Anthem Protests

[Whiskey_Clear]

https://www.local10.com/news/crime/...teran-officer-who-killed-27-year-old-fugitive

http://onlineathens.com/local-news/...death-traffic-stop-greene-county-deputy-leave

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/...-know-police-shooting-aaron-bailey/442049001/

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/cri...ed-15-year-old-jordan-edwards-indicted-murder

Tied up, I'll try and post info on the other 6 when free.

 

[TechTravis]

I saw exactly one indictment. A lot of "paid leave" and "probes." Forgive me if I'm not recanting every word I've ever uttered regarding this matter...

 

[AE 87]

To me, honestly, the difference is lack of consequence. I don't hate cops. At all. One of my best friends is LEO. But we as citizens place a certain amount of trust above what we would give the average citizen because of the training and vetting these men have gone through. If they can't restrain from shooting suspects that pose no threat, ie Philando Castle, they should at the very least be subject to the same penalties as if any of us had just walked up to that kid and shot him in front of his wife and kid. If they can't show a level of discernment that reflects their training, they should suffer the same fate that we would. And I believe the grievance most (including myself) have with the officer involved shootings of PoC isn't about the total number. I wholeheartedly concede that more white people get shot by cops every year than blacks. It's both the historically disproportionate number of people shot AND the lack of any accountability from law enforcement when such shootings occur.

Have you watched the video of the very sad shooting of Philandro Castile?

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I saw exactly one indictment. A lot of "paid leave" and "probes." Forgive me if I'm not recanting every word I've ever uttered regarding this matter...

Ok I'll just assume you are talking out of your backside from here on.

 

[Milwaukee]

To me, honestly, the difference is lack of consequence. I don't hate cops. At all. One of my best friends is LEO. But we as citizens place a certain amount of trust above what we would give the average citizen because of the training and vetting these men have gone through. If they can't restrain from shooting suspects that pose no threat, ie Philando Castle, they should at the very least be subject to the same penalties as if any of us had just walked up to that kid and shot him in front of his wife and kid. If they can't show a level of discernment that reflects their training, they should suffer the same fate that we would. And I believe the grievance most (including myself) have with the officer involved shootings of PoC isn't about the total number. I wholeheartedly concede that more white people get shot by cops every year than blacks. It's both the historically disproportionate number of people shot AND the lack of any accountability from law enforcement when such shootings occur.

Thanks for responding without getting ugly.

 

[QuickKick]

The whole thing is just stupid in my opinion. If you're going to claim your first amendment right to free speech and protest, then why are you protesting the symbol of that right? It makes no sense.

Exactly. The whole thing is stupid. A simple reprimand from the owners and the league would have set the record straight but they're all gutless and spineless.

 

[TechTravis]

Thanks for responding without getting ugly.

i dont think we should have to get ugly. thats the thing. i really, REALLY want for everyone who hears that anthem play to believe that it represents their best interests. I really do. I have several family members who have served, and, since we're having this conversation, my greatx7 uncle was the master mason of the Old North Church. My family has been here forever. I love this country. I just want everyone to love it as much as I do...

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I think you in turn are twisting my stance. I will literally fight to protect any citizen's right to protest any issue peacefully. Even stances I vehemently oppose. I don't think said protesters have the right to do so while representing separate organizations or institutions while doing so, unless granted permission by said organizations / institutions. If Tech wants to get on board this particular train I'm jumping off. Simple as that.

So, you want a safe space?

 

[Wrecking Ball]

In my guy Lib's defense, I don't think he's a nazi sympathizer or anything. I just think a lot of people have a warped view of what it means to be a 'Merican. Anything other than weepy eyed reverence for anything deemed 'Merican is seen as anti-American by them. These sentiments have been stirred up by ... well factors I don't even want to discuss right now.

In reality, bucking the status quo is what being American is about.

Well, the Mussolini brand of fascism is alive and well. The reductio ad-Nazium was a bit much I admit.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

So, you want a safe space?

I'm not interested in viewing displays of ignorance or hate to my country. Does my stance offend your delicate sensibilities?

 

[Wrecking Ball]

They did not fight to guarantee people access to any platform they would like to use the express opinion. If I have an opinion, I am Constitutionally guaranteed to be able to:

• Say it to anyone who will listen.
• Write it down and distribute it however I can.

However:

• I am not guaranteed that I can post it on GTSwarm. The mods could cancel my membership at any time for any reason.
• If I type it and send it to a newspaper, the newspaper is not required to publish it.
• If I appear at a local TV station, they are not required to provide airtime for me to express my opinion.

Related to this discussion:

• If I am part of a group that makes public appearances, and I express a view in an appearance that the rest of the group does not agree with, the group is not required to include me in future public appearances.
• If I or my group expresses views that the hosts of the public events disagree with, they are not required to include my group in future events.

Someone can want the band or the school to exclude this person from future events without wanting this person to be silenced. Someone can want to watch a public event without having an official party of the school doing something they find offensive without being a Nazi or a racist. If anyone said that this girl, or anyone else minority or not, shouldn't be allowed to speak I would argue against such a statement. However, to request that this girl or anyone else not engage in perceived offensive speech while in an official capacity I don't think is improper or racist.

That was not what was intimated. Asking someone to stop the conduct would be one thing, but the implication was something more sinister than that.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I'm not interested in viewing displays of ignorance or hate to my country. Does my stance offend your delicate sensibilities?

It's a time-honored American tradition to make political speech like that when you want change. It doesn't mean someone hates the nation, it means they are making a point.

Part of my patriotism is that I'm proud to be in a country where you can dislike the country. That will likely change in my lifetime as the right wing has begun a marked and concerning shift towards fascism.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

David French says it better than me.

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.nati...1697/donald-trump-nfl-protests-why-they-knelt

But the fans of that fellow are fascists in the mold of Mussolini so what do they care?

 

[RonJohn]

That was not what was intimated. Asking someone to stop the conduct would be one thing, but the implication was something more sinister than that.

I thought he said that he hoped people in charge do what needs to be done. I didn't take that to mean anything violent or anything that would prevent her from expressing opinion away from the group. If he meant it that way, then I do disagree. However, I didn't take it to mean anything violent or sinister.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

It's a time-honored American tradition to make political speech like that when you want change. It doesn't mean someone hates the nation, it means they are making a point.

Part of my patriotism is that I'm proud to be in a country where you can dislike the country. That will likely change in my lifetime as the right wing has begun a marked and concerning shift towards fascism.

You're confusing Trump with the right wing, and I don't think you understand what fascism is based on that comment. For example, Antifa (anti-fascists) are actually fascists.

Trump isn't a fascist, he's just an a-hole with a personality disorder.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

To me, honestly, the difference is lack of consequence. I don't hate cops. At all. One of my best friends is LEO. But we as citizens place a certain amount of trust above what we would give the average citizen because of the training and vetting these men have gone through. If they can't restrain from shooting suspects that pose no threat, ie Philando Castle, they should at the very least be subject to the same penalties as if any of us had just walked up to that kid and shot him in front of his wife and kid. If they can't show a level of discernment that reflects their training, they should suffer the same fate that we would. And I believe the grievance most (including myself) have with the officer involved shootings of PoC isn't about the total number. I wholeheartedly concede that more white people get shot by cops every year than blacks. It's both the historically disproportionate number of people shot AND the lack of any accountability from law enforcement when such shootings occur.

It's a bit ironic that you say the numbers / stats involving this issue don't matter and then you go on to cite a "disproportionate number" as part of your argument. Then when I provide links to details of these incidents you disregard them. Not much point discussing the matter with the closed minded.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

You're confusing Trump with the right wing, and I don't think you understand what fascism is based on that comment. For example, Antifa (anti-fascists) are actually fascists.

Trump isn't a fascist, he's just an a-hole with a personality disorder.

When you get down to the crux of it, fascism is the opposite of communism in that communism is just a material ideology - it has no belief in spirituality whatsoever.

Fascism, while being mostly a materialistic ideology, preserves a spiritual dimension - you must *worship* the state. This becomes easy in post-religious America as people look for a place to direct their need for an idol.

In the post-Baptist south, they've wrapped the cross in the flag and set it up wholesale as their liturgical and devout object of worship.

It's not just distasteful to these folks to sit for the pledge or whatever, it's blasphemous.

This - the idea that the state demands worship - is in my view the crux of fascism. Add in Autarckist, nationalist economic policies and you've basically got what Mussolini had going in the 20s.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

When you get down to the crux of it, fascism is the opposite of communism in that communism is just a material ideology - it has no belief in spirituality whatsoever.

Fascism, while being mostly a materialistic ideology, preserves a spiritual dimension - you must *worship* the state. This becomes easy in post-religious America as people look for a place to direct their need for an idol.

In the post-Baptist south, they've wrapped the cross in the flag and set it up wholesale as their liturgical and devout object of worship.

It's not just distasteful to these folks to sit for the pledge or whatever, it's blasphemous.

This - the idea that the state demands worship - is in my view the crux of fascism. Add in Autarckist, nationalist economic policies and you've basically got what Mussolini had going in the 20s.

I'm not seeing anybody say folks need to worship the state. I don't agree fully with their objection to the protests, but it's about just not being disrespectful - not worshipping. Furthermore, part of fascism is control of industry and commerce - that's again the opposite of small government. Calling someone a fascist or racist is hip these days, but often used incorrectly.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I'm not seeing anybody say folks need to worship the state. I don't agree fully with their objection to the protests, but it's about just not being disrespectful - not worshipping. Furthermore, part of fascism is control of industry and commerce - that's again the opposite of small government. Calling someone a fascist or racist is hip these days, but often used incorrectly.

It's viewed as more than disrespectful. It's viewed as blasphemous. Look at the level of devotion/invective involved.

Anecdotally, I had a fellow at a bar counter just yesterday opine that these protestors should just be mass incarcerated. That's not a minority viewpoint in the post-Baptist Appalachian region. I have family members who would probably agree with that fellow.

Also the small government folks sure do sign a different tune when it's the military-industrial complex with revolving door lobbyist access, cable communications monopolies with revolving door FCC access (state control?), etc.

 

[RonJohn]

Fascism /ˈfæʃɪzəm/ is a form of radical authoritariannationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce,[3] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.

Much more like Soviet communism than capitalism when you look at actual definitions.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk