Any news?? (stage 3: press coverage)

bobongo

bobongo

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CPJacket said:
May be more about HOW Collins allows the coaches to coach. I guarantee that none of these coaches treated students with kid gloves at their prior spots.
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Yes, Collins seems to be the problem overlying all the assistant coaches. I had hoped the assistants would make a difference, but if the HC doesn't have the right mindset it won't work.
 

billga99

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sgreer said:
As soon as Key took off that Alabama polo he all of a sudden was not a good recruiter or coach. He is the blame almost as much as Collins for the state of this program.
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Key at Alabama is an entirely different game. Think about how much easier it is to recruit when you have a consistent playoff team and a record of putting tons of players in the NFL. Then when you have superior talent, it is a lot easier to be successful. My point is any assistant for Alabama has a huge build in advantage and it is tough to judge how effective they would be outside of that bubble. But obviously a strong head coach would make a determination on the quality of his hires before year 4. Collins struggles in many ways but this is one of the most damaging.
 

RamblinRed

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If we are hiring a coach primarily on 'recruiting prowess' that is a huge mistake. That is what got us into this mess in the first place.

GT football will never succeed by being a top recruiting school. In 40+ years I can count the number of Top 25 classes we have had on one hand. We are mostly an avg to below avg P5 recruiting school and are likely to always be that (Think about where most of our classes tend to rank and that there are 65 P5 programs, soon to be 69).

To succeed at GT you need a HC and staff that is above avg in both player development and game day prep/coaching.

There are 3 legs to the stool - recruiting, development, coaching.
GT is unlikely to ever excel at #1, so it needs to excel at #2 and 3.
Bobby Ross, George O'Leary, Chan Gailey, Paul Johnson were all well above average college coaches.

We need someone that can build a program that doesn't rely on top level recruiting to be successful - sort of our own version of Dave Clawson.
If I was in charge of the search I would not be looking for a big name, not be looking for a coach from a blue blood school - that is a completely different coaching situation and whether a coach from a blue blood school can come in and win at GT is a big question mark. I'm looking for someone that has a vision for how to build and sustain a program without having constant Top 25 recruiting classes. IMO that was my #1 worry with Collins coming in, his vision seemed to be that he would recruit like a blue-blood, which was a very unlikely proposition. I was hoping he could pull it off, but he never came close.
 
bobongo

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RamblinRed said:
If we are hiring a coach primarily on 'recruiting prowess' that is a huge mistake. That is what got us into this mess in the first place.

GT football will never succeed by being a top recruiting school. In 40+ years I can count the number of Top 25 classes we have had on one hand. We are mostly an avg to below avg P5 recruiting school and are likely to always be that (Think about where most of our classes tend to rank and that there are 65 P5 programs, soon to be 69).

To succeed at GT you need a HC and staff that is above avg in both player development and game day prep/coaching.

There are 3 legs to the stool - recruiting, development, coaching.
GT is unlikely to ever excel at #1, so it needs to excel at #2 and 3.
Bobby Ross, George O'Leary, Chan Gailey, Paul Johnson were all well above average college coaches.

We need someone that can build a program that doesn't rely on top level recruiting to be successful - sort of our own version of Dave Clawson.
If I was in charge of the search I would not be looking for a big name, not be looking for a coach from a blue blood school - that is a completely different coaching situation and whether a coach from a blue blood school can come in and win at GT is a big question mark. I'm looking for someone that has a vision for how to build and sustain a program without having constant Top 25 recruiting classes. IMO that was my #1 worry with Collins coming in, his vision seemed to be that he would recruit like a blue-blood, which was a very unlikely proposition. I was hoping he could pull it off, but he never came close.
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Well, it isn't either/or. We need a coach who can recruit and develop players. Or hire assistants who can. We're not going to do this with one or the other - we have to have both. And to find one who can do both we're going to have to roll the dice. Anyone who has proven they can do both would be prohibitively expensive. There is a coach out there who is sure-fire on the recruiting end and who may well be a good developer, though unproven. What is proven is that he's a disciplinarian and a motivator, two essential qualities totally lacking in the present coach. I'm talking about Deion Sanders.
 
IronJacket7

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RamblinRed said:
If we are hiring a coach primarily on 'recruiting prowess' that is a huge mistake. That is what got us into this mess in the first place.

GT football will never succeed by being a top recruiting school. In 40+ years I can count the number of Top 25 classes we have had on one hand. We are mostly an avg to below avg P5 recruiting school and are likely to always be that (Think about where most of our classes tend to rank and that there are 65 P5 programs, soon to be 69).

To succeed at GT you need a HC and staff that is above avg in both player development and game day prep/coaching.

There are 3 legs to the stool - recruiting, development, coaching.
GT is unlikely to ever excel at #1, so it needs to excel at #2 and 3.
Bobby Ross, George O'Leary, Chan Gailey, Paul Johnson were all well above average college coaches.

We need someone that can build a program that doesn't rely on top level recruiting to be successful - sort of our own version of Dave Clawson.
If I was in charge of the search I would not be looking for a big name, not be looking for a coach from a blue blood school - that is a completely different coaching situation and whether a coach from a blue blood school can come in and win at GT is a big question mark. I'm looking for someone that has a vision for how to build and sustain a program without having constant Top 25 recruiting classes. IMO that was my #1 worry with Collins coming in, his vision seemed to be that he would recruit like a blue-blood, which was a very unlikely proposition. I was hoping he could pull it off, but he never came close.
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I agree completely. Although I hope that #1 would not be neglected or prioritized of any less significance by whomever we hire as HC.

IMO O'Leary was one of the most well rounded in all 3 phases we have ever had.

As an aside, if Deion were hired as our next HC I know it would be a massive splash initially. However, would it end in a massive thud...
 
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bobongo

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IronJacket7 said:
I agree completely. Although I hope that #1 would not be neglected or prioritized of any less significance by whomever we hire as HC.
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No one should be kidding themselves - #1 is of paramount importance. We shouldn't make the mistake of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Colllins' only good attribute as an HC is his recruiting ability. It's all the other stuff he's lacking.
 

RamblinRed

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IronJacket7 said:
I agree completely. Although I hope that #1 would not be neglected or prioritized of any less significance by whomever we hire as HC.

IMO O'Leary was one of the most well rounded in all 3 phases we have ever had.

As an aside, if Deion were hired as our next HC I know it would be a massive splash initially. However, would it end in a massive thud...
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It doesn't mean that recruiting isn't important - but what it does mean to me is that I wouldn't put it above the other 2 legs on the stool. Collins pitch seemed to be largely centered on recruiting above all else - I also had concerns about that when he was hired but was more than willing to play that out.

I just think fans who see GT recruiting like a blue blood are mistaken in that belief.
GT can be a middle of the pack P5 recruiting school - but it is unlikely to ever recruit at a level where it can simply 'out talent' its opponents, other than an FCS or possibly a G5 opponent.
I don't see GT recruiting at a level that it will just be able to out talent most of its ACC opponents.
 
Techster

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RamblinRed said:
It doesn't mean that recruiting isn't important - but what it does mean to me is that I wouldn't put it above the other 2 legs on the stool. Collins pitch seemed to be largely centered on recruiting above all else - I also had concerns about that when he was hired but was more than willing to play that out.

I just think fans who see GT recruiting like a blue blood are mistaken in that belief.
GT can be a middle of the pack P5 recruiting school - but it is unlikely to ever recruit at a level where it can simply 'out talent' its opponents, other than an FCS or possibly a G5 opponent.
I don't see GT recruiting at a level that it will just be able to out talent most of its ACC opponents.
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GT doesn't need to recruit like a blue blood...we never really have on a consistent basis, yet we had a 20+ year bowl streak, won a National Championship, made an ACC championship game or won the conference every decade since 1990, went to multiple New Years bowl games...GT has accomplished MANY things in our last 30 years that a lot of so called "factory" schools have not.

Flash is fun temporarily, but if that flash doesn't start a fire, everyone gets left out in the cold.
 
bobongo

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Oldgoldandwhite said:
??????
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He's a good recruiter per se. It's only his bad record on the field that ultimately sent the recruiting south. He had a fine record recruiting when he was here previously, too. That's the only position for which I would hire him - recruiting coordinator.
 
ibeattetris

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RamblinRed said:
Collins pitch seemed to be largely centered on recruiting above all else - I also had concerns about that when he was hired but was more than willing to play that out.
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This comment came in a reddit thread a few days ago, and I thought it was interesting. (Emphasis mine)
Know a guy who was on staff with Collins at Tech (very high up, off field role, but did talent eval) and I said "dude idk how Collins didn't automatically get 5yrs. They had to re-recruit their entire roster because of the offensive changes."

And while he agreed, he pointed out a lot of things that were an issue. For instance, we were discussing a top-100 c/o 2024 guy who is an OL and an absolute beast (top 75 overall). I asked why he wasn't higher and he said it's a technique thing. Fair, then he pointed out "yeah I was told we couldn't offer him because he's too raw and we need guys who are ready now... I then told coach Collins 'every SEC team is beating down this kids door, he's from FL, why wouldn't we at least offer him...?"

Collins apparently said "I need guys who are college ready and can contribute immediately" ... I look him dead in the eyes and go "Coach, your boy coach collins may be a little misguided as to the prestige and allure of Tech. In your years there you probably had what? 10 guys who came in ready to make meaningful contributions as a true frosh?" and he goes "Well, we played about 25 guys who were nowhere near ready, and about 8-10 were actually ready"

Guess my point is yes, it is probably time to move on, but Collins was given a team he had to completely rebuild/restructure so I am not surprised in the slightest he has not done well.
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What I found most interesting (assuming any of it is real) is only looking for immediate contributors. Considering the 7 year contract, he had enough rope to be bad for 3 seasons (as is evident) but to be showing progress along the way. Had we taken high caliber people who needed some work, maybe they'd be showing more promise now.

I take this whole thing with a grain of salt, since I find it hard to believe Collins would be that short sighted. It was still interesting.
 

NewEnglandTransplant

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GTLorenzo said:
Not sure if this has actually been posted or not, but here is Collins' contract. It does appear that the contract year is through 12/31, but if he were to leave and had a buyout, it is based on a 12/1 date. Really weird.

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Interesting read of the contract, thanks for the link.
I now see where the $7.2mm three year buyout is effective 1/1/2023 with $2.4mm each of the final three years.
Given we have paid him presumably 3/4th of his current 2022 year salary through Sept, we'd only have 1/4 of this year's salary left to pay him if he were let go now., or he remained coach through year end. So it is already "spent". If nothing else for the faithful GT fans who have suffered through his stewardship (and I suspect some players and recruits too), fire him now, put him behind us and move on with an interim HC and look forward to a brighter future.
 
MidtownJacket

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bobongo

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Dottie1145 said:
www.espn.com

How Jamey Chadwell's nightmare season as interim coach changed everything for Coastal Carolina

Chadwell's time as interim coach of the Chanticleers five years ago "was the worst year of my life," but it helped create one the best programs in the Group of 5.
www.espn.com www.espn.com




I’m sorry if this isn’t where it’s supposed to be, but as a football guy, this fires me tf up.
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Sounds like someone who has on-the-job training in turning things around, someone who's willing and able to learn. Sounds like a leader, which is a coach's most important role.
 
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