Apples and Oranges

[JorgeJonas]

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO).

If the loss was inexcusable, what excuse it? The latter part of your comment is speculative and warrants no response.

 

[pbrown520]

That's the impression I get and I think that's a shame. I'm a staunch CPJ supporter but I recognized it was time for a change. And, if you're gonna make a change, no need to go from the option guru to some cheap knock off (all due respeck to them dudes but they ain't CPJ).

CGC was not my first choice so I had some initial consternation. I didn't like the gimmicks but I recognized it was not for me to like. I recognized the program needed an infusion of .. something. Call it energy, call it youth, call it swag .. call it whatever you want. The programs we compete against have it in spades and we had none of it. It is what it is.

So I'm willing to support them (our coaches) because they are indeed our coaches. And I've seen what constant negativity can do to a program. It's not good for anyone. I just don't understand why so many folks are just wanting to watch the world burn just because they didn't get the coach they wanted.

I'm a CPJ fan. It was time for him to go, which he did. I hate the posters who consistently slam the former staff with untruths - don't mind the criticism as much as I hate the "he hated recruiting and loved only his offense so much he didn't care about winning". I don't like Collins' radio personality (perhaps if I met him personally I would feel differently). I like almost all of the assistants under the current staff. I am actively trying to like Pnode - I am liking him more after initially strongly disliking his personality. I want this staff to succeed because I hate when GT is this bad.

 

[gtg391z]

Another fact: Graham was hurt for the Citadel game.
Another Fact: the ignore button works well. There are days when I don't see more than 3 or 4 new posts.

 

[kg01]

Competence.

Again, what is there to discuss about a comment like this?

You think our coach is incompetent? There are people, at multiple coaching progressions, who get paid to not hire incompetent coaches who disagree with you to the tune of several hundred thousand to several million dollars.

So is he incompetent or is there just something about him that you personally don't like or agree with.

 

[gtg391z]

Again, what is there to discuss about a comment like this?

You think our coach is incompetent? There are people, at multiple coaching progressions, who get paid to not hire incompetent coaches who disagree with you to the tune of several hundred thousand to several million dollars.

So is he incompetent or is there just something about him that you personally don't like or agree with.

Man, we have some of the best D1 coaches on this message board. They would have only lost one game this year if they were coaching and the offense would be rolling by now.

 

[smokey_wasp]

If the loss was inexcusable, what excuse it? The latter part of your comment is speculative and warrants no response.

No one has excused that loss. It looked like we treated it as a practice and Citadel came to win it, and it bit us big time. What we are saying is it isn't the end all-be all, defining moment for this coaching staff's whole future tenure, and it needs not be brought up in every single thread when we are trying to talk about other stuff.

Fact is, that game was met with a collective shrug from the college football world at large and we are the only ones still talking about it.

 

[kg01]

Man, we have some of the best D1 coaches on this message board. They would have only lost one game this year if they were coaching and the offense would be rolling by now.

Exactly.

I'd have no issue if folks would just be honest about what's going on. If folks don't like the dude, fine. I didn't like the dude at first but I was willing to give him/them a chance.

Some folks were after his job after 1 game. That does not equate to any level of genuine thought process behind accepting/rejecting the dude. They just plain don't like him and can't articulate why.

 

[GTRX7]

I'm a CPJ fan. It was time for him to go, which he did. I hate the posters who consistently slam the former staff with untruths - don't mind the criticism as much as I hate the "he hated recruiting and loved only his offense so much he didn't care about winning". I don't like Collins' radio personality (perhaps if I met him personally I would feel differently). I like almost all of the assistants under the current staff. I am actively trying to like Pnode - I am liking him more after initially strongly disliking his personality. I want this staff to succeed because I hate when GT is this bad.

This is largely my take. I was a big CPJ fan, also understood it was probably time to move on from the option, and am very hopeful and supportive of CGC.

That said, I do think there are many legitimate reasons to criticize the early performance of the current staff:
(1) I think our failure to pick a QB and a system and go with it from the start was a really poor decision. If we didn't have one QB that was clearly head and shoulders above the others, we should have picked the QB that gave us the best potential to grow and develop in the system we ultimately want to play and start that QB from the beginning. That is why I am 100% behind going all-in with Graham now and letting him learn. But delaying that decision set us back 1/3 of the season (where we had the easiest games too).
(2) Our defense and special teams seem not to be showing much if any improvement either. I feel like it is the same performance on D that we would have gotten with Woody this year.
(3) Our short yardage play calls on offense are frankly embarrassing for a team that, if nothing else, should be able to do that pretty well.
(4) I get tired of anyone bringing up Gardner Webb as if it is a legitimate comparison to the Citadel game. Winning with the third-string QB we had to start on last-minute notice due to injuries is different than losing with 2 QBs the staff apparently thought were 1a and 1c on the depth chart. Totally different situation. If we found out that only Yates was available the week before Citadel, I would agree that would be more similar. I was at the Citadel game and there is no excuse for that loss except coaching.
(5) While the TOP-end talent when CPJ started was better, we have much better depth across the board now (at least that is what the recruiting rankings say). I thus believe without any doubt that CPJ and his staff did a better job handing the transition than this staff. That said, I think CPJ and his staff did a historically impressive job of teaching those players to play in their new offensive system in year 1, so that isn't necessarily a huge knock on this staff.

All that said, I am not counting this staff out. CGC is still a relatively young and inexperienced head coach and needs time to learn and grow too. If we can really step up our recruiting like they hope we can, I think we can get right back to where we want (bowl 4/5 years, ACC title appearance 1/4 years, BCS level bowl 1/6 years, beat UGA 2/5 years). Anything more than that is gravy for me.

 

[JorgeJonas]

Again, what is there to discuss about a comment like this?

You asked the question; I gave you my answer. Sorry you don’t like it.

You think our coach is incompetent? There are people, at multiple coaching progressions, who get paid to not hire incompetent coaches who disagree with you to the tune of several hundred thousand to several million dollars.

Yes, I do. The balance of your comment is an appeal to authority.

So is he incompetent or is there just something about him that you personally don't like or agree with.

I have no personal animus toward him. I just think he’s bad at his job, and the evidence supports me.

 

[GT_EE78]

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO). Continuing to bring it up does nobody any good. It happened. It sucked. It’s over. This post is about the other 5 games we’ve played.

It was a part of our season. You'll just have to get over it,as we all must.. As you already know from metrics on various threads. Our current talent level is about bottom 20% of both P5 and ACC. but thats still within P5 boundaries and isn't high enough to ease the transition or low enough to justify where we're at. IIWII

 

[JorgeJonas]

No one has excused that loss.

We’re being asked not to talk about it. It’s hard to imagine a bigger excuse than to deny its existence.

What we are saying is it isn't the end all-be all, defining moment for this coaching staff's whole future tenure, and it needs not be brought up in every single thread when we are trying to talk about other stuff.

If it’s not the defining moment, then that means good things are happening. I’ll be happy to say I was wrong (in fact, I desperately want to be wrong). However, for now, it is the defining moment and it’s emblematic, in my opinion, of a staff that’s long on platitudes and short on substance.

Fact is, that game was met with a collective shrug from the college football world at large and we are the only ones still talking about it.

This may be a surprise, but most of the college football world is not comprised of Jackets superfans. Plus, losses to 1-AA schools do a funny, yet predictable, thing, in that people care less because we suck.

 

[Animal02]

No one has excused that loss. It looked like we treated it as a practice and Citadel came to win it, and it bit us big time. What we are saying is it isn't the end all-be all, defining moment for this coaching staff's whole future tenure, and it needs not be brought up in every single thread when we are trying to talk about other stuff.

Fact is, that game was met with a collective shrug from the college football world at large and we are the only ones still talking about it.

Yeah, go ahead and believe that.
Recruiters for our competition are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[lv20gt]

(4) I get tired of anyone bringing up Gardner Webb as if it is a legitimate comparison to the Citadel game. Winning with the third-string QB we had to start on last-minute notice due to injuries is different than losing with 2 QBs the staff apparently thought were 1a and 1c on the depth chart. Totally different situation. If we found out that only Yates was available the week before Citadel, I would agree that would be more similar. I was at the Citadel game and there is no excuse for that loss except coaching.

You're ignoring the QB situation as a whole. Booker was a terrible fit for the offense he was asked to run. So were Johnson and Oliver, who would have been at best 3rd stringers, with Oliver being a different position entirely. That's why the comparison is made. The fact that 2008 was lucky enough to have Nesbitt for most of the year doesn't change that. Our situation this year is as if we had Booker, Bennett, and Shaw battling it out in 2008. In that case, the Citadel game would be like if Shaw got hurt and we played Booker and Bennett. It still ends in the same place.

 

[GTRX7]

You're ignoring the QB situation as a whole. Booker was a terrible fit for the offense he was asked to run. So were Johnson and Oliver, who would have been at best 3rd stringers, with Oliver being a different position entirely. That's why the comparison is made. The fact that 2008 was lucky enough to have Nesbitt for most of the year doesn't change that. Our situation this year is as if we had Booker, Bennett, and Shaw battling it out in 2008. In that case, the Citadel game would be like if Shaw got hurt and we played Booker and Bennett. It still ends in the same place.

Totally disagree. Both Oliver and Johnson are much much better QBs for this system than Booker was for that system. More importantly, Oliver and Johnson had been sharing first string snaps and the coaches have specifically been putting packages in place for each since the spring. For CPJ, we had been playing Nesbitt all meaningful snaps. Then he got hurt, so we played Shaw all meaningful snaps. Then he got hurt and we had to go to Booker for the first meaningful snaps of his Tech career with no time for preparation. Totally different situation. (Also, Oliver had already shown the ability to be a winning, difference making QB at this level if a proper package is run for his skill set.)

 

[georgytech]

I’ve seen a lot of complaining about CGC and staff from the same group of people. This group will not acknowledge the hurdles in this transition and seem to focus only on the negatives. This same group also loves to point to PJ’s transition and how well it went without acknowledging the goldmine he walked into.

The purpose of this post is to point out the significant difference in what each coach walked into.

I want to take offense completely out of the equation to start and focus on 4 players that allowed Paul to have the start he did.

1. Darryl Richard (SR)
2. Vance Walker (SR) - mutli year NFL career
3. Michael Johnson (SR) - mutli year NFL career. Best pure pass rusher in the last 15 years
4. Derrick Morgan (SO) - mutli year NFL career. GT HoFer and arguably the best DL in the last 15 years.

Serious question for those doubting CGC and staff’s coaching ability. Do you think this season would look the same with this group on our team now? Need I mention we had 3 guys on the backend of that D played in the league as well? One of which is still playing 10+ years later.

In the first 6 games (same point in the season) of 2008, our defense gave up 10.667 points per game. How would our team this year have faired with those results? Is it possible, things would be a little different?

If we can, let’s talk about the offense now.

1. Dwyer
2. Thomas
3. Nesbitt
4. Howard
5. Gardner

Elite NFL WR, elite college RB, warrior qb, and two NFL olineman.

This post isn’t to take away from Paul being a good/great coach. This is to (hopefully) quell some of the ridiculous comparisons and (hopefully) open some eyes to the fact that there is a talent discrepancy whether you want to admit it or not. I’m not bashing any player either. Stating that we don’t have a D Morgan or M Johnson is just a fact. I won’t go much further on what CGC walked into other than to say we have some talent at the skill positions and on the backend. We lack the same size/ability that the 2008 team had along with the experience which is often overlooked. A lot of experience along both lines in 2008.

And please, don’t bring up Citadel. We all agree, that loss is inexcusable. Just like losing to Gardner Webb would’ve been in 2008 (which would happened with the 2019 defense IMO). Continuing to bring it up does nobody any good. It happened. It sucked. It’s over. This post is about the other 5 games we’ve played.

I think you lost your credibility with the "please don't bring up Citadel." Even less talented teams can look disciplined while we have not looked that way much of the time both on the field & bench.
We can agree that our only alternative is to cheer for our team instead of favorably or unfavorably comparing coaching regimes.
I hope our current coach is very successful & wins many league championships in the future . I still fly my Tech flag in the front yard on gamedays & wear Tech clothing.
Remember as Al used to say," If you can't play a sport, be one!"

 

[Jacket4Life9]

Totally disagree. Both Oliver and Johnson are much much better QBs for this system than Booker was for that system. More importantly, Oliver and Johnson had been sharing first string snaps and the coaches have specifically been putting packages in place for each since the spring. For CPJ, we had been playing Nesbitt all meaningful snaps. Then he got hurt, so we played Shaw all meaningful snaps. Then he got hurt and we had to go to Booker for the first meaningful snaps of his Tech career with no time for preparation. Totally different situation. (Also, Oliver had already shown the ability to be a winning, difference making QB at this level if a proper package is run for his skill set.)

Tobias completed 7 passes last season. Against VT, he ran it 40 times. He is an extremely talented runner and deserves to be getting more touches (and should've gotten a lot more snaps against Citadel), but he has not proven himself as a passer at this point.

Surround any of our 3 QBs with the rest of the '08 roster and we are looking at a much different season.

 

[gt02]

Real question: What do the anti-CGC folks want?

I'm all on board with the fact that this is a rebuild. I'm not measuring CGC by wins and losses (mostly). The only thing I really want to see from CGC is week-to-week improvement. If I see that, I am content. But there is enough out there about how he runs this program that drives me crazy, and the more he loses, the harder it is to tolerate, such as:

1. Elimination of bone-headed coaching decisions
2. His propensity to stretch the truth
3. Inability to provide any substantive discussion of our team other than speaking in platitudes
4. The gimmicks (although in fairness, he has toned down the "Money down" stuff)

 

[GTJake]

Major assumption in your post is that this staff is getting the most out of the players and putting the best practice on the field. I just don’t see that. We can debate about the D but the O has left much to be desired.

So, you don't think our OL issues this season are due to a transition from the TO ??

 

[Ibeeballin]

There's nothing CGC can do. He's not CPJ or Monken so will never win those types of fans over. Those fans will literally never be happy with him because the TO and its branch of coaches aren't coming here nor are any former Ga Southern option coaches coming here.

Those fans that are TO or nothing love it bc it allows them to continue to feel elite. The sense of we are doing something that no one is doing and we can doing it marginal recruit. Somehow the only way to win is we run something totally unorthodox and unconventional. The constant “We will never outrecruit Bama or Clemson” considering neither resides in the Coastal where am annual Top 25 classes will make us perennial Coastal contenders.

It just appears those who are on that side believe our ceiling is very low to begin with and we can win in the same scheme the other 100 schools are running.

You asked the question; I gave you my answer. Sorry you don’t like it.



Yes, I do. The balance of your comment is an appeal to authority.



I have no personal animus toward him. I just think he’s bad at his job, and the evidence supports me.

what evidence?

 

[Silk3]

3 experienced QBs? You’ve got to be kidding. By the way, Calvin Booker was a senior who played in 5 games the year before. Booker played admirably in the GW game but the problem wasn’t experience as much as it was his skill set didn’t fit the system. I never judged CPJ based off that performance, as I knew and expected he’d get more Nesbitt type players to run his offense. Our roster is full of triple option QBs/athletes. They had no P5 QB offers for a reason. They have all played hard and I’m proud of their progression—especially Graham’s—but don’t act like we have 3 veteran QBs ready to roll. Especially when the OL is in shambles.

Lmao with his 3 experienced qb comment. You have to remember though this is the same guy who said it was absolutely stupid call to go for 2 to try to cut it to 2 possession game....you gotta kick the xp and cut it to 17!!