Anthem Protests

[Milwaukee]

So, not bright then.

Do you need a xanax? Why are you triggered?

 

[jeffgt14]

Directing a HS student athlete to stand & be quiet during the national anthem is essentially the same as directing them to wear their uniform a certain way or be dressed & ready to go in the locker room at a certain time.

You're establishing a reasonable expectation that is uniformly applied to all students.

I suppose. I'm just curious as to what the actual laws are for this. I know you usually will have to make accommodations for someone’s particular beliefs so not sure how this gets carried over across extracurricular activities.

 

[AE 87]

Do you need a xanax? Why are you triggered?

LOL Lighten up snow flake

 

[Milwaukee]

Just making sure you're ok bud.

 

[FredJacket]

I suppose. I'm just curious as to what the actual laws are for this. I know you usually will have to make accommodations for someone’s particular beliefs so not sure how this gets carried over across extracurricular activities.

This is where the hair splitting gets silly to me. Having someone stand still for 2 minutes during the anthem doesn't rise to a level (IMO) of infringing on any beliefs. Same does apply (IMO) to moments of silence.

...but I'm no lawyer.

 

[alentrekin]

So Trump ordered high schools to kick off players who don't stand respectfully for the National Anthem? I haven't seen this order. Can you please cite with a credible news source? Video would even be better.


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I think the tweeter means 'order' in a colloquial not legal sense -- as in "player's should stand" said at the rally not an Executive Order.

I'm as curious as you, but I just got back from a Sheriff's office and am writing a motion for a hearing tomorrow...I assume someone in the swarm will dig into it.

 

[GT_05]

I think the tweeter means 'order' in a colloquial not legal sense -- as in "player's should stand" said at the rally not an Executive Order.

I'm as curious as you, but I just got back from a Sheriff's office and am writing a motion for a hearing tomorrow...I assume someone in the swarm will dig into it.

Yes, I know there isn't an order because I watch the news frequently. However, a lot of folks don't watch the news and I think that @shaunking's choice of words in a very volatile time is unfortunate, at best, and intentionally inflammatory, at worst. No progress will ever be made as long as people are fanning the flames.


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[Whiskey_Clear]

I haven’t really kept up. Is there not a moment of silence in schools anymore?

Some schools probably do and some probably don't. Are you aware of any instances where students in these instances are forced, coerced, or pressured to pray?

 

[Squints]

@Squints

No the protest had not died down prior to Trump opening his pie hole on the issue. It had spread. Quite a bit. Which is what prompted Trump to open his pie hole. And your last paragraph is riddled with your personal opinions. Which you are free to express, however you stated you were not so I'm just pointing out that you did in fact.

Hey I said I was going to try. I made no guarantees. I'm only human.

For the record when I use the phrase "I would say" in a sentence that's me waving a big ol' flag in your face to show you that what comes next is my opinion and that I'm aware of that. I'm not trying to sneak one by you there. As for the other opinion, I assume you're referring to the protests dying down comment, I think we're just going to have to disagree on that because I just don't see it. Yea the protests were happening but ADD had set in for most of America and they were an afterthought once the season actually started. Outside of Kaepernick having issues getting signed I don't recall a lot of talk about them at all. Now I'll grant you that I live in a completely different media world than you do so maybe there was a lot of coverage where you get your news/opinions and that's why we have different takes. C'est la vie.

Here's an opinion free redo: Donald Trump ran his mouth. Players and owners are not happy Donald Trump ran his mouth. Players and owners protest. There you go.

 

[jeffgt14]

Some schools probably do and some probably don't. Are you aware of any instances where students in these instances are forced, coerced, or pressured to pray?

Seems a bit silly but it wouldn't necessarily surprise me. Don't think removing a moment of silence for every school out there would be the solution though.

 

[Squints]

It's an extracurricular activity so I'm sure they could require many things that they couldn't require in the classroom.


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I think the relevant case would be Tinker v. Des Moines and it states that a student's rights of expression in school extend beyond just the classroom. IIRC it specifically states the "playing field" too. So if that's a public school I have a hard time seeing how that policy would fly if challenged in court.

 

[GT_05]

I think the relevant case would be Tinker v. Des Moines and it states that a student's rights of expression in school extend beyond just the classroom. IIRC it specifically states the "playing field" too. So if that's a public school I have a hard time seeing how that policy would fly if challenged in court.

Maybe. I just read an abstract on that case and the difference to me is that an athlete doesn't have to play a sport but a student must attend school. The abstract I read didn't draw a distinction between a student and a student athlete. Maybe there was a distinction in the actual ruling.

I suppose that if they felt it became too much of a distraction, the school could just shut down football for the season. I only bring this up because the memo sounds very stern and absolute. Probably wouldn't do it and I'm not advocating it but I don't see how they could be compelled to provide athletics.

We may be discussing a nothing burger. It wouldn't surprise me if we find out that this letter is a fabrication. Strange that it doesn't show a letterhead with an address and phone number.


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[jeffgt14]

Yea it's very logical it could be #fakenews (yes it is correct grammar to always hashtag this).

 

[alentrekin]

Looks real.

 

[Squints]

Maybe. I just read an abstract on that case and the difference to me is that an athlete doesn't have to play a sport but a student must attend school. The abstract I read didn't draw a distinction between a student and a student athlete. Maybe there was a distinction in the actual ruling.

I suppose that if they felt it became too much of a distraction, the school could just shut down football for the season. I only bring this up because the memo sounds very stern and absolute. Probably wouldn't do it and I'm not advocating it but I don't see how they could be compelled to provide athletics.

We may be discussing a nothing burger. It wouldn't surprise me if we find out that this letter is a fabrication. Strange that it doesn't show a letterhead with an address and phone number.


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Here's the excerpt from Justia that references playing fields:

A student's rights, therefore, do not embrace merely the classroom hours. When he is in the cafeteria, or on the playing field, or on the campus during the authorized hours, he may express his opinions, even on controversial subjects like the conflict in Vietnam, if he does so without "materially and substantially interfer[ing] with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school" and without colliding with the rights of others. Burnside v. Byars, supra, at 749.

Seems pretty clear to me. I don't think the school could do much in an official capacity. But IANAL and have been wrong before.

 

[GT_05]

Here's the excerpt from Justia that references playing fields:



Seems pretty clear to me. I don't think the school could do much in an official capacity. But IANAL and have been wrong before.

Yes, this seems pretty clear. Surely the school system has attorneys on staff or on retainer and didn't make a decision like this without consulting them. I guess we will find out what they were thinking at a later date.


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[Deleted member 2897]

What some of these high schools are attempting to do is to stop stuff like the Georgia Tech flag girl who turned away from the flag and knelt from happening to them, before it turns into a full on circus and you have tons of people behaving like that. People are sick and tired of having politics injected into everything, and sports are just about the last refuge for many people. Just because Trump is a moron doesn't mean we have to react to every oral diarrhea expulsion he has. Lets just ignore him. Play ball.

 

[Captain killem]

High school athletics are funded through tax dollars and booster clubs. If I were them I would tread very carefully on this matter.

 

[MWBATL]

Just because Trump is a moron doesn't mean we have to react to every oral diarrhea expulsion he has. Lets just ignore him. Play ball.

QFT +1000

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Here's the excerpt from Justia that references playing fields:



Seems pretty clear to me. I don't think the school could do much in an official capacity. But IANAL and have been wrong before.

Just my opinion. Some of this free speech stuff is a bit inconsistent, case law wise. Most student speech is protected so long as it doesn't "disrupt the learning environment."

So waving a confederate flag would most likely cause a disturbance. Kneeling for the anthem likely wouldn't. But student prayers have been banned for infringing on others rights.

My guess is the school would lose in this case l at a graduation etc....except...playing sports is considered a privilege I believe. Coaches can play or cut any player for pretty much any reason as far as I know.