff really closely. Now it's just a joke.
I think referees on all levels have been educated on this rule so you have not seen it called in many years. When I played HS ball, 60 years ago, if your dribbling hand was under the ball and rolled it over to the top, as todays players do, it was a “carry” offense known as “palming”. Carrying actually means movement with the ball being “grabbed” or held at any moment during dribbling. So, palming itself, without grabbing or holding the ball is not a violation. I might not have this right and/or my understanding might be incorrect, but I think that is how this look has become acceptable. I cannot recall a whistle for palming in ages.
 

apatriot1776

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
185
This is cool, but what the hell are 1A and 1B?
In college basketball, the NET rankings (NCAA's replacement for RPI) use quadrants to determine the strength of a team's wins and losses, which divide win strength into quadrants. Quad 1 is commonly known, but the NCAAT also have access to Quad 1A and 1B stats. Quad 1A is defined as a Home win vs. teams ranked 1-15 / Neutral win vs. teams ranked 1-25 / Road win vs. teams ranked 1-40. Quad 1 (1A and 1B inclusive) is defined as a Home win vs. teams ranked 1-30 / Neutral win vs. teams ranked 1-50 / Road win vs. teams ranked 1-75.

We have 1A wins vs. Duke, vs. UNC, @Clemson, @Wake and a 1A loss @Duke.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,767
How about palming the ball? Some of these moves are blatant palming. If the hand goes over half way too the bottom of the ball it is being carried. The kids learned this on playgrounds and it was never called so now it has become accepted. It often allows a couple of steps between bounces. The refs are very liberal with allowing the pivot foot to drag or actually change to the other foot. The game is called very different today than when I played many years ago in HS. IMO fouls should only be called when one player gains an advantage over the other due to contact.
Why isn't Burns called for a charge when he literally is pushing/bumping his defender back a couple of feet with his body and then they call touch fouls.
Glad you mentioned palming. I wondered if I was misremembering that call from my youth. Sure looks different today.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
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9,767
I think referees on all levels have been educated on this rule so you have not seen it called in many years. When I played HS ball, 60 years ago, if your dribbling hand was under the ball and rolled it over to the top, as todays players do, it was a “carry” offense known as “palming”. Carrying actually means movement with the ball being “grabbed” or held at any moment during dribbling. So, palming itself, without grabbing or holding the ball is not a violation. I might not have this right and/or my understanding might be incorrect, but I think that is how this look has become acceptable. I cannot recall a whistle for palming in ages.
I’m old enough to remember an old Harlem Globtrotter shtick where a player would walk down the court turning the ball over on a high arc every time he took a step, hand above pushing the dribble down, hand beneath lifting the ball high on each bounce. And the refs, as part of the performance, would go nuts, blowing whistles and waving arms.
 

LargeFO

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,214
I think referees on all levels have been educated on this rule so you have not seen it called in many years. When I played HS ball, 60 years ago, if your dribbling hand was under the ball and rolled it over to the top, as todays players do, it was a “carry” offense known as “palming”. Carrying actually means movement with the ball being “grabbed” or held at any moment during dribbling. So, palming itself, without grabbing or holding the ball is not a violation. I might not have this right and/or my understanding might be incorrect, but I think that is how this look has become acceptable. I cannot recall a whistle for palming in ages.

Yea, I think his beef is more with travels/double dribbles basically becoming extinct as well. If it's not part of being called anymore than why have it in the rules anymore?
 

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
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You can be so ferocious sometimes.


season 5 000 patties under the sea GIF by SpongeBob SquarePants

An evening with Debbie does that to me. Smh
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,473
Yea, I think his beef is more with travels/double dribbles basically becoming extinct as well. If it's not part of being called anymore than why have it in the rules anymore?
So they can call it in a critical situation, just like that call for traveling against Sturdivant in the last minute. He was being fouled for God sakes. Did they want a bubble team to win? Were they playing to the home crowd? Sure seemed like it.
We have got to get better at inbound plays on the baseline. Teams are double teaming entry passes into the corner where they trap. Almost impossible to dribble out of. Has happened all season and will continue until we make a change. We were very fortunate to win last night with the mistakes we made late in the game, but they can be corrected.
 

spdrama

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
372
Yea, I think his beef is more with travels/double dribbles basically becoming extinct as well. If it's not part of being called anymore than why have it in the rules anymore?
Years ago basketball was played so much slower. The game today is so fast, and players so agile/athletic taking such long steps & leaps to cover significant distance on the court, that it is just too difficult to always spot a travel without watching a replay. Refs don’t have that luxury & have to make that call in real time. Tough to do sometimes. But to make a call, like the one on the inbound to Sturdivant at the end of last night’s game is just inexplicable to me. I watched that over & over and see nothing even close to a travel.
 

orientalnc

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Retired Staff
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I have never seen the NBA rule book, but it is in the NCAA rule book under RULE 9 / Violations and Penalties:

"Section 5. Traveling
Art. 1. A player shall not travel with the ball.
Art. 2. Traveling occurs when a player holding the ball moves a foot or both feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits described in this section.
Art. 3. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the playing court may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
Art. 4. A player who catches the ball while moving or ends a dribble may stop and establish a pivot foot as follows: a. When both feet are off the playing court and the player lands: 1. Simultaneously on both feet, either may be the pivot foot; 2. On one foot followed by the other, the first foot to touch shall be the pivot foot; 3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can be the pivot foot. b. When one foot is on the playing court: 1. That foot shall be the pivot foot when the other foot touches in a step; 2. The player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both, in which case neither foot can be the pivot foot.
Art. 5. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot: a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal; b. The pivot foot shall not be lifted before the ball is released to start a dribble.
Art. 6. After coming to a stop when neither foot can be the pivot foot: a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal; b. Neither foot shall be lifted, before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
Art. 7. It is traveling when a player falls to the playing court while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot."

The question for Ted Valentine, who called it a held ball, was whether Kelly had control of the ball while falling.
 

alagold

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,533
Location
Huntsville,Al
Very impressive turn-around the last 3 games--this one espcially.Taking Wake at their Home and getting almost ZERO foul calls is amazing.I wonder the last time an ACC team shots only TWO FTs in a game.
 

gte447f

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
931
I think referees on all levels have been educated on this rule so you have not seen it called in many years. When I played HS ball, 60 years ago, if your dribbling hand was under the ball and rolled it over to the top, as todays players do, it was a “carry” offense known as “palming”. Carrying actually means movement with the ball being “grabbed” or held at any moment during dribbling. So, palming itself, without grabbing or holding the ball is not a violation. I might not have this right and/or my understanding might be incorrect, but I think that is how this look has become acceptable. I cannot recall a whistle for palming in ages.
Palming is still called occasionally, but it is very, very infrequent. I have seen it called a handful (no pun intended) of times in the past few years, maybe once or twice per season, depending on how much bball I watch.
 
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