Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

[Peacone36]

Not surprised ... If someone would have asked me to list the schools that I thought were playing "dirty", my list would have included all the schools on the "A" and "B" list except Arizona and add LSU.

Of all the schools on the list I think USCe surprised me the most

 

[kg01]

Of all the schools on the list I think USCe surprised me the most

Any school in the SEC that suddenly becomes a basketball power should draw major suspicion.

 

[gtpi]

any chance this boils over into football?

 

[Techster]

I thought this was hilarious
View attachment 2934

Adidas logo, or Nike logo?

This whole situation would be funny AF if Russell was behind the whole darn thing.

Adidas, Nike, UA: Let's see, GT is the lone holdout. Let's all go pay them a visit....

Russell: Stay away guys, or else....

Adidas, Nike, UA: LOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Adidas, Nike, UA: How you doin' GT?

GT: What's up guys!

Nike: $
UA: $$
Adidas: $$$$

GT: Bye, Russell....How you doin' Adidas!

Russell: Yo, FBI....I got some playbooks for you...

 

[RonJohn]

The idea is that the school was defrauded because awarding knowingly ineligible players athletic scholarships deprived the school of offering this limited resource to other students. Now, really, the schools are taking huge damage (e.g. Louisville) as part of the fraud, although perhaps they wouldn't have without the criminal charges. There are some people who were clearly harmed, though. Lots of athletes with their noses clean were deprived of an educational opportunity by awarding scholarships to players who were knowingly ineligible.

The defense could also argue that a school official(assistant coaches) were the ones setting up the payments. Therefore, the school knew full well the eligibility issues. The person making the payments could not be committing fraud against the school if agents of the school were the ones actively pressuring the person to make the payments. I didn't watch the press conference, but what I gathered from the clips I saw and what I read was that NCAA coaches, shoe companies, financial planners, and AAU coaches are very seedy people that we should put in prison. Then there was a lot of hand waiving to something proposed as illegal. I read the statute that Gatto supposedly violated. I read the actions in the indictment that he supposedly committed. Even if he did everything stated in the indictment, I don't see how he violated the statute. I have also read several news and opinion pieces that also conclude that it is a very wildly constructed scenario to conclude a crime was committed:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/27/why-is-the-fbi-trying-to-enforce-ncaa-rules/


In Georgia it is illegal to propose a business transaction with a student athlete. If I offer a summer job to a student-athlete that pays more than the NCAA would allow them to make, I could go to jail. In my opinion that is ridiculous. If the NCAA changes their rules, not any actual law, and lowered the amount that a student-athlete can earn and I offered a student-athlete the same amount for a summer job that I offered last year, I could go to jail. If a student-athlete accepts gifts or awards that could cause him to be declared ineligible, that is on the athlete. The arbitrary rules of a third party organization should not decide whether I break the law or not, it should be decided by legal statue and first party agreements.

 

[orientalnc]

I am not sure about the Georgia law. In NC the law was drafted to protect state universities from having outside parties interfere with transactions between the institutions and prospective students. You can argue how certain scenarios play out, but I think the state has a legitimate interest in protecting themselves from third party interference.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Eugene Talmadge, then governor of Georgia, once counseled his son, Herman, later governor, senator and drunk the whole time. "Hummin" was threatening to sue the AJC for writing bad things about him in the late '40s. "Hummin, don't you never sue no newspaper for libel. They might prove it."

So they might want to put the brakes on threats unless they want to spend hours and hours in depositions ... and everything comes out.

Gene Talmadge also once said no man is worth more than fifty cents a day.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Gene Talmadge also once said no man is worth more than fifty cents a day.

During the depression, he was probably right.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

Reading between the lines, Louisville and a few others are Marquis schools for shoe companies. Does anyone believe this stops with basketball? Can you vacate a Heisman? Seems like this came up with Reggie Bush?

The entire concept boggles the mind. But this shoe obsession, to me unfathomable, is genuine. Several years ago a co-worker a generation younger than I, was purchasing Nike's---two pairs, one to wear and one to keep in the box in his closet in pristine condition. And these were $170.00 a pop. And there is no denying that we live in a country where people will kill another human being just for their sneakers. This is more than a fashion statement, this is a mania for stuff. Even Pitino once opined that he was in disbelief, but it was factual that recruits made decision based on shoe brands---and of course, cold cash.

 

[RonJohn]

I am not sure about the Georgia law. In NC the law was drafted to protect state universities from having outside parties interfere with transactions between the institutions and prospective students. You can argue how certain scenarios play out, but I think the state has a legitimate interest in protecting themselves from third party interference.

The Georgia law came about because UGA fans wanted the sports memorabilia dealer who paid Todd Gurley for autographs to be arrested. The state legislature member who drafted the law actually said that it wasn't fair that the student-athlete was punished by the NCAA, but the person who paid him walked away scott free.

I think in all of this situation and other situations too, too many people do not understand that the NCAA is not a government enforcement arm. People continuously talk about "illegal" payments to players when they discuss NCAA infractions even though they are only violations of organizational rules, not legal issues. People call for the NCAA to investigate pedophilia at Penn State and rape at Baylor instead of having the police investigate them and put people in jail. There is a very large difference in breaking club rules and breaking the law. If NCAA rules are broken, but no laws, the NCAA should investigate but the police shouldn't. If laws were broken, but no NCAA rules, the police should investigate and the NCAA should stay out of their way. If both are violated, the NCAA should stay out of the way of law enforcement until they have conducted their investigation and then investigate themselves.

EDIT: Another thing about your comment on the NC law. What do you mean by third party influence? If an 18 year old basketball player wants to sign with an agent and play in Europe, that would be third party influence. However, it isn't up to the state or schools to limit his decision and force him into school.

 

[Jean-Baptiste Rochambeau]

During the depression, he was probably right.

Fomenting class envy among the rural agricultural class and the urban elite .

 

[Peacone36]

If someone posted this already I apologize. Thought it was interesting

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/arti...-ncaa-s-dirty-work-in-college-basketball-case

 

[JDjacket]

just Paul telling it like it is.

 

[YJMD]

There's enough there that has lead to arrests and subpoenas, so at least one judge has signed off on the idea that the activity is in violation of federal code. Personally, I don't care so much about justice in the courts except to hopefully uncover the dirty programs and clean things up. Even if the NCAA wanted to do this, they lack the resources, subpoena capacity, and threat of prison time to enforce their own rules. Perhaps this investigation leads to little actual criminal punishment, but good would come of coaches and reps understanding that risk to be real.

 

[orientalnc]

EDIT: Another thing about your comment on the NC law. What do you mean by third party influence? If an 18 year old basketball player wants to sign with an agent and play in Europe, that would be third party influence. However, it isn't up to the state or schools to limit his decision and force him into school.

I don't think I said "influence," but it probably doesn't matter. I am not an attorney, so the technical issues are over my head. What I read in the N&O at the time was that the legislature wanted to make it illegal to interfere with a scholarship offer in a way that made the player ineligible to play (even if it went undetected). The rationale was that the university was making an offer of a scholarship in exchange for participation on the university's team. If you do something, like pay the recruit to attend NC State instead of UNC, or buy the recruit a nice new car to drive in exchange for being his agent should he become a pro, you have interfered with the state's transaction with the student. I do not completely agree with this, so I don't want to argue the finer points.

 

[Fatmike91]

The players most likely to be taking money are the one-and-dones.

What schools have attracts the most one-and-dones in the last 5+ years????

Makes it you wonder how far this goes. Who do the Feds want to bring down? A hall of fame coach or two?

/

 

[Deleted member 2897]

The players most likely to be taking money are the one-and-dones.

What schools have attracts the most one-and-dones in the last 5+ years????

Makes it you wonder how far this goes. Who do the Feds want to bring down? A hall of fame coach or two?

/

Whatever anybody thinks about bad actors, paying athletes, cutting corners, etc. – if there are coaches who are committing felonies like tax evasion, they should absolutely go to prison.

On a sidenote, I am posting this via voice to text on my phone, and when I first dictated it, the words came out as tax of Asian. Is my iPhone racist?

 

[orientalnc]

If the one & dones are the only ones getting paid (is that a safe assumption?) then it certainly narrows the scope of the investigation. At least in the near term. I am not sure a 17 y/o football player can be forecast into the NFL with same accuracy as a 17 y/o basketball player can be forecast into the NBA draft's first round. There has to be a payoff risk/return ratio that makes sense at the end of every deal.

 

[kg01]

If the one & dones are the only ones getting paid (is that a safe assumption?) then it certainly narrows the scope of the investigation. At least in the near term. I am not sure a 17 y/o football player can be forecast into the NFL with same accuracy as a 17 y/o basketball player can be forecast into the NBA draft's first round. There has to be a payoff risk/return ratio that makes sense at the end of every deal.

There is no way the only guys getting paid are 1-and-done's.

 

[Connell62]

There is no way the only guys getting paid are 1-and-done's.

Pretty sure that Bowen wasn't projected to be one and done.