Are the 2014 and 2015 OLs Bigger, Better, or Both?

[Boomergump]

I thought there was a good discussion going on in "CPJ SEZ" that got off the original topic. Quite possibly, it should be continued. This is the place to do it.

Personally, I think it is a little bit of both. IMHO the frames of the kids up front are certainly a little more imposing. We recently have had very physical guys who were maybe a bit short (Mason) and certainly more guys at tackle with some length.

Last year's OL roster were just better blockers and better in pass protection. Chamberlain and Braun improved as maturing players tend to do. Burden was just quicker, faster, and good at getting angles than his predecessors, Mason continued to be a beast, and the combo of Griffin and Joe were more sizable and harder to get around.

I don't think CPJ has changed what he is looking for. Quite possibly what has changed is what he has been able to sign. There really isn't a lot of use for a slow footed large dough boy, who can sit back on his heels with a low rear end catching people in pass pro, in this offense. Size alone is not the answer. We need guys who can blast off the line, stay low, and get downfield or out to the perimeter. At OG, we can handle a bit of a space eater, but we still need some mobility. Devine is really the first case study for LARGE but rather slow footed. He is as good as anybody at getting movement out of the guy in front of him and pass pro, but he struggles finding targets (and getting to them) in space. Had he been good at pulling etc and had endurance, he would never have left the field. It will be real interesting for him going forward.

What say you?

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I thought there was a good discussion going on in "CPJ SEZ" that got off the original topic. Quite possibly, it should be continued. This is the place to do it.

Personally, I think it is a little bit of both. IMHO the frames of the kids up front are certainly a little more imposing. We recently have had very physical guys who were maybe a bit short (Mason) and certainly more guys at tackle with some length.

Last year's OL roster were just better blockers and better in pass protection. Chamberlain and Braun improved as maturing players tend to do. Burden was just quicker, faster, and good at getting angles than his predecessors, Mason continued to be a beast, and the combo of Griffin and Joe were more sizable and harder to get around.

I don't think CPJ has changed what he is looking for. Quite possibly what has changed is what he has been able to sign. There really isn't a lot of use for a slow footed large dough boy, who can sit back on his heels with a low rear end catching people in pass pro, in this offense. Size alone is not the answer. We need guys who can blast off the line, stay low, and get downfield or out to the perimeter. At OG, we can handle a bit of a space eater, but we still need some mobility. Devine is really the first case study for LARGE but rather slow footed. He is as good as anybody at getting movement out of the guy in front of him and pass pro, but he struggles finding targets (and getting to them) in space. Had he been good at pulling etc and had endurance, he would never have left the field. It will be real interesting for him going forward.

What say you?

Thank goodness for Gary Brown. I'm having my doubts about Shamire. Good news is we have recruited well behind him. If he doesn't do what he needs to do, the next guy is gonna pass him by.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I maintain that while big and athletic is obviously best, if you HAVE to choose, you choose athletic over big. (and GOD am I stoked about the Jordan kid coming in next year)

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I maintain that while big and athletic is obviously best, if you HAVE to choose, you choose athletic over big. (and GOD am I stoked about the Jordan kid coming in next year)

http://247sports.com/Player/Jordan-Johnson-35008

 

[stpetewreck]

Was our OL hurt two years ago when we practiced much out of the shotgun? I'm no expert; would that have affected our OL running a triple option play out of the flexbone under center?

Certainly coach said that we were not very good at the option that year. Does that come down to the guys we currently had on the OL, their reps in it vs. out of the shotgun (if that even has a adverse affect), our QB's ability to run those plays, a combination of all of the above, none of the above?

 

[Techster]

Although CPJ was talking about JeT when a writer posed the question "Would you prefer your QB be bigger", I think it also applies to most any position, but probably more importantly the OL position. CPJ's answer was (paraphrasing) "If I was able pick what I want, sure I'd take a bigger QB with the same skillset."

I think that applies to how we're recruiting with the OL. Sure CPJ wants bigger more athletic OLs that can do what the assignments call for, but if he can't get the guys he wants, he gotta sign the other tier of guys that fit what we do. Recently, we're able to get the guys that are 6'3-6'5 that can do pull off what our OL assignments need.

 

[33jacket]

I dont' know if paul is factually accepting bigger kids now than he did in the past, or it is simply as you guys say he is just landing them

what i do know is 1) we are bigger on the OL 2) they are more talented on the OL 3) Paul has tweaked his scheme through the years, and for me its actually alot. We do not cut as much on the OL as we used to.

Outside of that, we can all debate which team had the better OL or not blah blah blah. It doesn't matter. We are bigger and better than we have been.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I maintain that while big and athletic is obviously best, if you HAVE to choose, you choose athletic over big. (and GOD am I stoked about the Jordan kid coming in next year)

That is exactly CPJ's state position.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Yeah we are just landing them. I can't remember where CPJ said it at but he said his ideal line would be 5 Cord Howard's size wise. In that 6'4-6'5 295-310lb range

 

[Northeast Stinger]

We are bigger and better than we have been.

Better, yes. Bigger? That is where we have a mystery that has yet to be solved, in my mind.

Here's what you can do. Go to the Ga Tech site on ESPN and check each recruiting class from 2008 to 2015. I invite anyone to do this. There is no appreciable difference in the size of the guys we are recruiting if you compare class after class. As a matter of fact, if you are going to argue a pound here or an inch there, some of our earlier classes are actually larger than some of our later classes. Certainly, on average, the 2015 offensive line recruits are not as large as several other earlier classes. So we definitely are not getting bigger recruits on average.

So here is my question (for anyone who cares to venture a guess) have our training and conditioning classes gotten so much better to the point that players are actually able to gain substantial size and hold onto it whereas in previous years that did not happen? To say what I have said in previous posts but in a different way let's posit this. We get a guy who is 6' 2" in high school but he never puts on that extra inch or two that usually comes in college (Shaq actually seemed to lose an inch or two ) or we get a guy who is 6'5" but he never puts on more than about 270 or 280 pounds, all that does not have anything directly to do with the size guys we are recruiting but something else. What is that something else?

 

[Boomergump]

The guys we are putting on the field right now (uncluding last year) are bigger and more physical. I feel sure of that. I am too lazy to go back and look at the stats. In any case, I don't think reading the bios or looking at depth charts is going to reveal much. I am not a huge believer in their accuracy. The weights we sign 18 year olds at is not going to be the weight they play at when they are 22-23, especially along the line. Somebody has already done this in the other thread, but there is little doubt Burden is bigger than Finch and Bedford. Mason may be about what Uzzi and Howard were so that is a wash. Jackson was not a big or particularly physical guy at all playing OG. Everbody we have in the two deep now is a big jump size-wise over him. He was quick and tough. That is all you can say about him. Beno was a tough but short armed for an OT. Everybody we have now is bigger. I can't remember all the names, but we have recycled some players through the OT position under CPJ that were more like TEs than OTs.

Speaking of the strength program, I spent some time with Sisk at fan day last year. I have a lot of confidence in what he is doing. He isn't just reshaping bodies, but he is helping them bend better than the opposition and preventing football related injuries in the process. I don't know if anybody has noticed, but we are getting hurt less (the nagging type) since he arrived. I can't say factually, but I have the impression that he is doing a better job getting our guys physically ready to play our style of ball. We pretty consistently have been able to play lower than the guys we go up against when we need to. That is huge. Playing lower IS playing larger, in a way. We are bigger, we are stronger, and we are still getting under people's pads. That is a good combo.

 

[Dottie1145]

Better, yes. Bigger? That is where we have a mystery that has yet to be solved, in my mind.

Here's what you can do. Go to the Ga Tech site on ESPN and check each recruiting class from 2008 to 2015. I invite anyone to do this. There is no appreciable difference in the size of the guys we are recruiting if you compare class after class. As a matter of fact, if you are going to argue a pound here or an inch there, some of our earlier classes are actually larger than some of our later classes. Certainly, on average, the 2015 offensive line recruits are not as large as several other earlier classes. So we definitely are not getting bigger recruits on average.

So here is my question (for anyone who cares to venture a guess) have our training and conditioning classes gotten so much better to the point that players are actually able to gain substantial size and hold onto it whereas in previous years that did not happen? To say what I have said in previous posts but in a different way let's posit this. We get a guy who is 6' 2" in high school but he never puts on that extra inch or two that usually comes in college (Shaq actually seemed to lose an inch or two ) or we get a guy who is 6'5" but he never puts on more than about 270 or 280 pounds, all that does not have anything directly to do with the size guys we are recruiting but something else. What is that something else?

If Campbell works out, our average size will skyrocket.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Yeah we are just landing them.

This

 

[thwgjacket]

Thank goodness for Gary Brown. I'm having my doubts about Shamire. Good news is we have recruited well behind him. If he doesn't do what he needs to do, the next guy is gonna pass him by.

Shamire was a RS Freshman last year who played in all but one game, he missed Clemson because of injury. He is currently listed as a starter on the depth chart for this year. What else could you want out of a guy going into his RS Sophomore year? He's still very young and has showed he can play.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Shamire was a RS Freshman last year who played in all but one game, he missed Clemson because of injury. He is currently listed as a starter on the depth chart for this year. What else could you want out of a guy going into his RS Sophomore year? He's still very young and has showed he can play.

Well that's fine if you want him to be your backup. He simply doesn't have the stamina right now to be an everydown player.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Here are the heights and weights of each class AS WE RECRUITED THEM

2008
Uzzi 6-4 298
Smith 6-5 270
McRae 6-4 289
Barnes 6-5 320

2009
Jackson 6-4 280
Foster 6-4 285
Beno 6-1 278
Finch 6-4 265

2010
Bailey 6-4 285
Alford 6-3 275

2011
Joe 6-2 286
Chamberlain 6-4 280
Braun 6-4 275
Mason 6-2 305

2012
Roberts 6-3 290
Burden 6-3 290

2013
DeVine 6-6 355
Griffin 6-5 278

2014
Stickler 6-5 281
Whitley 6-3 303
Marshall 6-4 260
Brown 6-1 284

2015
Bryan 6-3 268
Morgan 6-5 266

2016
Johnson 6-2 271
Hill 6-1 297

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The weights we sign 18 year olds at is not going to be the weight they play at when they are 22-23, especially along the line.

So this proves that it has nothing to do with intentionally signing bigger players. It has to do with some intangible about who can grow into their frame better and who can hold solid muscle mass better while playing through a season.

Somebody has already done this in the other thread, but there is little doubt Burden is bigger than Finch and Bedford.

But who can account for this? Finch has a much bigger frame than Burden and should have been able to carry more weight. Meanwhile Bedford was not even recruited as an offensive lineman but outplayed the bigger guys that we had recruited for offense.

Mason may be about what Uzzi and Howard were so that is a wash

Nope. Completely different body types. Uzzi was absolutely lanky compared to Mason.

Speaking of the strength program, I spent some time with Sisk at fan day last year. I have a lot of confidence in what he is doing. He isn't just reshaping bodies, but he is helping them bend better than the opposition and preventing football related injuries in the process. I don't know if anybody has noticed, but we are getting hurt less (the nagging type) since he arrived. I can't say factually, but I have the impression that he is doing a better job getting our guys physically ready to play our style of ball.

This may be the whole key to why our perception has changed about the line. Last year was the first time in a while, it felt like, that we were not filling in for injured players or having most of the offensive line playing the whole year hurt. That, in my opinion, made a huge difference.

Well, whatever is going on we certainly all agree that the offensive line is playing better and has become a strength for the team. I cannot truthfully find a one to one correspondence to physical size, however. Some of our best players have not been as big as some of our guys that never contributed much. Athleticism still seems to rule as the determining factor for effectiveness.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

2014
Stickler 6-5 281
Whitley 6-3 303
Marshall 6-4 260
Brown 6-1 284

Oops, forgot Trey Klock 6-4 260

 

[iceeater1969]

Shamire was a RS Freshman last year who played in all but one game, he missed Clemson because of injury. He is currently listed as a starter on the depth chart for this year. What else could you want out of a guy going into his RS Sophomore year? He's still very young and has showed he can play.

Devine came in for quality minutes in 3rd and 4th quarter - coach knew the plays that made his blocking simpler and the defense was a step slower. Enjoyed seeing the extra space he made for counter as he took his man out of the hole.
Hope he keeps adding muscle like my favorite joe Irwin.

 

[thwgjacket]

Well that's fine if you want him to be your backup. He simply doesn't have the stamina right now to be an everydown player.

Lol what? He's listed as the starter, and unless you have some inside information into how conditioning and workouts are going, which you don't, then him being listed as the starter means that he's not a backup. This is P5 football, redshirt freshmen don't play very much at all, that he played in every game but one speaks volumes to his ability. Essentially we have his playing time from last year and the fact that he's listed as a starter on one side of the argument, and on the other we have you pontificating, without any current knowledge, about how he'll be a back-up and can't play every down. I wonder which way the scale tips in that argument.