As Bad as It Was

stech81

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,899
Location
Woodstock Georgia
Yea I should've just ignored his comments on the whole Roof scenario. He has every right to complain as we all do, even if we don't agree.

Monty, my apologies mate.

There was a lot of frustration on the board yesterday from everyone.
Sometimes after a loss it's better to wait a day or two to say anything. I wish I could follow my rule but like most a loss hurts so bad I start to vent , then a day later I wish I had keep my month closed.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
I confess that after the first quarter when i thought it obvious we could not score enough points to win this game -- how often does one get 68, anyway? -- I turned it off in favor of grocery shopping. Just utterly depressing, but pricing a pound of coffee is easier than watching the Little Big Horn running on a loop. I know little of Xs and Os. But I do wonder, as a long time fan, when the head ball coach simplifies his play calls for his senior QB, and now is saying the defense has to be simplified, what in the wide world of sports is going on? Did we not have the exact same issue with Al Groh and his 3-4 defense? And while I know GT folks can get kind of full of yourselves -- 'fess up, you know it is true -- it seems a given that one has to be kind of smart to get into the joint, even football players, though from all reports the players graduate from this fine institution. So what is there about our scheme that is so baffling every Saturday, though the other 127 teams in FBS seem to adapt? Aren't instructions included? I do not mean to seem smarmy. But one should not require zero defects just to have a chance. I don't understand it.
 

alagold

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,732
Location
Huntsville,Al
on defense, this stat tells the story:

Corey Griffin had as many tackles individually as our LBs had collectively (12). To make matters worse, the players in the secondary, collectively, more than tripled the number of tackles by the LBs. I know we were playing a 4-2-5, but c'mon.

Chuck RC has started last 2 games and I believe was in on ONE tackle in 2 games! also, I think KCH is only DT with a tackle vs unc.We are LAST in NATION in 3rd down DEf %.We are in worst 10% in every def stat just about.
There seems to be a problem.
 

JorgeJonas

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,147
I confess that after the first quarter when i thought it obvious we could not score enough points to win this game -- how often does one get 68, anyway? -- I turned it off in favor of grocery shopping. Just utterly depressing, but pricing a pound of coffee is easier than watching the Little Big Horn running on a loop. I know little of Xs and Os. But I do wonder, as a long time fan, when the head ball coach simplifies his play calls for his senior QB, and now is saying the defense has to be simplified, what in the wide world of sports is going on? Did we not have the exact same issue with Al Groh and his 3-4 defense? And while I know GT folks can get kind of full of yourselves -- 'fess up, you know it is true -- it seems a given that one has to be kind of smart to get into the joint, even football players, though from all reports the players graduate from this fine institution. So what is there about our scheme that is so baffling every Saturday, though the other 127 teams in FBS seem to adapt? Aren't instructions included? I do not mean to seem smarmy. But one should not require zero defects just to have a chance. I don't understand it.
Do the players at other schools adapt? Seems like a bit of question begging.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Do the players at other schools adapt? Seems like a bit of question begging.
Well, they seem to play some defense. It appears sometimes that we put 11 guys out on defense because the rules say we have to. It does not seem reasonable to me that of 85 scholarships available we cannot find 11 who can play defense, and have not for years. Maybe my friend the GT grad was right: Tech just doesn't attract the Big Nasties.
 

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
4,938
Well, they seem to play some defense. It appears sometimes that we put 11 guys out on defense because the rules say we have to. It does not seem reasonable to me that of 85 scholarships available we cannot find 11 who can play defense, and have not for years. Maybe my friend the GT grad was right: Tech just doesn't attract the Big Nasties.

I keep going back to this riddle/enigma/puzzle - over the last 2 decades, why have we been really, really good on just one side of the ball and equally putrid on the other. On the surface it would appear that we can get 1/2 the athletes that other schools get and so have to load up on one side or the other. However, I don't buy that theory even though Occam's razor suggest that I should. go back just a little further than our last 3 guys and we had one who was not good in any area and one who was great in all 3 major phases of the game. Interestingly enough, that guy won a NC. And had great assistant coaches. For the life of me, the riddle of being good on only one side of the ball remains the greatest unsolved mystery to me outside of Amelia Earhart and Sasquatch.Plus,also, how I managed to get a C in dynamics. I think that was a grading error as I left the final hoping for a D.
 

COJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
794
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
I keep going back to this riddle/enigma/puzzle - over the last 2 decades, why have we been really, really good on just one side of the ball and equally putrid on the other. On the surface it would appear that we can get 1/2 the athletes that other schools get and so have to load up on one side or the other. However, I don't buy that theory even though Occam's razor suggest that I should. go back just a little further than our last 3 guys and we had one who was not good in any area and one who was great in all 3 major phases of the game. Interestingly enough, that guy won a NC. And had great assistant coaches. For the life of me, the riddle of being good on only one side of the ball remains the greatest unsolved mystery to me outside of Amelia Earhart and Sasquatch.Plus,also, how I managed to get a C in dynamics. I think that was a grading error as I left the final hoping for a D.
And even Ross had some bad to mediocre years beside the NC. Remember year after was a large disappointment given the "expectations "
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,326
Location
Auburn, AL
Interesting thread.

It reminds me of Alabama's 1992 Defense Control Chart. Gene Stalling used it to set very clear expectations on how many sacks, tipped passes, etc he expected to see each game week and year to date.

Simple theory. You have a great defense because you expect a great defense. Practice is to address those areas underperforming plan. Recruit good athletes and coach them. A lot.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,491
Do you even look at game scores to other games? Lots and lots of bad D out there.

Agree, but we're in the bottom 30 or so defenses this year. If we were "average bad" then I'd agree, but we're on the tail end of the curve, and we've been below average for years. If it were luck, we'd have above average years in there somewhere.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

MWBATL

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,530
Agree, but we're in the bottom 30 or so defenses this year. If we were "average bad" then I'd agree, but we're on the tail end of the curve, and we've been below average for years. If it were luck, we'd have above average years in there somewhere.

Actually a better measuring stick is the Power 5 conferences, and we are in the bottom 5 amongst all Power 5 teams. I don't think it is appropriate to compare ourselves to Akron, Tulsa and New Mexico State....being better than those programs isn't what we aspire to. But it would be nice to be as good as teams like Wake Forest on defense (hint: we'r not close).

Before the UNC game, the only programs with worse defenses were Oregon (no excuse for that program to be that bad), Iowa State (makes sense), Purdue and Texas Tech. Everyone gave up over 40 last weekend...except Iowa State (34 to Oklahoma)..so we may be in the Bottom 4 now.
 
Last edited:

sidewalkGTfan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,276
Actually a better measuring stick is the Power 5 conferences, and we are in the bottom 5 amongst all Power 5 teams. I don't think it is appropriate to compare ourselves to Akron, Tulsa and New Mexico State....being better than those programs isn't what we aspire to. But it would be nice to be as good as teams like Wake Forest on defense (hint: we'r not close).
Their DC interviewed for the GT DC job back when Roof was hired. Oh what might've been...
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,326
Location
Auburn, AL
I thought this was an interesting observation from a Duke fan re their coaching change ... the last lines sum it up:

A lot, and I can speak from experience here. Duke fired Ted Roof after the 2007 season and hired David Cutcliffe. For context, Roof went 6-45. The coach before him, Carl Franks, went 7-45. We'd won 4 games in the 4 years before Cutcliffe was hired, including one conference win (thank you, 2004 Clemson). David Cutcliffe won 4 games in his first year and 5 in his second (our most wins in a 2-year period since 1994-95). That part of the improvement came from just being a better in-game coach than we'd had in a long time.

We won 3 games each in his 3rd and 4th seasons. They were transition years of sorts, but in year 4 we caught a few bad breaks (some self-inflicted) that cost us. But Year 5, the 2012 season, was the breakthrough. We won 6 games and went to our first bowl game in 18 years--and that sixth win was a last-minute win over Carolina for the first time since 2003. At this point, virtually all of the players in the system were Cutcliffe recruits and guys who'd never been coached by Ted Roof. This is part 2 of what a good coach does: Better recruiting over time.

Between Year 5 and Year 6 (last year), Duke announced a capital campaign for the university as a whole, with significant funding for improvements to the athletic facilities. Part of that was the biggest improvements to Wallace Wade Stadium in its 84-year history. Some of the bleachers are being replaced with seats, the track is being taken out, the field is going to be lowered, and the final stage is to eventually close the horseshoe into a bowl.

That is the hidden third part of what a good coach can do for a program. A good coach revitalizes a program and makes it worth spending money on. Before we hired Coach Cutcliffe, the athletic department didn't care all that much about the football program and kind of let it rot. They read the tea leaves and saw that football was becoming more and more important, and that it might not be a viable option for a major athletic department to have a useless football program. Cutcliffe was actually the program's first outside hire for head football coach since Fred Goldsmith in 1994. They provided Coach Cut with a lot of investments just to get the program up to par--replacing the 80-yard practice field with a full-length one, for example. We gave him the resources he needed to improve the program, and he's given us a program worth making bigger investments in.

Not every coach can take these resources and do what Coach Cutcliffe has done with them. He's gone beyond our wildest dreams in such a short amount of time. But what Coach Cutcliffe has done for us is dramatically improve our win-loss record, improve our recruiting, improve our facilities, re-engage the fans in a program that may as well have been dead just seven years ago.

That's what a good coach can do for a bad program.
 

Jmonty71

Banned
Messages
2,156
Yea I should've just ignored his comments on the whole Roof scenario. He has every right to complain as we all do, even if we don't agree.

Monty, my apologies mate.

There was a lot of frustration on the board yesterday from everyone.
I can be down right crude, at times, for that I apologize. However; I have been against Roof, since day one. I knew what he brought to the table. Not to mention, I have a PSU grad, as my boss, that gave me fair warning. He said that the PSU fan base was calling for him to be fired for years. After looking at the scheme that he was bringing, I knew we were going to have issues. That's only because I played, taught and coached defense. I see the blame on the kids for not being skilled enough, athletic enough, fast enough, etc; However; when it comes down to it. Roof is forcing the kids to fill a mold that they just can't fill. A good DC forms his defense around the talent he has, not the other way around. Roof is set in his ways. It's the style he coached since the 80s. However; offenses today are far more sophisticated then they were 35 years ago.
 

Recleb

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
54
"He said that the PSU fan base was calling for him to be fired for years." After 1 year as DC?

You slip some of that Hatorade to your boss as well?
 

GTonTop88

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,013
Location
Gibson, GA
If we would change our personnel on the DL I honestly believe we would be much better. I know we couldn't be any worse. Hell put Shamire in at DT some just to clog up the middle. We could have the best scheme in the world but if your light up front your gonna get dominated no matter what. Id rather be less talented in the trenches and have some size than more talented and undersized.
 

stingyoa$$

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
274
There are many bad defenses out there but what I have a hard time wrapping my brain around is why here at GT? I can understand a school like Wyoming having a bad defense, there in the middle of nowhere....but GT? Too much talent in these parts to not have 7 or 8 "big uglies" on our D line every year. We just have to dig deeper in recruiting.
 

GTRX7

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,524
Location
Atlanta
There are many bad defenses out there but what I have a hard time wrapping my brain around is why here at GT? I can understand a school like Wyoming having a bad defense, there in the middle of nowhere....but GT? Too much talent in these parts to not have 7 or 8 "big uglies" on our D line every year. We just have to dig deeper in recruiting.

Pretty sure you answered your own question. The "big uglies" are the rarest, most sought after, hardest players to recruit in the country, and we are not in the middle of nowhere, but surrounded almost immediately by UGA, FSU, AU, AL, CU, UF, etc. Plus, as discussed ad nauseam, the "big uglies" are also the hardest to get academically qualified.
 
Top