Arizona HC Search and Pastner Implications

[dtm1997]

And he was a terrible fit at BC btw...
Miller is the logical target if Pastner were to depart.

I guess you could golden parachute a coach...again. But I insist that we stop effing doing that

Grant is an odd fit at BC, given some of the other regional candidates. I liked his potential fit at GT, given a good record at CofC and his ability to recruit ATL and the Southeast.

Agree, I'd like to not take on someone else's problem next time, but hopefully CJP keeps up this momentum.

 

[Peacone36]

Grant is an odd fit at BC, given some of the other regional candidates. I liked his potential fit at GT, given a good record at CofC and his ability to recruit ATL and the Southeast.

I pegged him to succeed Pastner, Brownell or Martin. He will depend heavily upon staff hires to recruit at BC. I assume Spinelli is gone which will has already hurt in terms of the portal.

 

[slugboy]

As he should.

Fwiw, The UA 247 site has CJP as 4th on their hot board behind Miles Simon, who they characterize a distant 3rd.

They believe Tommy Lloyd is headed towards a Monday intro as HC with Stoudemire as 2nd choice if it falls apart.

Nothing to see here outside of a courtesy interview. Lloyd was the target the entire way.

Hiring is either easy, or it’s a big mess. If it’s easy, you hire one of your first choices out of the gate.

I’ll pretend to be an AD for 5 minutes. There’s an “A” tier (Lloyd and Stoudemire) that Arizona will hire if all goes well, and a “B” tier (Pastner and Simon) if the process starts to fall apart, and a “C” tier we haven’t heard if two of the three aircraft engines catch fire. Then there’s the “crash landing” hires of unthinkable names that happen when the process goes to h*** and the AD has to resign afterwards.

I wouldn’t stack rank 1,2,3,4. There are ranges of hires that work. Pastner isn’t a courtesy interview, but he’s not plan A. He’s probably a 15-20% shot at getting hired—mainly if Lloyd and Stoudemire both get cold feet. Which can happen, with sanctions looming.

 

[lv20gt]

Definitely not a guy who took 6 years at UNCG to have his first winning season.

Man that's a shallow take.

UNCG had records of 5-25, 8-23, 7-24 the three years prior so even his first several years were marked improvements over where they were.

He also took over a team that was 2-8 mid year and went 11-11 with them. That's mid year as in with the same players.

The last 5 years he's 125-43 or 74%.

 

[Peacone36]

Hiring is either easy, or it’s a big mess. If it’s easy, you hire one of your first choices out of the gate.

I’ll pretend to be an AD for 5 minutes. There’s an “A” tier (Lloyd and Stoudemire) that Arizona will hire if all goes well, and a “B” tier (Pastner and Simon) if the process starts to fall apart, and a “C” tier we haven’t heard if two of the three aircraft engines catch fire. Then there’s the “crash landing” hires of unthinkable names that happen when the process goes to h*** and the AD has to resign afterwards.

I wouldn’t stack rank 1,2,3,4. There are ranges of hires that work. Pastner isn’t a courtesy interview, but he’s not plan A. He’s probably a 15-20% shot at getting hired—mainly if Lloyd and Stoudemire both get cold feet. Which can happen, with sanctions looming.

As someone who talks to both Arizona and Gonzaga people, Pastner was never a legit target. It was Lloyd all the way.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Very interesting. I’d love to hear three coaches you’d prefer above Wes Miller

When someone flames your opinion, especially without offering any other names, I think that’s a fair ask. I’m flying across the country so I’ll get you a list, but it won’t be now. Generally speaking, I think assistant coaches at bigger programs and head coaches at mid majors are who we should target. With where we have gotten ourselves to, I don’t think we need to reach that far down.

CJP took over a team that was supposed to go winless in the ACC in year 1, and maybe only win 3 games in year 2. We gave him 4-5 years to get us into the tourney and upper third of the conference, not just to play 0.500 ball.

 

[Peacone36]

When someone flames your opinion, especially without offering any other names, I think that’s a fair ask. I’m flying across the country so I’ll get you a list, but it won’t be now. Generally speaking, I think assistant coaches at bigger programs and head coaches at mid majors are who we should target. With where we have gotten ourselves to, I don’t think we need to reach that far down.

CJP took over a team that was supposed to go winless in the ACC in year 1, and maybe only win 3 games in year 2. We gave him 4-5 years to get us into the tourney and upper third of the conference, not just to play 0.500 ball.

Haha. Nicely done. The names are? I like the meat baby, none of this “look over here”.

it’s ok to be confused by the initial comment. There are ZERO better candidates for a southeast job than Wes Miller. Cut, dry, booked. It’s done. The success he’s had at Greensboro warrants the opportunity of our level.

that said....your trepidation embodies our administrations failure throughout the years. Yes, Pastner worked out so far but he was a bad hire. I maintain that stance. Swartz and Rev have been god sends.

 

[dtm1997]

When someone flames your opinion, especially without offering any other names, I think that’s a fair ask. I’m flying across the country so I’ll get you a list, but it won’t be now. Generally speaking, I think assistant coaches at bigger programs and head coaches at mid majors are who we should target. With where we have gotten ourselves to, I don’t think we need to reach that far down.

CJP took over a team that was supposed to go winless in the ACC in year 1, and maybe only win 3 games in year 2. We gave him 4-5 years to get us into the tourney and upper third of the conference, not just to play 0.500 ball.

Looking forward to your ideas.

To be clear, I'm fine with where we are right now, but it's always nice to think about who you'd chase if it opened up.

 

[gt24]

that said....your trepidation embodies our administrations failure throughout the years. Yes, Pastner worked out so far but he was a bad hire. I maintain that stance. Swartz and Rev have been god sends.

I'm sure you have written about it before, but I missed it, and I'm curious to hear more details... what are the details behind how and why Swartz and Rev have been so crucial? (I'm not doubting it or questioning it in any way. I just want to hear more of the how and why. Perhaps it's as simple as "Rev has elevated mid-level recruits to ACC-quality bigs. Swartz is now bringing in more high-level recruits." Those facts alone are crucial, but I'm just curious to hear if it is even more than that.)

 

[orientalnc]

Looking forward to your ideas.

To be clear, I'm fine with where we are right now, but it's always nice to think about who you'd chase if it opened up.

I know this was not directed at me, but hijacking conversations is something I find occasionally useful. At one point in the not too distant past there were a number of mid-major coaches in the SE who's star was clearly on the rise: Greg Marshall, Kevin Keats, John Kresse, etc. Now we have Wes Miller, Pat Kelsey, and ??? The best mid-major coaches are elsewhere and recruiting takes time to develop relationships. I think the reason you see Wes Miller's name so much recently is that the pool in the SE seems pretty shallow right now. Ritchie McKay seems to like it at Liberty (he just signed a new contract); I like Casey Alexander a lot, but it's probably too early for him right now; Rob Lanier may turn out to be a rising star; but my list is pretty short.

Edit: I do not think GT has ever stolen a winning coach from another power conference school. Correct me if I am wrong.

Edit #2: Pastner was like a kid's bike you see leaning against the mail box with a "Free to a good home" sign attached.

 

[MidtownJacket]

I'm sure you have written about it before, but I missed it, and I'm curious to hear more details... what are the details behind how and why Swartz and Rev have been so crucial? (I'm not doubting it or questioning it in any way. I just want to hear more of the how and why. Perhaps it's as simple as "Rev has elevated mid-level recruits to ACC-quality bigs. Swartz is now bringing in more high-level recruits." Those facts alone are crucial, but I'm just curious to hear if it is even more than that.)

I think rev has been worth his weight in gold for the development of our bigs alone. Throw in some of the positive press he has gotten for his belief in building the guys up outside the game and it’s clear he is a recruiting value.

Recently we have been hearing more about the work Swartz puts in in scouting and game planning combined with the development and relationships he has with the players and he is also important.

 

[augustabuzz]

I know this was not directed at me, but hijacking conversations is something I find occasionally useful. At one point in the not too distant past there were a number of mid-major coaches in the SE who's star was clearly on the rise: Greg Marshall, Kevin Keats, John Kresse, etc. Now we have Wes Miller, Pat Kelsey, and ??? The best mid-major coaches are elsewhere and recruiting takes time to develop relationships. I think the reason you see Wes Miller's name so much recently is that the pool in the SE seems pretty shallow right now. Ritchie McKay seems to like it at Liberty (he just signed a new contract); I like Casey Alexander a lot, but it's probably too early for him right now; Rob Lanier may turn out to be a rising star; but my list is pretty short.

Edit: I do not think GT has ever stolen a winning coach from another power conference school. Correct me if I am wrong.

Edit #2: Pastner was like a kid's bike you see leaning against the mail box with a "Free to a good home" sign attached.

Heisman from Clemson.

 

[orientalnc]

Heisman from Clemson.

Thanks, that's one. But, was Clemson a power conference team at that time?

 

[augustabuzz]

Thanks, that's one. But, was Clemson a power conference team at that time?

Yes, and before Clemson, it was Auburn. Go back and look at our scores against those two for the five years before he came to Tech.

 

[orientalnc]

Yes, and before Clemson, it was Auburn. Go back and look at our scores against those two for the five years before he came to Tech.

Yes. You are correct. Thanks.

So, it's been ~100 years. I suggest that it's possible the college hierarchy was different from today. When he left GT he went to Penn, then Washington & Jefferson.

 

[ncjacket79]

Definitely not a guy who took 6 years at UNCG to have his first winning season.

You clearly have no idea what shape UNCG was in when he took over. Plus he has won 20+ each of the last 5 years. I’d take him in a heartbeat

 

[smokey_wasp]

Happy to have Pastner stay. Just keep the extension reasonable and incentive heavy.

 

[augustabuzz]

Yes. You are correct. Thanks.

So, it's been ~100 years. I suggest that it's possible the college hierarchy was different from today. When he left GT he went to Penn, then Washington & Jefferson.

True, but Ga Tech is the only place he had an extended stay.

 

[smokey_wasp]

I know this was not directed at me, but hijacking conversations is something I find occasionally useful. At one point in the not too distant past there were a number of mid-major coaches in the SE who's star was clearly on the rise: Greg Marshall, Kevin Keats, John Kresse, etc. Now we have Wes Miller, Pat Kelsey, and ??? The best mid-major coaches are elsewhere and recruiting takes time to develop relationships. I think the reason you see Wes Miller's name so much recently is that the pool in the SE seems pretty shallow right now. Ritchie McKay seems to like it at Liberty (he just signed a new contract); I like Casey Alexander a lot, but it's probably too early for him right now; Rob Lanier may turn out to be a rising star; but my list is pretty short.

Edit: I do not think GT has ever stolen a winning coach from another power conference school. Correct me if I am wrong.

Edit #2: Pastner was like a kid's bike you see leaning against the mail box with a "Free to a good home" sign attached.

If you include football, Ross would qualify

 

[orientalnc]

If you include football, Ross would qualify

I did not specify, and you are correct.