Apples and Oranges

[Lotta Booze]

I understand completely where you’re coming from, and I largely agree. I said before the season 2-10 was about where we’d finish, with a ceiling of 4-8. I’m not upset about losing to Carolina or Duke or Temple. I expected that. But the Citadel was stunning to me in a way that is hard to verbalize. It was the one game this season where we had a decided advantage, and Collins lost it. It’s just devastating to any good will, and it made me question everything he has said. And when you consider that the Citadel is 3-4, it’s only made more concerning, and Collins has done nothing to attempt to assuage reasonable concerns about his performance.

Yeah. Citadel was a bad beat. Bronco Mendenhall lost to FCS Richmond his first year and I don't think many UVA fans care much at this point. VT lost to FCS James Madison before finishing top 15 on the year. College football is wacky. That's part of what makes it fun. It's just less fun when you're on the losing end of it.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Yes, Mr. I’m Expecting An Offensive Explosion Versus South Florida.

Well, we got the win. Something we couldn’t do last yr

 

[JorgeJonas]

Yeah. Citadel was a bad beat. Bronco Mendenhall lost to FCS Richmond his first year and I don't think many UVA fans care much at this point. VT lost to FCS James Madison before finishing top 15 on the year. College football is wacky. That's part of what make it fun. It's just less fun when you're on the losing end of it.

On the contrary, I think VT losing to JMU was a sign of things to come for them. And I’m not sure UVA is the standard by which we should measure ourselves. And if it is, that’s telling in itself.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Well, we got the win. Something we couldn’t do last yr

Hope everyone enjoyed it!

 

[Ibeeballin]

Hope everyone enjoyed it!

Why wouldn’t I? “Our” team won

 

[Lotta Booze]

On the contrary, I think VT losing to JMU was a sign of things to come for them. And I’m not sure UVA is the standard by which we should measure ourselves. And if it is, that’s telling in itself.

A sign of things to come meaning....winning out the rest of the year and beating FSU in the ACCCG? Because that's what happened. And I pointed out UVA to show the improvement. Not the ceiling.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Why wouldn’t I? “Our” team won

I think we should have because it’s likely the last one for the season (though maybe we pick off VT after it’s clear they’re firing their coach).

 

[JorgeJonas]

A sign of things to come meaning....winning out the rest of the year and beating FSU in the ACCCG? Because that's what happened. And I pointed out UVA to show the improvement. Not the ceiling.

I guess my point was that they were on the back end of their run, and it was the first crack in the foundation that we saw. They’re still dealing with it today. Plus, the ACC wasn’t great then.

UVA has certainly improved, but I’m not sure they’re that much better or if the rest of the conference is that much worse. I bet they could have hung Mendenhall for losing to VT last year.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Brings up a solid point. For those who see the Citadel loss as the end all, be all, would you really feel better if we flipped the results of that game and the USF game? That was a more likely outcome going in.

I'll say this about that game, too. It looked like we treated it as a practice game and it showed, but I have not witnessed a lack of effort or discipline in this team since then, which is what a lot of ya'll were predicting we would see going forward. It would appear the appropriate lessons were learned, and some coaching/tough love happened after that loss. Not being able to change the past, that's all you can ask for. Zero chance we would lose to Citadel if we played them today, IMO.

 

[LibertyTurns]

When we had warm up weights on the sideline in the opener vs Clemson I knew we were in for a long season.

That was embarrassing for our program and thankfully not many people remember.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Brings up a solid point. For those who see the Citadel loss as the end all, be all, would you really feel better if we flipped the results of that game and the USF game? That was a more likely outcome going in.

I'll say this about that game, too. It looked like we treated it as a practice game and it showed, but I have not witnessed a lack of effort or discipline in this team since then, which is what a lot of ya'll were predicting we would see going forward. It would appear the appropriate lessons were learned. Not being able to change the past, that's all you can ask for.

It’s a fair question. I think the answer (for me, at least) is yes, simply because there’s not the same indignity in losing to USF as the Citadel. In retrospect, USF is awful, and it would be a really bad loss. But I left the stadium after the Citadel just blown away. And I guess backing that up with the performance against Temple was just . . . oof. I dunno.

 

[gtg391z]

On the contrary, I think VT losing to JMU was a sign of things to come for them. And I’m not sure UVA is the standard by which we should measure ourselves. And if it is, that’s telling in itself.

What are talking about? We are fighting to get back to Dukes level after the last few years. UVA was ranked couple of weeks ago.

 

[tomknight]

I think the point here is it’s difficult to do much with a qb completely ill suited for the system you are running. Lucas and Tobias will not see the field again at qb again at GT. There is a reason for that.

I would think if just the QB was young, but had experienced players around him, his transition to the college game would be smoother. In our case, everyone's young, which has to make that transition a whole lot harder.

 

[laoh]

I’ve seen a lot of complaining about CGC and staff from the same group of people. This group will not acknowledge the hurdles in this transition and seem to focus only on the negatives. This same group also loves to point to PJ’s transition and how well it went without acknowledging the goldmine he walked into.

The purpose of this post is to point out the significant difference in what each coach walked into.

I want to take offense completely out of the equation to start and focus on 4 players that allowed Paul to have the start he did.

1. Darryl Richard (SR)
2. Vance Walker (SR) - mutli year NFL career
3. Michael Johnson (SR) - mutli year NFL career. Best pure pass rusher in the last 15 years
4. Derrick Morgan (SO) - mutli year NFL career. GT HoFer and arguably the best DL in the last 15 years.

Serious question for those doubting CGC and staff’s coaching ability. Do you think this season would look the same with this group on our team now? Need I mention we had 3 guys on the backend of that D played in the league as well? One of which is still playing 10+ years later.

In the first 6 games (same point in the season) of 2008, our defense gave up 10.667 points per game. How would our team this year have faired with those results? Is it possible, things would be a little different?

If we can, let’s talk about the offense now.

1. Dwyer
2. Thomas
3. Nesbitt
4. Howard
5. Gardner

Elite NFL WR, elite college RB, warrior qb, and two NFL olineman.

This post isn’t to take away from Paul being a good/great coach. This is to (hopefully) quell some of the ridiculous comparisons and (hopefully) open some eyes to the fact that there is a talent discrepancy whether you want to admit it or not. I’m not bashing any player either. Stating that we don’t have a D Morgan or M Johnson is just a fact. I won’t go much further on what CGC walked into other than to say we have some talent at the skill positions and on the backend. We lack the same size/ability that the 2008 team had along with the experience which is often overlooked. A lot of experience along both lines in 2008.

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO). Continuing to bring it up does nobody any good. It happened. It sucked. It’s over. This post is about the other 5 games we’ve played.

THIS.
I've been watching some of the 2008 games recently. I was blown away. It was like an awakening, "we were THAT good?!?! OMG look at all the beasts we have on offense and defense!" CPJ really did inherit a roster that was stacked and yes, that made all the difference in the world.
If you're not sure, go back and watch some of those games.

 

[forensicbuzz]

JFC. I didn’t say a word about the option. I simply quoted our coach saying he’d run an offense befitting the skills of our players. If all they can do is the option, then he should run that, or he should not have said what he said. Period.

He's run a ton of option. What's your point? He's run the portions of his offense that best fits the players' skills that he has had in at the time. If you thought he would come in and run CPJ's option, you must not have been paying much attention.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I’m not basing it on five games. I’m basing it on one game. The Citadel was inexcusable.

You need to let that go. They did to us what we did to more talented teams for years. We lost because our offense is finding itself and we have a young defense. The spread option we faced is always a killer when facing a young defense. Everyone has to do their job or else there's a big play. Guess what? Young kids tend to be less disciplined and make mistakes. That offense is designed to take advantage of that.

It sucks. It's embarrassing. It's history, let it go. Focus forward not backwards.

 

[ibeattetris]

You need to let that go. They did to us what we did to more talented teams for years. We lost because our offense is finding itself and we have a young defense. The spread option we faced is always a killer when facing a young defense. Everyone has to do their job or else there's a big play. Guess what? Young kids tend to be less disciplined and make mistakes. That offense is designed to take advantage of that.

It sucks. It's embarrassing. It's history, let it go. Focus forward not backwards.

I personally agree with you, but man, people *still* haven't let go of the MTSU game, and they weren't FCS. People give CPJ crap for Gardner Web and we *won* that game. My point is people like to yell and be angry, and I don't think we can stop it. The difference is now it's different people doing the yelling

 

[IronJacket7]

I’ve seen a lot of complaining about CGC and staff from the same group of people. This group will not acknowledge the hurdles in this transition and seem to focus only on the negatives. This same group also loves to point to PJ’s transition and how well it went without acknowledging the goldmine he walked into.

The purpose of this post is to point out the significant difference in what each coach walked into.

I want to take offense completely out of the equation to start and focus on 4 players that allowed Paul to have the start he did.

1. Darryl Richard (SR)
2. Vance Walker (SR) - mutli year NFL career
3. Michael Johnson (SR) - mutli year NFL career. Best pure pass rusher in the last 15 years
4. Derrick Morgan (SO) - mutli year NFL career. GT HoFer and arguably the best DL in the last 15 years.

Serious question for those doubting CGC and staff’s coaching ability. Do you think this season would look the same with this group on our team now? Need I mention we had 3 guys on the backend of that D played in the league as well? One of which is still playing 10+ years later.

In the first 6 games (same point in the season) of 2008, our defense gave up 10.667 points per game. How would our team this year have faired with those results? Is it possible, things would be a little different?

If we can, let’s talk about the offense now.

1. Dwyer
2. Thomas
3. Nesbitt
4. Howard
5. Gardner

Elite NFL WR, elite college RB, warrior qb, and two NFL olineman.

This post isn’t to take away from Paul being a good/great coach. This is to (hopefully) quell some of the ridiculous comparisons and (hopefully) open some eyes to the fact that there is a talent discrepancy whether you want to admit it or not. I’m not bashing any player either. Stating that we don’t have a D Morgan or M Johnson is just a fact. I won’t go much further on what CGC walked into other than to say we have some talent at the skill positions and on the backend. We lack the same size/ability that the 2008 team had along with the experience which is often overlooked. A lot of experience along both lines in 2008.

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO). Continuing to bring it up does nobody any good. It happened. It sucked. It’s over. This post is about the other 5 games we’ve played.

Well said. Thank you for speaking the truth.

 

[JorgeJonas]

He's run a ton of option. What's your point? He's run the portions of his offense that best fits the players' skills that he has had in at the time. If you thought he would come in and run CPJ's option, you must not have been paying much attention.

Perhaps I paid attention but Collins was careless with his words. And really, I could not care less about the style of offense we run. I want it to be effective, and this . . . ain’t that.

 

[JorgeJonas]

You need to let that go. They did to us what we did to more talented teams for years. We lost because our offense is finding itself and we have a young defense. The spread option we faced is always a killer when facing a young defense. Everyone has to do their job or else there's a big play. Guess what? Young kids tend to be less disciplined and make mistakes. That offense is designed to take advantage of that.

It sucks. It's embarrassing. It's history, let it go. Focus forward not backwards.

Nah. I think I’m gonna keep bringing it up because it’s an important data point. Collins is giving us information. It’s up to you if you want to ignore it.